Do we still abide by the laws of the Old Testament?

[james1523]

The answer is yes and no. The written laws of Moses, the old testament in its entirety, for Gentiles applies only where it matches the law written on the conscience of man's heart. (Romans 2:11-16).
The written Law of Moses was never given to Gentiles (Romans 2:12), but to Jews, so Jews are judged by the finer details in the written law. Of course, the Jews also have a conscience and were expected to obey the law from the heart, as well as keep the finer details. That is, there is no law about temple sacrifices applying to unbelieving gentiles, but the laws about murder, adultery, idols, etc, definitely apply.

Regarding Romans 8:1-2:
Romans 8:1-2,"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death."

Paul is not really talking about being set free from the law of Moses or old testament but the "law of sin and death" which is the weakness of fallen man, that we are unable to keep God's holy laws and so invariably fall into sin. The written law of Moses and the law of sin and death in the fallen nature of man works together to produce death. But the law of the Spirit of life sets us free from this law, and this law of life is the principle that if we set our mind and hearts on God Himself and drink of the Spirit, He will give us life to our minds and bodies and we will have the power to overcome sin and death.

 

[DHC]

Hello all.

The topic of this thread is "Do we still abide by the laws of the O.T".

This question when understood actually means, should Gentile Christians be placed
under the ten commandments?

I find this topic fascinating, it never fails to generate discussion. Legalism
was discussed way back in the infancy of the church according to the book
of Acts. Then as it still does today, legalism generates debate.

Acts 15
5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying,
“It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter.
7 After there had been much debate...

Which group raised the issue of circumcision and the Law of Moses?

 

[B-A-C]

I find it interesting, in both the Hebrew Old Testament, and the Greek New Testament,
Two different words are used for Law and Commandments.
For example in verses like Matt 5:17;

G3551
νόμος
nomos
nom'-os
From a primary word νέμω nemō (to parcel out, especially food or grazing to animals); law (through the idea of prescriptive usage), generally (regulation), specifically (of Moses [including the volume]; also of the Gospel), or figuratively (a principle): - law.

It is "the law"

In verses like Matt 19:17;
G1785
ἐντολή
entolē
en-tol-ay'
From G1781; injunction, that is, an authoritative prescription: - commandment, precept.

It is "commandment".

Although some churches preach the commandments and the law are the same thing. I wonder why the Bible uses two different words.
The reason this is important is because I see several verses that say we are not under "nomos". Such as Rom 6:14; and Gal 5:18;
Yet I do not see a single verse in the Bible that says we are not under "entolē", in fact every verse I could about keeping or not being under entole all say.. we are supposed to keep entole.
Example verses of this are.... Matt 19:17; John 14:15; John 15:10; 1 Jn 2:4; Rev 14:12; etc..,

So is the difference between a commandment and a law?
A commandment is something we are told to do or not do. ( Don't drive over 55 mph, don't steal )
The law is the penalty for breaking a commandment ( sacrifice a goat, confess to priest, stone the adulteress, excommunicate the thief ) etc....

The truth is we are unable to obey the commandments 100%. But the law will be enforced 100% by God.
The wages of sin is death. Someone will die. Either you, or someone will have to take the place of you. But either way, that law is still in effect.

 

[sergent]

Very Interesting. So does the Gal 5:3 speak of physical or spiritual circumcision?

 

[Boanerges]

Hello all.

The topic of this thread is "Do we still abide by the laws of the O.T".

This question when understood actually means, should Gentile Christians be placed
under the ten commandments?

I find this topic fascinating, it never fails to generate discussion. Legalism
was discussed way back in the infancy of the church according to the book
of Acts. Then as it still does today, legalism generates debate.

Acts 15
5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying,
“It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter.
7 After there had been much debate...

Which group raised the issue of circumcision and the Law of Moses?

Amen x 10!

so to answer the question "Do we still abide by the laws of the O.T" - sadly some do.

 

[B-A-C]

so to answer the question "Do we still abide by the laws of the O.T" - sadly some do.

And others... continue in lying, cheating, stealing, adultery and homosexuality and say it isn't sin.

Legalism
was discussed way back in the infancy of the church according to the book
of Acts. Then as it still does today, legalism generates debate.

So were sin and licentoiusness.

 

[Boanerges]

Yet those are two different groups of people.

The holiest folks I have ever met are the ones who understand the power of His grace and walk close to His heart.

 

[Boanerges]

The Word makes it so clear. Not the stone tablets given Moses, but walking in the power of the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:3

(ABP+) being manifestedG5319 thatG3754 you areG1510.2.5 [2letterG1992 1Christ's]G5547 servedG1247 byG5259 us,G1473 having been writtenG1449 notG3756 with ink,G3188 butG235 by spiritG4151 of the living God;G2316 G2198 notG3756 onG1722 tabletsG4109 of stones,G3035 butG235 onG1722 [2tabletsG4109 3of the heartG2588 1fleshly].G4560

(ABP-G+) φανερουμενοιG5319 οτιG3754 εστεG1510.2.5 επιστοληG1992 χριστουG5547 διακονηθεισαG1247 υφ΄G5259 ημωνG1473 εγγεγραμμενηG1449 ουG3756 μελανιG3188 αλλαG235 πνευματιG4151 θεου ζωντοςG2316 G2198 ουκG3756 ενG1722 πλαξιG4109 λιθιναιςG3035 αλλ΄G235 ενG1722 πλαξιG4109 καρδιαςG2588 σαρκιναιςG4560

(ASV) being made manifest that ye are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in tables that are hearts of flesh.

(BBE) For you are clearly a letter of Christ, the fruit of our work, recorded not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in stone, but in hearts of flesh.

(Bishops) Forasmuche as ye declare that ye are the epistle of Christ ministred by vs, and written, not with ynke, but with the spirite of the lyuyng God, not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.

(CEV) You are like a letter written by Christ and delivered by us. But you are not written with pen and ink or on tablets made of stone. You are written in our hearts by the Spirit of the living God.

(Darby) being manifested to be Christ's epistle ministered by us, written, not with ink, but the Spirit of the living God; not on stone tables, but on fleshy tables of the heart.

(DRB) Being manifested, that you are the epistle of Christ, ministered by us, and written: not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God: not in tables of stone but in the fleshly tables of the heart.

(EMTV) being made known that you are the letter of Christ, which was ministered by us, having been written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not in tablets of stone but in tablets of flesh, namely in hearts.

(ERV) You show that you are a letter from Christ that he sent through us. This letter is not written with ink but with the Spirit of the living God. It is not written on stone tablets but on human hearts.

(ESV) And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

(Geneva) In that yee are manifest, to be the Epistle of Christ, ministred by vs, and written, not with yncke, but with the Spirite of the liuing God, not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.

(GNB) It is clear that Christ himself wrote this letter and sent it by us. It is written, not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, and not on stone tablets but on human hearts.

(GNT) φανερούμενοι ὅτι ἐστὲ ἐπιστολὴ Χριστοῦ διακονηθεῖσα ὑφ᾿ ἡμῶν, ἐγγεγραμμένη οὐ μέλανι, ἀλλὰ Πνεύματι Θεοῦ ζῶντος, οὐκ ἐν πλαξὶ λιθίναις, ἀλλὰ ἐν πλαξὶ καρδίαις σαρκίναις.

(GNT-BYZ+) φανερουμενοιG5319 V-PPP-NPM οτιG3754 CONJ εστεG1510 V-PAI-2P επιστοληG1992 N-NSF χριστουG5547 N-GSM διακονηθεισαG1247 V-APP-NSF υφG5259 PREP ημωνG1473 P-1GP εγγεγραμμενηG1449 V-RPP-NSF ουG3756 PRT-N μελανιG3188 A-DSN αλλαG235 CONJ πνευματιG4151 N-DSN θεουG2316 N-GSM ζωντοςG2198 V-PAP-GSM ουκG3756 PRT-N ενG1722 PREP πλαξινG4109 N-DPF λιθιναιςG3035 A-DPF αλλG235 CONJ ενG1722 PREP πλαξινG4109 N-DPF καρδιαιςG2588 N-DPF σαρκιναιςG4560 A-DPF

(GNT-TR) φανερουμενοι οτι εστε επιστολη χριστου διακονηθεισα υφ ημων εγγεγραμμενη ου μελανι αλλα πνευματι θεου ζωντος ουκ εν πλαξιν λιθιναις αλλ εν πλαξιν καρδιας σαρκιναις

(GNT-TR+) φανερουμενοιG5319 V-PPP-NPM οτιG3754 CONJ εστεG1510 V-PAI-2P επιστοληG1992 N-NSF χριστουG5547 N-GSM διακονηθεισαG1247 V-APP-NSF υφG5259 PREP ημωνG1473 P-1GP εγγεγραμμενηG1449 V-RPP-NSF ουG3756 PRT-N μελανιG3188 A-DSN αλλαG235 CONJ πνευματιG4151 N-DSN θεουG2316 N-GSM ζωντοςG2198 V-PAP-GSM ουκG3756 PRT-N ενG1722 PREP πλαξινG4109 N-DPF λιθιναιςG3035 A-DPF αλλG235 CONJ ενG1722 PREP πλαξινG4109 N-DPF καρδιαςG2588 N-GSF σαρκιναιςG4560 A-DPF

(GNT-V) φανερουμενοι οτι εστε επιστολη χριστου διακονηθεισα υφ ημων εγγεγραμμενη ου μελανι αλλα πνευματι θεου ζωντος ουκ εν πλαξιν λιθιναις αλλ εν πλαξιν BAκαρδιαις TSκαρδιας σαρκιναις

(GNT-WH+) φανερουμενοιG5319 V-PPP-NPM οτιG3754 CONJ εστεG1510 V-PAI-2P επιστοληG1992 N-NSF χριστουG5547 N-GSM διακονηθεισαG1247 V-APP-NSF υφG5259 PREP ημωνG1473 P-1GP εγγεγραμμενηG1449 V-RPP-NSF ουG3756 PRT-N μελανιG3188 A-DSN αλλαG235 CONJ πνευματιG4151 N-DSN θεουG2316 N-GSM ζωντοςG2198 V-PAP-GSM ουκG3756 PRT-N ενG1722 PREP πλαξινG4109 N-DPF λιθιναιςG3035 A-DPF αλλG235 CONJ ενG1722 PREP πλαξινG4109 N-DPF καρδιαιςG2588 N-DPF σαρκιναιςG4560 A-DPF

(GW) It's clear that you are Christ's letter, written as a result of our ministry. You are a letter written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, a letter written not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

(HNT) כי בידוע שאתם אגרת המשיח ערוכה על־ידי שרותנו כתובה לא בדיו כי אם־ברוח אלהים חיים ולא על־לוחות אבן כי אם־על־לוחות בשר לוחות הלב׃

(ISV) You are demonstrating that you are the Messiah's letter, produced by our service, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

(KJV) Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

(KJV+) Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declaredG5319 to(G3754) beG2075 the epistleG1992 of ChristG5547 ministeredG1247 byG5259 us,G2257 writtenG1449 notG3756 with ink,G3188 butG235 with the SpiritG4151 of the livingG2198 God;G2316 notG3756 inG1722 tablesG4109 of stone,G3035 butG235 inG1722 fleshyG4560 tablesG4109 of the heart.G2588

(KJV-1611) Forasmuch as yee are manifestly declared to be the Epistle of Christ ministred by vs, written not with inke, but with the spirit of the liuing God, not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

(KJV-BRG) Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

(LEB) revealing that you are a letter of Christ, delivered by us, inscribed not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on stone tablets but on tablets of human hearts.

(LITV) it having been made plain that you are Christ's letter, served by us, not having been inscribed by ink, but by the Spirit of the living God, not in tablets of stone, but in fleshly tablets of the heart.

(MKJV) it having been made plain that you are the epistle of Christ, ministered by us, not having been written with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not on tablets of stone, but in fleshly tablets of the heart.

(Murdock) For ye know that ye are an epistle of the Messiah, ministered by us; not written with ink, but by the Spirit of the living God; not on tables of stone, but on the tablets of the heart of flesh.

(RV) being made manifest that ye are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in tables that are hearts of flesh.

(Vamvas) και φανερόνεσθε ότι είσθε επιστολή Χριστού, γενομένη διά της διακονίας ημών, εγγεγραμμένη ουχί με μελάνην, αλλά με το Πνεύμα του Θεού του ζώντος, ουχί εις πλάκας λιθίνας, αλλ' εις πλάκας σαρκίνας της καρδίας.

(Webster) Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not on tables of stone, but on fleshly tables of the heart.

(WNT) For all can see that you are a letter of Christ entrusted to our care, and written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the ever-living God--and not on tablets of stone, but on human hearts as tablets.

(YLT) manifested that ye are a letter of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not in the tablets of stone, but in fleshy tablets of the heart,

 

[B-A-C]

Of course all of those verses are about how we RECEIVE salvation (by grace, not works) through our faith.
Which is different from how we walk the walk AFTER we are saved. (faith without works is dead).

 

[bgsda]

Ok why so much confusion, I mean see we are like the Jews and Catholics of old(nothing against them just uding them as examples). In Jesus day the Jews were die hard believers of what they were taught. They knew the Bible from begginning to end, ex) Nicodemus, Saul(before he became Paul) yet Jesus the Lord and Savior who all Scripture points too was right there in their mist and yet they missed what He was saying.

The Catholics back in the Reformation were pretty much the only ones w/Bibles yet they were only going by what they were taught as well.

Sad but true many, many sincere Christians do the same without using common sense. Ok who reading this on this thread can honestly tell me that :
1) I can have other gods
2)I can make idols and worship them
3)I can use the Lords name in vain(talk bad about Jesus
4)Keep any day other than the seventh day Gid told us to keep holy
5)Disrespect our parents
6) Kill or murder anyone at anytime
7)Sleep w/anyones spouse we choose when we feel like it
8)Steal anything you like when you feel like it
9)Lie, lie and keep lieying
10) covet anything that belongs to someone else, whether its your neighbors wife,car,tv,etc
Now who can tell me that we are allowed to do those things today and be in right standing w/Our Lord and Savior. I dont mean to make a mistake and ask for forgiveness or if you are battling something there that I wrote, thats different because the Lord can give u the victory over any sin. But i mean deliberatly continue to do any i,tose things i wrote and be called a Christian or Christ like.

 

[B-A-C]

Now who can tell me that we are allowed to do those things today and be in right standing w/Our Lord and Savior.

Exactly. Who can say they've never sinned at all since they've become a Christian? ..and if you did sin... how did you know it was a sin?
Rom 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
1 Jn 1:8; If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1 Jn 2:1; Followers who are new to the faith, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
As far as all that goes... who can say they never sinned BEFORE they were a Christian?
If you didn't sin, why do you need to be saved by Jesus?
If you did sin, how do you know you sinned?

 

[DHC]

Exactly. Who can say they've never sinned at all since they've become a Christian? ..and if you did sin... how did you know it was a sin?
Rom 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
1 Jn 1:8; If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1 Jn 2:1; Followers who are new to the faith, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
As far as all that goes... who can say they never sinned BEFORE they were a Christian?
If you didn't sin, why do you need to be saved by Jesus?
If you did sin, how do you know you sinned?

Hello B-A-C.

Talking the talk and walking the walk, seems to be the subject of nearly all New Testament letters.

So firstly, how do we talk the Christian talk?

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”;
and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

We talk by the Spirit of God, in the Spirit at all times, we hold the confession that Jesus is Lord and our Salvation.
We hold to the declaration that salvation is found in none other than Jesus Christ.
That is the Gospel the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Now for the deep mystery of the Christian walk itself. We rely not on our righteousness
but on the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Hence, we walk not according to the thoughts
of our fleshly minds. We have been given the mind of Christ! Thus our walk is gentle, pure, patient and above all in love.

Our walk is not a march to the sound of a legal, earthly drum beat. It is the walk of the Holy Spirit, we are spiritual,
new creations, old things have passed away. We are no longer of the earth, we are heavenly, from above.

2 Corinthians 6:6
in purity, in knowledge, in patience, in kindness, in the Holy Spirit, in genuine love.

This is the fruit of the spirit, this is from above.

Titus 3:5
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness,
but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit.

The regeneration or the walk if you wish is purely the work of the Holy Spirit.
Deeds we perform in righteousness Do Not Save Us.

Isaiah 61:10
I will rejoice greatly in the Lord, My soul will exult in my God; For He has clothed me with garments of salvation,
He has wrapped me with a robe of righteousness.

Once again our righteousness is from above, the righteousness of Christ.
Not our own righteousness. We are clothed in Christ.

Jeremiah 33:16
In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will dwell in safety;
and this is the name by which she will be called: the Lord is our righteousness.

The Lord Jesus Christ is our walk for He is alone the righteous one.
Jesus will tell you when to turn left or right.

Titus 3:5
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness,
but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit.

The start of the Christian life and the end is a regeneration only in and of the Holy Spirit.

The law is made for the unrighteous not for the righteous.

 

[B-A-C]

The law is made for the unrighteous not for the righteous.

That includes those who call themselves Christians.

He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness,
but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit.

No one is disputing how we get saved in the first place.

in purity, in knowledge, in patience, in kindness, in the Holy Spirit, in genuine love.

Who are we supposed to have patience, kindness and love for? Ourselves? Or our neighbors? If we love our neighbors are we keeping a commandment?

Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”;
and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

This is true, but even though you call him Lord doesn't mean you are saved.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
The Spirit can make the unrighteous do things as well.
1 Sam 11:6; Then the Spirit of God came upon Saul mightily when he heard these words, and he became very angry.

Finally, all this is great if you are saved. But what do we need to be saved from? What did we do in order to need to be saved in the first place?

 

[spirit1st]

Heb_12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

2Co_3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

2Co_3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:


2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Heb_9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.


Heb_8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Everyone died under the old testament 100% Even our LORD died because of the law.
The law kills All.
The new Testament gives Eternal life to all willing to accept Him and it .

People do not want to live by Faith. They cannot see Faith. That why they preach works and tithing.

They Fear people will no longer give or work . But the truth is ? People will always do more out of LOVE than they ever could out of Force.

the Law was Force. The old Priesthood was Levi, The new is Judah. We are the New Priests. Those born of GOD.

 

[DHC]

Finally, all this is great if you are saved. But what do we need to be saved from? What did we do in order to need to be saved in the first place?

Hello B-A-C.

You asked two outstanding questions and I will answer your two questions.

In fact B-A-C, I will answer your two questions using only two quotations.

Your first question is and I will quote you.

"But what do we need to be saved from?"

To answer this question is to plumb the very depths of the scripture.

Romans 5
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.

Romans 5
18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

Paul states that 'one transgression' condemned humanity because death and sin spread to all men!

The meaning of 'transgression' in the context, is the failure by one man
to obey a singular verbal instruction by God. The 'one transgression'
never was a breach of any written, legal, national law of Israel.

I am interested in your theology B-A-C, how would you answer
your own questions?

 

[B-A-C]

Romans 5
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.

Romans 5
18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

So the only sin we can do is be born? Lying, stealing, adultery, child molesting, murder aren't sin?
What the verses above mean, is that because we are human, we sin. Sin is human nature. We are born when the desire to sin. Being born isn't a sin.
Sin is the things we do after we are old enough to know right from wrong and do wrong anyway.
Some of us are born with a desire to drink alcohol,some with the desire to lie, some with the desire to be homosexual, some with the desire to steal, etc...
This is what being born into sin means.

I am interested in your theology B-A-C, how would you answer
your own questions?

It's easy, we sin by breaking the commandments. Lying, stealing, cheating, envying, murdering, etc...
The reason we know it's sin is because the Bible says it is.

Usually when the Bible is talking about "the flesh" it is talking about the sinful nature of man.
Rom 8:4; so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:13; for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Gal 5:16; But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
Gal 5:17; For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21; envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I answered your question. Your turn.
Is murder or adultery a sin? Or is being born the only sin we can commit?

 

[DHC]

I answered your question. Your turn.
Is murder or adultery a sin? Or is being born the only sin we can commit?

Hello B-A-C.

I remember that I did ask for your theology and you certainly gave me your theology.

Your question is, "Is murder or adultery a sin? Or is being born the only sin we can commit?"

Whether you commit murder or adultery or both is irrevelant B-A-C.

You will die anyway whether you commit the above offences or not.

Romans 5
18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men,

Condemnation is for all mankind purely through the one offence.
All flesh was corrupted, the image was corrupted by the one offence.
Eviction from the garden of Eden, eviction from relationship with God.
You were born with the corrupt and sinful status purely because you
are descended from Adam.

Before the law was given to Israel at Mt Sinai, sin and death prevailed.
After the law was given to Israel at Mt Sinai, sin and death prevailed.
In fact B-A-C, you will probably find that sin increased with the advent of the law.

Now reading and quoting the law will not repair the broken image.
Reconciliation to God is not established with or without the law.

Galatians 2
18 For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor.
19 For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.
20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me;
and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Romans 6
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Romans 7
5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law,
were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.

 

[spirit1st]

Our Spirit once Born of GOD perfect seed is stronger than our flesh. But we must walk and live though it . few walk much in it. So they hardly hear the Lord very well or not at all?
they mostly count on there thinking or others ?
and wonder why they are not seeing miracles or others being saved or healed or have so many bad thoughts?

They long from there heart [Spirit] for a closer relationship. yet do nothing to get it?

They do not read the bible much and hardly ever fast or try to study the word with there families. If they do go too church? they feel whatever was taught there was enough for there kids and wife and even themselves.

When the Truth is? God counting on us men to be the spiritual leaders of our homes . Not the guy in church or a book or others/

The problem is in the mirror we look into. That the guilty guy. that the guy satan after and is doing his evil best to keep from being blessed and used ny the Holy Ghost to affect the world for our LORD sake and Glory. We cannot blame others.

Kind of like Adam ? He said it was God fault basically for giving Him the woman. Think many will say? It the wives fault or the preacher or some book they read ?

I have learned it hardly ever anyone else fault for our mistakes. We need to be honest with God and repent and then He will Help us be the man and people He desires to use and bless .

We need to live under the New Covenant and Hear Him and then Obey HIM. Then we will awake each morning looking forward to what wonderful things He going to lead into our lives and how we are going to touch others for good and Have the peace and Joy He has promised each of us one on one.

 

[Boanerges]

Ok why so much confusion, I mean see we are like the Jews and Catholics of old(nothing against them just uding them as examples). In Jesus day the Jews were die hard believers of what they were taught. They knew the Bible from begginning to end, ex) Nicodemus, Saul(before he became Paul) yet Jesus the Lord and Savior who all Scripture points too was right there in their mist and yet they missed what He was saying.

The Catholics back in the Reformation were pretty much the only ones w/Bibles yet they were only going by what they were taught as well.

Sad but true many, many sincere Christians do the same without using common sense. Ok who reading this on this thread can honestly tell me that :
1) I can have other gods
2)I can make idols and worship them
3)I can use the Lords name in vain(talk bad about Jesus
4)Keep any day other than the seventh day Gid told us to keep holy
5)Disrespect our parents
6) Kill or murder anyone at anytime
7)Sleep w/anyones spouse we choose when we feel like it
8)Steal anything you like when you feel like it
9)Lie, lie and keep lieying
10) covet anything that belongs to someone else, whether its your neighbors wife,car,tv,etc
Now who can tell me that we are allowed to do those things today and be in right standing w/Our Lord and Savior. I dont mean to make a mistake and ask for forgiveness or if you are battling something there that I wrote, thats different because the Lord can give u the victory over any sin. But i mean deliberatly continue to do any i,tose things i wrote and be called a Christian or Christ like.

That is completely not the point as is like trying to have the tail wag the dog. We are now to be people of the spirit led and empowered by the Holy Spirit- He leads and guides us in all truth.
Of course we do not do those things as we are led of the Spirit. We no longer need those laws because we now have the fulness of the Holy Spirit dwelling in us. This takes it out of the arena of trying to be good enough to please God and walking in the power, wisdom, and resurrection life He provides.

 

[bgsda]

Sorry guys but here we go again, Jesus dying on the Cross(how very important and crucial His sacrafice was and is) did not just stop there. Many many Christians stop at the Cross.

What did Christ Jesus suffer and died for? Why did He come here in the flesh? You will find these answers when you find out what SIN means! What really is the Biblical definition of SIN? Are we free to sin now that we are"saved and sanctified by the Holy Spirit"? Is our new spirit man telling us to SIN?

Well back to what I said in the first paragraph, so we New Testament Christians are not the only people to be shown the plan of salvation, actually the plan of salvation is not better told than the way God showed it in the Old Testament and NT(Heb chpt 8,9) ny the way of the Sanctuary or Tabernacle. What Jesus did by His Sacrafice was the fulfillment of the outer court. The killing of the Lambs, goats pigeons, etc. He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. As the book of John pud it "the lamb of Hod. So what os He doing now?