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Do we still abide by the laws of the Old Testament?

Instead of responding of everything at this time I will focus on this is that is okay:

Do you really think the Spirit is going to tell us to do something against the commandments? Or do you think he is going to remind us to follow them?
John 14:26; "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
Do you think the Holy Spirit is going to go against Jesus teachings?

I think you may finally be getting my point- LOL
If we are led of the Spirit we are led of Love- Love fulfills those old rules and so much more just by His very own nature. We no longer need written rules when the Holy Spirit leads and guides us in all truth. We do not strive to keep commands, we submit our hearts and walk His way- this is true holiness revealed; this is sanctification manifested; this is Love walking and working in and through His own vessels.

Agree or not, I love you in Christ,
your brother (or perhaps bother) Larry.
 
Good one- circular logic gets you no where my friend. It is like the geologist that dates the fossils by the rock strata and the rock strata by the fossils; it is a dog chasing its tail.

One of the things that you fail to take into account is this; the tripartite nature of man. Our inner man or spirit is recreated in the image of Christ (sinless and perfect) and is eternal, but our outer man is frail and perishes day by day.
Our inner man, redeemed from experiences eternal life; our outer fleshly man still dies ( living on a cursed earth) for the wages of sin was death and death came into the world though sin in the garden.

Where is the circular logic, and to whom are you speaking?

You mention tripartite but only list two parts of man. Inner and Outer. Are you referring to the Holy Spirit as our third part or is there something else in there? Or did I miss something in your post?
 
Instead of responding of everything at this time I will focus on this is that is okay:



I think you may finally be getting my point- LOL
If we are led of the Spirit we are led of Love- Love fulfills those old rules and so much more just by His very own nature. We no longer need written rules when the Holy Spirit leads and guides us in all truth. We do not strive to keep commands, we submit our hearts and walk His way- this is true holiness revealed; this is sanctification manifested; this is Love walking and working in and through His own vessels.

Agree or not, I love you in Christ,
your brother (or perhaps bother) Larry.

I think I now understand your view point on this. You are not saying it is impossible to sin for Christians, but that we should not be striving to follow the rules. Rather we should be striving to walk with God and in His ways, changing our focus on to Him and not the things we try not to do.
At first when I read what you and DHC were writing, was that it was impossible for believers to sin at all. Thanks for posting that. I agree with what you wrote.
Just to clarify and make sure we are on the same page:
1) It is possible for a believer to sin, non-habitually
2) The sin can be confessed and forgiven
3) Neither of the above will bar you from the Kingdom of God, if you have believed and repented accepting Christ as your Savior
4) We should be striving to be in fellowship with God and His will and not focus on the law we are freed from

Hopefully, that is what you are stating. I know I really simplified it, but sometimes I think people are saying something different.
 
Amen to all of those points my friend.
We walk in fellowship, union, and communion with the Holy Spirit. The Life of the Vine is expressed through us and we reflect His glory,= and His character.
 
Amen to all of those points my friend.
We walk in fellowship, union, and communion with the Holy Spirit. The Life of the Vine is expressed through us and we reflect His glory,= and His character.
Precisely. As I answered in another thread...the growth of fruit and the experiential practical changes in lifestyle and behaviour is a natural consequence of abiding in the vine. Our growth and the maturing of fruit is inevitable so long as we
1. Believe
2. Focus on our relationship with Jesus.
3. Cease from striving.
 
Yes the Holy Ghost will tell us something against the commandments. Because of out of LOVE and Faith we can break some?

Once a guy who had killed 11 people had a gun on me and was trying to kill me. Because I told Him that one day He was going to be before the LORD and a big angels was going to dump Him in the lake of fire.

The Lord told me I could take that gun away from Him and shoot Him. I said , in my mind LORD I do not want too kill anyone.
One of the ten is thou shall not kill.
Later that same guy killed another man. An innocent guy for no reason ,just for fun. I thought about it lots ,If I had taken the gun and killed Him? This guy would have lived and maybe others ? I only know about that one guy because it was on the front page of the paper .

I try not to ever argue ,But this is truth .
There has been killings all though the bible and God has told others to kill. He Himself and taken lots of lives. He even takes His own children lives at times? Some out of LOVE and some who refuse too obey and shame our LORD JESUS.

We need to be careful and make sure it the LORD telling us to do anything?
We are not as we appear weak little beings with no power. We have GOD own spirit [Power ] with us and we can conqueror whatever He wants us too. I know this is 100% truth. But we must be Led by His Holy Ghost and step out in faith .
 
That is a simple misunderstanding of the original language, the word used for kill in the Old Testament was this:
From the Vines Expository Dictionary of the Old Testament-
rashach (H7523), "to kill, murder, slay

A literal translation was thou shalt not murder. The Old Testament obviously gave plenty of situations where killing was justified or prescribed.
 
Matt 19:16; And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?"
Matt 19:17; And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to have eternal life, keep the commandments."
Matt 19:18; Then he *said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS;
Matt 19:19; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

Mark 10:17; As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
Mark 10:18; And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
Mark 10:19; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"

Luke 18:18; A ruler questioned Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
Luke 18:19; And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
Luke 18:20; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"

John 12:48; "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
John 12:49; "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
John 12:50; "I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."

1 Jn 2:6; the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
John 15:10; "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
1 Jn 3:24; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

John 15:10; "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
John 15:11; "These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.
John 15:12; "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.
John 15:13; "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.
John 15:14 "You are My friends if you do what I command you.
John 15:17; "This I command you, that you love one another.

1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1 Jn 5:2; By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
 
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Heb_7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

1Th_5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

1Ti_1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.


1Ti_6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
2Ti_1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.


Eph_3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,


Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
 
Heb_7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

And what do you think this change is?

Heb 7:11; Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12; For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.
Heb 7:13; For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar.
Heb 7:14; For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.
Heb 7:15; And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek,

Was this change that someone no longer had to be of the lineage of Aaron? (biologically/physically)
Exo 28:1; "Then bring near to yourself Aaron your brother, and his sons with him, from among the sons of Israel, to minister as priest to Me--Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.

Heb 7:16; who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life.
Heb 7:17; For it is attested of Him, "YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK."

Heb 9:25; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.
Heb 9:26; Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
 
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We are Now the Priests, Higher than any priests of the old testament. Priests after and under like our LORD LORD JESUS.

1Pe_2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:


Royal meaning of His kingdom. No longer of this world. But the eternal Kingdom .

Joh_17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh_17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Eph_1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Eph_2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Eph_3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

We might not fully understand. But We are Anointed by God to rule and win.

It will not take away the fact of our place in his Kingdom , even if ewe do not understand it now?

Kind of like when our LORD was a mere baby. He did not know He was Creator . yet was.

Rom_8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

But we are ALWAYS under our LORD JESUS. after all He is our Creator .

2Pe_1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Until we are able to live it ? He not going to reveal it to us.

1Co_2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
 
We are Now the Priests, Higher than any priests of the old testament. Priests after and under like our LORD LORD JESUS.

1Pe_2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Keep in mind, Peter was the apostle to the Jews. However in this case I agree with you. So just like the OT, there are priests, and a high priest in the NT.
So what exactly was the reason for this? What did a priest do? What did a high priest do? (Yet another reason to read the OT) but some of is explained in
Heb 7:27-28; and Heb 8:3-4; I'll give you a hint, it had to do with sin.

Heb 8:10; But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be My people.

As for the Gentiles of the OT.
Exod 12:37; That night the people of Israel left Rameses and started for Succoth. There were about 600,000 men, plus all the women and children.
Exod 12:38; A rabble of non-Israelites went with them, along with great flocks and herds of livestock.

So when the Israelites left Egypt, some non-Israelites went with them.

Exod 12:39; For bread they baked flat cakes from the dough without yeast they had brought from Egypt. It was made without yeast because the people were driven out of Egypt in such a hurry that they had no time to prepare the bread or other food.
Exod 12:40; The people of Israel had lived in Egypt for 430 years.
Exod 12:41; In fact, it was on the last day of the 430th year that all the LORD's forces left the land.
Exod 12:42; On this night the LORD kept His promise to bring His people out of the land of Egypt. So this night belongs to Him, and it must be commemorated every year by all the Israelites, from generation to generation.
Exod 12:43; Then the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "These are the instructions for the festival of Passover. No outsiders are allowed to eat the Passover meal.

NO non-Jews were allowed to eat the Passover meal, unless...
Exod 12:44; But any slave who has been purchased may eat it if he has been circumcised.
Exod 12:45; Temporary residents and hired servants may not eat it.

Exod 12:46; Each Passover lamb must be eaten in one house. Do not carry any of its meat outside, and do not break any of its bones.
Exod 12:47; The whole community of Israel must celebrate this Passover festival.
Exod 12:48; "If there are foreigners living among you who want to celebrate the LORD's Passover, let all their males be circumcised. Only then may they celebrate the Passover with you like any native-born Israelite. But no uncircumcised male may ever eat the Passover meal.
Exod 12:49; This instruction applies to everyone, whether a native-born Israelite or a foreigner living among you."

We see the law (circumcision in this case) applied to everyone who wanted to partake of the passover. Gentiles and Jews had to be circumcised.

Exod 12:50; So all the people of Israel followed all the LORD's commands to Moses and Aaron.
Exod 12:51; On that very day the LORD brought the people of Israel out of the land of Egypt like an army.

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Even before these people went into the promised land (Canaan which is Israel) the law applied to the Gentiles.

Jos 8:32; And as the Israelites watched, Joshua copied onto the stones of the altar the instructions Moses had given them.
Jos 8:33; Then all the Israelites—foreigners and native-born alike—along with the elders, officers, and judges, were divided into two groups. One group stood in front of Mount Gerizim, the other in front of Mount Ebal. Each group faced the other, and between them stood the Levitical priests carrying the Ark of the LORD's Covenant. This was all done according to the commands that Moses, the servant of the LORD, had previously given for blessing the people of Israel.
Jos 8:34; Joshua then read to them all the blessings and curses Moses had written in the Book of Instruction.
Jos 8:35; Every word of every command that Moses had ever given was read to the entire assembly of Israel, including the women and children and the foreigners who lived among them.

...hmmmm.. EVERY command....

We see in the NT, that the Jewish religious leaders (Pharisee's) still expected Gentiles to become circumcised under the old testament law, and "follow the laws of Moses".
Acts 15:5; But then some of the believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and insisted, "The Gentile converts must be circumcised and required to follow the law of Moses."

Even though physical circumcision is no longer required, Paul recognized this law of the old Testament.
Acts 16:3; so Paul wanted him to join them on their journey. In deference to the Jews of the area, he arranged for Timothy to be circumcised before they left, for everyone knew that his father was a Greek.

So Timothy was a Gentile, Paul had him circumcised (not because Jesus requires it) but because it kept peace with the Jews who expected Gentiles to be circumcised.

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Gal 2:16; nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
Gal 3:11; Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

In order to be justified under the law, you have to follow it 100%.
Gal 5:3; And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
Jas 2:10; For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

99.9999% isn't good enough. It has to be 100%. But who has never lied in their life? Who has never thought a lustful thought?
Who has never thought someone they know "was good for nothing"? Who has never committed sin besides Jesus?
None of us will be able to stand before God and say we kept the WHOLE law 100%. None of us will be justified by the law.
Even if 99% was good enough, who would be able to say they kept it 99% of the time? Sometimes we sin 30% of the time, some people 40% of the time,
maybe on a really bad day we sin 70 or 80 percent. This is where Jesus and grace comes in. Jesus covers that 50% for us, or the 60%, or whatever we need today.
We are no longer under the law (IF we are lead of the Spirit) we are under grace. Grace doesn't mean sin all you want. Grace means if we do sin, Jesus has us covered.
Rom 6:1; What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
Rom 6:15; What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

The more we sin, the more grace Jesus has to give us. Jesus didn't abolish the law, he came to fulfill it.
Matt 5:17; "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
Luke 16:17; "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail.
 
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We are Now the Priests, Higher than any priests of the old testament. Priests after and under like our LORD LORD JESUS.

1Pe_2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

And why are we priests? What does it mean to be a priest? What do priests do? Where is the temple where we serve as priests? Why do we need to be priests if Jesus is the great High priest?
 
I would suggest B-A-C that the gentile hangers on among the Israelites not only in the wilderness but also throughout the subsequent residence in Cannan were subject to the same laws as Israel. Including the Sabbath law of the 4th commandment.

Isaiah 56:1 ¶ Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 ¶ Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto hem will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Now compare....

Acts 13:42 ¶ And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.



God never, again I say never intended for israel to be an isolationist and to keep God and His laws to themselves. God's blessings and salvation were always for the entire planet. Israel failed utterly in their work in sharing truth with their neighbours, and instead were sucked in by their pagan practices repeatedly. To claim that God's Ten Commandments (His moral standard code of conduct for all people for all time) were solely for Israel is extrememly short sighted and do God a disservice. They wre given to israel, yes, but not to keep for themselves....the gospel...that is God's plan of salvation for mankind, was always something to be shared. Always.
 
There is only one High priest in the New testament .Jesus Christ . The Only other eternal priests are us .Those born of GOD SEED. The Elect.

Heb_4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Jesus Christ changed the law and Priesthood. He Now dealing with Mankind in a eternal way. No longer in the flesh.
Because we Cannot please GOD in the flesh. No matter how hard we try?
Man still trying to please in a carnal type way. thinking that good enough for HIM.
It not.
That why we only please Him though our Heart [Spirit].

Rom_8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Gal_3:12 And the law is not of faith

Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.



Rom_1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son


Acts of pure LOVE. Not acts of obeying the old laws.
Our carnal thinking leads us to think it good if we do anything to help others in any way , no matter what Our true motives or reasons are?
But unless it out of faith and Love it worthless.

Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


Rom_9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Rom_14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

We are Not going to be doing Evil junk if we LOVE.
 
When Jesus came he broke tradition of the old testament. Of course we still need to abide by the commandments and take heed to the mistakes and lessons in every story in the old testament. But we no longer need to make sacrifices and follow certain traditions back then because Jedus was the ultimate sacrifice. All we must do now is follow him
 
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