Do we still abide by the laws of the Old Testament?

[james1523]

Jesus fulfilled all the types and symbols in the temple, including the ark of the covenant and the 10 commandments written on stone tablets. So now all these commandments are in His person. If we have and live by His person then we have the commandments. Having and living by His person is otherwise known as living and walking in the Spirit of Christ, which was what Paul's ministry was all about.

 

[B-A-C]

Sorry guys but here we go again, Jesus dying on the Cross(how very important and crucial His sacrafice was and is) did not just stop there. Many many Christians stop at the Cross.

Once upon a time the sins we committed separated us from God.
Isa 59:2; But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.
Rom 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So there was this huge gap between man and God, man was sinful, God was Holy, so how do we bridge this gap?
John 1:29; The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
.
So Jesus is the "bridge" that fills the gap between man and God. In fact he is the ONLY bridge.
John 14:6; Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

This bridge that Jesus built is finished.
John 19:30; Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.
Jesus did his part.

Now we have to do ours. The Christian walk is a journey. You don't just step on the bridge, you have to walk to the other side.
I've heard sermons that say something like "Jesus does it ALL, and he will not let us take credit for any part of this walk, he wants all the Glory for himself". As far as I am concerned this is a lie straight from the pit.
Jesus is worthy, Jesus deserved the Glory, yes I don't dispute that. But as for him not wanting to do our part.... I don't see this in the Bible, in fact I see just the opposite.

It takes effort on our part to cross to the other side of this bridge.
1 Jn 2:13; I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father.
Rom 12:21; Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Heb 11:17; By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;
Php 2:12; So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
Rom 8:13; for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
1 Cor 9:27; but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Rev 2:7; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'
Rev 2:11; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'
Rev 2:17; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.'
Rev 2:26; 'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS;
Rev 3:5; 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
Rev 3:12; 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
Rev 3:21; 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Rev 21:7; "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

Matt 3:10; "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matt 7:19; "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Luke 3:9; "Indeed the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; so every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."
Luke 13:7; "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'

Jas 1:2; Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
Jas 1:3; knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.
Jas 1:4; And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

1 Pet 1:6; In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
1 Pet 1:7; so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1 Thes 3:5; For this reason, when I could endure it no longer, I also sent to find out about your faith, for fear that the tempter might have tempted you, and our labor would be in vain.
Gal 4:11; I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

1 Cor 9:24; Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
1 Cor 9:25; Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
1 Cor 9:26; Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
1 Cor 9:27; but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Jesus did his part, we have to do ours. We will be tested, we will have trials, we will be tempted, we will be disciplined, we will need to bear good fruit. We need to overcome.
Yes Jesus helps us along this journey, yes he send the Helper, (why do we need a helper?) but it is still a journey, and staying on the right path isn't always easy.

Matt 7:13; "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matt 7:14; "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
There are always distractions along the way to try to turn us from the path.
1 Tim 5:15; for some have already turned aside to follow Satan.

Jesus doesn't want people who are standing at the gate waiting for the limousine to come deliver them to the other side all safe and sound. Jesus wants people who work, who are faithful, who use their talents for the kingdom.
Matt 25:21; "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.

To those sitting there waiting for God to do it all, or worse yet thinking it is already done...
Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

John 8:34; Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
Jas 1:15; Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Some people then we are "trying to prove we are good enough for God". Maybe, but maybe we are proving to God, the world and ourselves, that we truly are children of God.
Eph 5:8; for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light
1 Jn 1:6; If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;

Those who think simply beliving Jesus is Lord is enough to get you to heaven are in for a rude awakening.
Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Jas 2:20; But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

Believing in Jesus isn't only what you say, it's also what you do and how you live.

 

[DHC]

Rev 2:7; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'
Rev 2:11; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'
Rev 2:17; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.'
Rev 2:26; 'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS;
Rev 3:5; 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
Rev 3:12; 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
Rev 3:21; 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Rev 21:7; "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

John 16:33
I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.

1 John 5:4
For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

1 John 5:5
Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

1 John 5:4-5
For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God!!!

 

[Boanerges]

John 16:33
I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.

1 John 5:4
For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

1 John 5:5
Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

1 John 5:4-5
For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God!!!

Amen, if we are in Christ our sins are judged in Christ; our works are tried and if they are not His works they are consumed as wood hay and stubble.
If we are not found in Christ then we are judged under the Law.

 

[Boanerges]

Of course all of those verses are about how we RECEIVE salvation (by grace, not works) through our faith.
Which is different from how we walk the walk AFTER we are saved. (faith without works is dead).

I love threads like this- iron sharpens iron. That verse which you refereed to (2 Co 3:3) had nothing to do with how we receive salvation.
But for the sake of argument lets move on the the next section of this chapter:

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Again, the Word of God plainly declares that the Law is not for the believer (done away 2Co3:11). Christ fulfilled the Law because you cannot.
The ones He tells He never knew ( Lord didn't I, Lord didn't I Mat 7:21 - 23) - these are the ones running around doing their own works trying (to fulfill the Law and establish their own righteousness) when the works we are to do are His works (Eph 2:10) which He has prepared for us.

As far as the references I have seen to James and works and not vice verse; true faith always produces works and James carefully listed faith before works: Our works can be burned awy and we will (those in Christ) still find ourselves saved (1Co 3:15).
The Law was for schoolchildren (Gal 4:1 - 7), we are to grow, mature, and walk in the spirit in Christ.


Gal_3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal_3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

 

[Fenn]

Again, the Word of God plainly declares that the Law is not for the believer (done away 2Co3:11). Christ fulfilled the Law because you cannot.
The ones He tells He never knew ( Lord didn't I, Lord didn't I Mat 7:21 - 23) - these are the ones running around doing their own works trying (to fulfill the Law and establish their own righteousness) when the works we are to do are His works (Eph 2:10) which He has prepared for us.

As far as the references I have seen to James and works and not vice verse; true faith always produces works and James carefully listed faith before works: Our works can be burned awy and we will (those in Christ) still find ourselves saved (1Co 3:15).
The Law was for schoolchildren (Gal 4:1 - 7), we are to grow, mature, and walk in the spirit in Christ.

Before I speak I would like to be clear on your point of view.
How do you believe the behavior of a true follower of Christ appears?
Can we still sin under the new covenant or do you believe all sin is done away with, once saved?

 

[DHC]

Before I speak I would like to be clear on your point of view.
How do you believe the behavior of a true follower of Christ appears?
Can we still sin under the new covenant or do you believe all sin is done away with, once saved?

Hello Fenn.

Can a Christian still sin under the New Covenant?

Sin is not possible if the Christian has received the Holy Spirit.
This spiritual reality is not difficult to understand if you think it through.

Galatians 5
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Simple truth, if you follow the conviction of the Spirit you are
not subject to the behavior the law demands. You will far exceed
the behavior that the law dictates.

Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

So it appears that if one has the fruit of the Holy Spirit, there is no law that would apply.

Where there is 'kindness' then there is no theft. Kindness is giving not stealing.

Where there is 'gentleness' there is no murder. Gentle people are not violent.

If you have 'self control' nearly all law is redundant. What possible crime
can one commit if one is able to control one's own nature.

If you are single minded about Loving God and others, then you have fulfilled all law!

Once again the Spirit within, Christ within is the power source of our behavior.

If you really love everyone then you have the very mind of Christ. Perfection!!!

What needs to be stressed above all is that Christian behavior is the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
This is all from above and is derived from following Jesus. We are given the
Spirit when we believe in Jesus, in power, in love, and self discipline.

Love ultimately will only be evident in the lives of those who believe in Jesus Christ.

Faith and Love is the true evidence, the fruit of the Spirit that is God.

If you do sin, God forbid, then you ask Jesus for forgiveness, easy.

 

[Boanerges]

Before I speak I would like to be clear on your point of view.
How do you believe the behavior of a true follower of Christ appears?
Can we still sin under the new covenant or do you believe all sin is done away with, once saved?

The bible declares that a Christian may indeed sin, but that one has an advocate:
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

A believerwho abides in Christ, has life fromthe Vine of Heaven, who is Christ Himself. The life of that Vine should flow freely in to us (the branches) bearing the fruit of heaven itself; we are called to be living extensions of that Vine. This can and will only be apparent when one walks in the Spirit.
Does this answer you ?

 

[Fenn]

Hello Fenn.

Can a Christian still sin under the New Covenant?

Sin is not possible if the Christian has received the Holy Spirit.
This spiritual reality is not difficult to understand if you think it through.
--------
If you do sin, God forbid, then you ask Jesus for forgiveness, easy.

These two statements don't really give the impression that sin is not possible if one has received the Holy Spirit.
Have you, since receiving the Holy Spirit, done anything other than bear fruit? Meaning have you not lied once, got angry once, or lost your patience once?

 

[Fenn]

The bible declares that a Christian may indeed sin, but that one has an advocate:
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

A believerwho abides in Christ, has life fromthe Vine of Heaven, who is Christ Himself. The life of that Vine should flow freely in to us (the branches) bearing the fruit of heaven itself; we are called to be living extensions of that Vine. This can and will only be apparent when one walks in the Spirit.
Does this answer you ?

Yes, this answers my question.
My next question is if we are no longer under the law, then what constitutes as sin?
We have two commandments directly from Jesus Christ that enclose all of the Ten Commandments. It seems like a lot of people in this thread are really close to agreement in meaning, but the words are just different.

 

[DHC]

These two statements don't really give the impression that sin is not possible if one has received the Holy Spirit.
Have you, since receiving the Holy Spirit, done anything other than bear fruit? Meaning have you not lied once, got angry once, or lost your patience once?

Hello Fenn.

Let's see what the scripture says regarding your questions.

1 John 3
5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. (In love perfection is reached!)

Well the scripture does state 'No one who abides in Him sins'

Have I ever committed a sin as a Christian, I think so but I think I have forgotten now.

Please read the following my friend Fenn.

Philippians 3
13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;
16 however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.

'forgetting what lies behind' is the reason I cannot remember.

We press on ahead, full steam ahead damn the torpedoes!

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

Imho ,,,there is no more jew or gentile only WHOSOEVER ,, the law of moses was fullfilled at the cross ,it was the only way we could meet the demands of the law in the form of a blameless sacrafice ....Now we seek the law written on our hearts of Grace mercy and forgiveness ,,Yes we still should strive to meet the first ten but God knew Grace was the only way to do that ......Rev

 

[Boanerges]

Good one- circular logic gets you no where my friend. It is like the geologist that dates the fossils by the rock strata and the rock strata by the fossils; it is a dog chasing its tail.

One of the things that you fail to take into account is this; the tripartite nature of man. Our inner man or spirit is recreated in the image of Christ (sinless and perfect) and is eternal, but our outer man is frail and perishes day by day.
Our inner man, redeemed from experiences eternal life; our outer fleshly man still dies ( living on a cursed earth) for the wages of sin was death and death came into the world though sin in the garden.

 

[spirit1st]

I agree with Boanerges. I flesh is born a sinner and dies a sinner. Our New Creature born of GOD perfect seed cannot ever sin.
The spiritual things are the unseen things . The carnal things are the things we see. Nothing we see is eternal .

We are taught from babies to judge all things by sight. But when Born into His kingdom ? We now judge all things Fist by the Spiritual.
Then the carnal.

2Co_4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Only the things we do in our life time that will be eternal ,will be those things we did out of pure perfect LOVE.

That how we are known to others . And that how we get Rewarded. There is Nothing you can do in this life that more Important than LOVE.

The old testament which was Before our Lord rose from the Dead and sent back the Holy Ghost. No one was born again til He went to New Jerusalem and sent back His Spirit.
Then those He freed from hell and those in the upper room were born again.

You see no one has pure perfect thoughts 100% of the time all there lives. We going to get mad or think some bad thought. It just not possible for this corrupt mind to think prefect thoughts always.

But Our New Creature mind will not accept anything but the Truth. Because ? It the same type mind as our LORD JESUS. Just does not have all the knowledge.
The priesthood and laws are different in the New Testament. He Now called us to a higher calling. a Living sacrifice and endless life. A daily 100% Relationship with Him.

 

[Swoon]

Must know what Ceremonial and moral laws are to know what to keep and what not applies..

 

[Boanerges]

Must know what Ceremonial and moral laws are to know what to keep and what not applies..

The idea that Jesus did away with parts of the Law and not the whole law was created by theologians trying to solidify pet doctrines and there is no solid scriptural support for this.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

This is plainly talking about the Law of Moses being done away with as the the born again ones began (as led of the Spirit and by faith ) to walk in the imparted and imputed righteousness that is in Christ(1Co_1:30 , Php 3:9 ) There can be no improvement on that righteousness.

The Law was a tutor leading us to total dependency on Christ and Christ alone. The whole of Galatians Chapter 4 is devoted to our being free from both ceremonial law and the covenant of Mount Sinai (the stone tablets given Moses).

Is it any coincidence that Sinai itself means sin, or that this was considered the habitation of the moon god allah. or Horeb (destruction) by many in the region? This is where God came down to judge sin and false religion.

From Easton's Bible Dictionary :
Sinai
Of Sin(the moon god), called also Horeb, the name of the mountain district which was reached by the Hebrews in the third month after the Exodus.Hitchocks's Bible Names:
Horeb
desert; solitude; destruction
Thank God we have a New and better covenant written in the blood of Christ (Heb 12:24).

 

[B-A-C]

The idea that Jesus did away with parts of the Law and not the whole law was created by theologians trying to solidify pet doctrines and there is no solid scriptural support for this.

Matt 5:17; "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Jesus didn't come to replace the law, he came to fulfill the law.

Matt 5:18; "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

None of the law goes away "until heaven and earth pass away".

Matt 5:19; "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Whoever annuls (says the law doesn't matter anymore) will be called the least in heaven.

Matt 5:20; "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:21; "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' ( Exod 20:13; )
Matt 5:22; "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Matt 5:27; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY'; ( Exod 20:14; )
Matt 5:28; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Matt 5:33; "Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FALSE VOWS, BUT SHALL FULFILL YOUR VOWS TO THE LORD.' ( Lev 19:12; )
Matt 5:34; "But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,

Matt 5:43; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' ( Lev 19:18; )
Matt 5:44; "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Matt 5:45; so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven;

Matt 5:48; "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Mark 7:10; "For Moses said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'; and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH';
Mark 10:19; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"
Luke 18:20; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'

Eph 6:2; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise),

Actually I think the part about none of the law applies anymore was invented by theologians to support their pet doctrines.

John 14:15; "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

I wonder which commandments he meant? All or none of them? Or some of them?

1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

The new covenant doesn't replace the law. It replaces how the debt of the law is paid.

Heb 10:12; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,
Eph 5:2; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.

The wages of sin, is still death. Sin is still sin, the commandments are still the commandments.

1 Cor 5:7; Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.

What was the leaven spoken of here in 1 Cor 5?
1 Cor 5:1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife.
Yet another commandment ( Lev 18:6-8; )

 

[DHC]

Matt 5:43; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' ( Lev 19:18; )
Matt 5:44; "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Matt 5:45; so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven;

Actually I think the part about none of the law applies anymore was invented by theologians to support their pet doctrines.

Matt 5:43; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' ( Lev 19:18; )
Matt 5:44; "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Not sure if you noticed B-A-C?

The law says to 'hate your enemy', Jesus says to 'Love your enemies'.

Do we follow the legal commandment to hate our enemies or do we follow the commandment of Jesus, to love our enemies?

It is either one or the other, it cannot be both!

To follow Jesus or follow the law?

 

[Boanerges]

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.


For easy viewing and distinction inside your quote my comments are in blue.

Thank God for His Word- it makes things so clear:

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Christ is the end (the full completion) of the Law of Righetousnees (the commandments).

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.


Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


The law came to show us our absolute need for a Savior:
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
This purpose has now been fulfilled and we have the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth and righteousness.


Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

We (those of us who are born again believers) have left the covenant of a servant and now through the Spirit are sons of God. We were redeemed from the tutor (the Law) by the one who fulfilled the Law.

Matt 5:17; "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Jesus didn't come to replace the law, he came to fulfill the law.
True- He fulfilled it so we do not need to walk under it.
Matt 5:18; "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

None of the law goes away "until heaven and earth pass away".
For us, as Jesus Himself said "it is finished". For the world outside of Christ- it will still find its sin judged under the Law (Rom 3:19).
Matt 5:19; "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Whoever annuls (says the law doesn't matter anymore) will be called the least in heaven.

Matt 5:20; "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:21; "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' ( Exod 20:13; )
Matt 5:22; "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Matt 5:27; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY'; ( Exod 20:14; )
Matt 5:28; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Matt 5:33; "Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FALSE VOWS, BUT SHALL FULFILL YOUR VOWS TO THE LORD.' ( Lev 19:12; )
Matt 5:34; "But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,

Matt 5:43; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' ( Lev 19:18; )
Matt 5:44; "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Matt 5:45; so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven;

Matt 5:48; "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Mark 7:10; "For Moses said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'; and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH';
Mark 10:19; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"
Luke 18:20; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'
Jesus preached to not one Christian in the gospels for there were no Christians until the birth if the churchin the book of acts. Jesus walked as a practicing Jew and preached to the Jews and the lost- the doctrines of the church are plainly laid out in the Epistles .
Eph 6:2; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise),

Actually I think the part about none of the law applies anymore was invented by theologians to support their pet doctrines.
The bible plainly disagrees with you.
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.



John 14:15; "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

I wonder which commandments he meant? All or none of them? Or some of them?

1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
Wonder no more: Jesus commandment were simply Love, forgive, and Love (Gal 6:2 ).
The new covenant doesn't replace the law. It replaces how the debt of the law is paid.

Heb 10:12; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,
Eph 5:2; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.

The wages of sin, is still death. Sin is still sin, the commandments are still the commandments.
True, but you would need to use your scissors on your bible to ignore the fact that we are not to walk under them:
True the wages of sin are death- that is what the provision of the cross was for.

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Gal_3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
The scripture can be no plainer and makes no distinction of what type of laws


1 Cor 5:7; Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.

What was the leaven spoken of here in 1 Cor 5?
1 Cor 5:1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife.
Yet another commandment ( Lev 18:6-8; )

A cursory reading of 1 Cor 5 shows Christ referring to a people who are walking according to the flesh (Gal_5:19 ) and not the Spirit (Gal _ 5:22-26).

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
New Priesthood- new covenant (Heb 8:13 ).
Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Do I think we will ever agree on this? Probably not, but I am enjoying the discussion of this subject, thanks.

 

[B-A-C]

A cursory reading of 1 Cor 5 shows Christ referring to a people who are walking according to the flesh (Gal_5:19 ) and not the Spirit (Gal _ 5:22-26).

Yes, that's true. How do we know they walking in the flesh? What did they do to show us?

Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Do you really think the Spirit is going to tell us to do something against the commandments? Or do you think he is going to remind us to follow them?
John 14:26; "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
Do you think the Holy Spirit is going to go against Jesus teachings?

Do I think we will ever agree on this? Probably not, but I am enjoying the discussion of this subject, thanks.

I agree, I know there have been many things we do agree on in the past, and probably will be more in the future.
We agree on some things here.
First following the commandments won't save you. Once we are saved we are his children, his heirs. (As long as we follow the Spirit)
We both agree you have to follow the Spirit.

What we don't agree on, has more to do with dispensation. We both believe all the sins of our past are forgiven at the moment of Salvation.
However I believe even new sins that we do after we are saved, must be confessed and forgiven.

Yes there is love, there is mercy, there is grace. (for those in the Spirit, but not all who think they have the Spirit really do).
God loves us as his children, but just like our own children, we sometimes disappoint him, grieve him. Still he loves to watch us grow, even when we stumble.