Does God create people to go to hell

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Basic Principles for Dealing with the Demonic

BY GERRY BRESHEARS JANUARY 1, 2008

Jesus triumphed over Satan and all his demons through His work of redemption, particularly by canceling the power of sin at the cross. (Matt. 12:28-29; Eph. 1:19-23; Col. 2:13-15) Satan is already condemned. (John 12:31; 16:11; Rev. 20:7-10)

The principle of authority is that we are in the kingdom of Christ. Jesus is Lord and head of all power and authority. Satan has absolutely no legitimate authority over the believer. We are free from Satan’s claims upon us. All sins are forgiven, all condemnation is ended, all cultic vows, promises, covenants, etc., were broken when a person comes into Christ's sphere of authority (Col. 1:13-14; 2:9-15). One must never compromise this principle by saying that sin gives a demon legal right to invade a believer or attach itself to your soul. Believe in God; disbelieve Satan.

Our primary weapons against demonic stratagems are faithful application of the fundamentals of the faith (Eph. 6:10-20; 1 Pet. 5:6-9). Light expels darkness.

The only spiritual information to be trusted is from God Himself. This comes through the Bible interpreted naturally. All other knowledge, information, experience is guilty until proven innocent and suspect even then. Be particularly cautious about deeper meanings or uses of passages out of context. These are the same methods the dark world uses. Any information that comes from demons is always presumed a lie or facts given for dark purposes.

Basic patterns of ministry are found in the Bible. Patterns that differ substantially are always suspect.

Avoid every form of contact with the demonic including astrology, new age paraphernalia, demonic movies and music, charms, séances, games, Ouija, etc. (Lev. 19:26, 31; 20:6; Deut. 18:9-13; Acts 19:18-20)

Using deliverance as a substitute for dealing with our flesh or in place of spiritual disciplines, is dangerous.

Most sins don’t need any kind of demonic involvement. Demons often claim credit for sin or a tragedy, trying to profess more power than they possess. Allowing this to go unchallenged may lead to an unwarranted sense of helplessness on the part of a believer.

One must be very careful not to give Satan and his demons too much attention. This can lead to fearfulness or overestimation of his power, to a fascination with evil, or even a kind of satanic worship. Don't know anything more about the demonic than is pastorally necessary. The Bible says nothing specific about demons' origins, hierarchies, territorial jurisdiction, names, or specific functions. That suggests that we don't need to know these things for success in spiritual warfare. It also suggests that we curb our natural curiosity about such things.




Basic Principles for Dealing with the Demonic - Resources - Eternal Perspective Ministries

Dave you should be more careful to what you believe.
This article lacks a lot of truth and is dangerous.

 

[Dave M]

Dave you should be more careful to what you believe.
This article lacks a lot of truth and is dangerous.

that does not surprise me at all coming from you LOL

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

that does not surprise me at all coming from you LOL

You can scoff at me all you want but when a teaching included words such as this
(One must never compromise this principle by saying that sin gives a demon legal right to invade a believer or attach itself to your soul. Believe in God; disbelieve Satan.)

Its easy to see the Spirit behind it is NOT the Holy Spirit!!

 

[Bendito]

[QUOTE
Dave For your convenience I put my answers in black here and bolded them. You are learning doctrines of demons and teaching them here..Doctrines of demons are Doctrines TAUGHT by demons....Because of your stance concerning them you set yourself up to get steamrolled by them.


Basic Principles for Dealing with the Demonic - Resources - Eternal Perspective Ministries[/QUOTE]
Jesus triumphed over Satan and all his demons through His work of redemption, particularly by canceling the power of sin at the cross. (Matt. 12:28-29; Eph. 1:19-23; Col. 2:13-15) Satan is already condemned. (John 12:31; 16:11; Rev. 20:7-10)



Which is not to say that Satan and his minions cannot or will not attack you with all sorts of lies to convince you of your destruction, or teachings which are prolific in our churches today. Dave, be very careful that you are not sharing doctrines of demons here.

The principle of authority is that we are in the kingdom of Christ.

This is not an authority. It’s a state of being.



Jesus is Lord and head of all power and authority. Satan has absolutely no legitimate authority over the believer. We are free from Satan’s claims upon us. All sins are forgiven, all condemnation is ended, all cultic vows, promises, covenants, etc., were broken when a person comes into Christ's sphere of authority (Col. 1:13-14; 2:9-15). One must never compromise this principle by saying that sin gives a demon legal right to invade a believer or attach itself to your soul. Believe in God; disbelieve Satan.

So, this man is saying that since you are a Christian you cannot even be attacked by a demon…That is a doctrine of demons, right there. The fact that you are a Christian sets you up as a prime target from these entities. YOU are their target..and if YOU do not take the authority over them, that Jesus gave to YOU, then YOU are at fault every time you get hit by them.. Jesus set you free from the power of sin does not mean you can’t get into sin once in a while..But now it’s YOUR choice….And if you do get into Satans territory by sinning, of course you are vulnerable and of course a demon or two can and probably WILL attach themselves to you. Why else do you think we need to stay out of sin?

Our primary weapons against demonic stratagems are faithful application of the fundamentals of the faith (Eph. 6:10-20; 1 Pet. 5:6-9). Light expels darkness.

Our primary weapons are our armor Eph. 6:10-20 and the sword of the Word! Hebrews 4:12. If YOU do not swiftly swack the enemy with your sword. He’ll swiftly swack you….What lying teaching did you hear that tells you that the war is over? Doctrines of demons again.

The only spiritual information to be trusted is from God Himself. This comes through the Bible interpreted naturally. All other knowledge, information, experience is guilty until proven innocent and suspect even then. Be particularly cautious about deeper meanings or uses of passages out of context. These are the same methods the dark world uses. Any information that comes from demons is always presumed a lie or facts given for dark purposes.

The only spiritual information is from God himself..Not from some ill informed amateur like the author of this article. The things you have been spouting the last few days is NOT WORD. Its Doctrines of demons that you’ve been taught.

Basic patterns of ministry are found in the Bible. Patterns that differ substantially are always suspect.

Avoid every form of contact with the demonic including astrology, new age paraphernalia, demonic movies and music, charms, séances, games, Ouija, etc. (Lev. 19:26, 31; 20:6; Deut. 18:9-13; Acts 19:18-20)

Using deliverance as a substitute for dealing with our flesh or in place of spiritual disciplines, is dangerous.

What’s he going on about here? Deliverance is a part of our warfare…He seems to be advocating waiting on God to do it all for you. And you gritting your teeth stubbornly and hanging on for dear life.
You are supposed to be a soldier of Christ. A Warrior…and you cannot win any battle from a position of defense.

Most sins don’t need any kind of demonic involvement. Demons often claim credit for sin or a tragedy, trying to profess more power than they possess. Allowing this to go unchallenged may lead to an unwarranted sense of helplessness on the part of a believer.

I won’t argue with this but, BUT when you step out of the light, you step into the dark…And that’s where the monsters live…That’s Satan’s turf…. And he walks about like a roaring lion….just looking for YOU.

One must be very careful not to give Satan and his demons too much attention. This can lead to fearfulness or overestimation of his power, to a fascination with evil, or even a kind of satanic worship. Don't know anything more about the demonic than is pastorally necessary. The Bible says nothing specific about demons' origins, hierarchies, territorial jurisdiction, names, or specific functions. That suggests that we don't need to know these things for success in spiritual warfare. It also suggests that we curb our natural curiosity about such things.

One MUST know his enemy, face his enemy. What this guy is saying is that you stand with your back to the enemy and attack him backward….Or at least that’s the way he describes it. If you do not know your enemy, or how he works, he’s already got you where he wants you…Dead in the water, as it were. That’s another doctrine of demons.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Gentlemen dear brothers @Bendito @Wired 4 Fishen @StudentX354

The thread has been moderated following a reported post.
Subsequently a block of posts were deleted.


Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
Psalm 19:14

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world
Philippians 2:15

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Thank you Sister @Fragrant Grace ,

I apologize for my part and ask that you forgive me and I won't get pulled in again.

Thank you for All you and All of Staff do to keep T.J Safe and more edifying unto Christ.

Blessings and Love in Christ

 

[Curtis]

Yes i understand all that my friend, what you have said.

Let us look at what a sinner is . Seriously. One who doesnt follow the will of God.

In your mind , to be saved is to what . Acknowledge Jesus is Lord, with your lips.

But a person can scream from the highest mountain and scream from his lips that Jesus is Lord. And still not have Jesus in his heart.

It is best to have Jesus in your heart. And being in love with God will save you. Btw.

Faith alone - gong in wind.

But faith is not limited to physical knowledge and love isnt limited to the mind. Both are of the spirit and heart

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation.

No one is saved by "faith", we are saved by "Grace" through "faith".(Eph 2:8) Salvation is strictly by "grace" but to be able to access grace by which man is saved it is only through faith!

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

 

[Curtis]

God only "created" two people. Adam, and Eve. Everyone else is born here.

 

[Curtis]

You can not have "faith" before "knowledge" because faith comes by hearing the Word of God which gives us knowledge!

 

[Curtis]

If God is in control of everything then why would I need faith for anything? If the Lord is just going to do things for me without me having faith in him to do those things, then faith would just be a waste of time!

1Jn 5:19 We know that we are children of God. We know that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

God is in control of the things we place into his hands to control.

 

[Sue D.]

If I could comment on one thing. Born-again believers cannot be demon Possessed but they Can experience Oppression. Once the Holy Spirit has come to indwell us, He won't leave and nothing else can 'inhabit' us.

 

[Bill]

If I could comment on one thing. Born-again believers cannot be demon Possessed but they Can experience Oppression. Once the Holy Spirit has come to indwell us, He won't leave and nothing else can 'inhabit' us.

Do we lose are ability with free will then.

If a person who in his 20's is genuinely born again. But as time goes, goes on his own path. Where does "Once the Holy Spirit has come to indwell, He won't leave" . Does this include those who have fallen so far as to rape or commit murder. What of abortion.

Jesus states clearly that a house divided against itself can not stand. And anyone who has a gift to remove demons is in the Lord. Yet in the Lord's own words, many will come saying, " But Lord, I cast out demons in your name" and the Lord said " Away from me, i never knew you"

Doesn't the fact that at one time this person, he was casting out demons. He had to have been in the Lord at that time. Then later lost his salvation. (Away from me, I never knew you)

 

[B-A-C]

If I could comment on one thing. Born-again believers cannot be demon Possessed but they Can experience Oppression. Once the Holy Spirit has come to indwell us, He won't leave and nothing else can 'inhabit' us.

... and yet the Bible says otherwise.

Heb 6:4; For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5; and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6; and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

μέτοχος
metochos
met'-okh-os
From G3348; participant, that is, (as noun) a sharer; by implication an associate: - fellow, partaker, partner, a consumer.

If a group of people are drinking wine... and I am with them, but never drank the wine. I didn't consume it. I didn't partake of it. I didn't partake in communion for example, even though I was there.
I have to consume it, drink it, partake of it in order to be a "partaker".
So even though these people had partaken of the Holy Spirit, they still fell away.

Some say these people were never saved in the first place. Two reason why that is incorrect. First an unsaved person cannot be a partaker of the Holy Spirit.
Second, they can't be renewed to repentance "again"... unless they've already repented at least once. They can't crucify Jesus "again" if they never accepted His sacrifice the first time.

 

[Bill]

... and yet the Bible says otherwise.

Heb 6:4; For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5; and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6; and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

μέτοχος
metochos
met'-okh-os
From G3348; participant, that is, (as noun) a sharer; by implication an associate: - fellow, partaker, partner, a consumer.

If a group of people are drinking wine... and I am with them, but never drank the wine. I didn't consume it. I didn't partake of it. I didn't partake in communion for example, even though I was there.
I have to consume it, drink it, partake of it in order to be a "partaker".
So even though these people had partaken of the Holy Spirit, they still fell away.

Some say these people were never saved in the first place. Two reason why that is incorrect. First an unsaved person cannot be a partaker of the Holy Spirit.
Second, they can't be renewed to repentance "again"... unless they've already repented at least once. They can't crucify Jesus "again" if they never accepted His sacrifice the first time.

Im not trying to harp on Sue here, because i really like a lot of what she says and i can see Gods Spirit in her in a big way.

But adding to what you said. It is written in the scripture to " fan into a flame " speaking of our faith. And i believe it is for this very reason Paul pushes us to burn in our heats for God

 

[Sue D.]

Well -- we were talking about some of this in Bible study last week. That there Can come a time in a person's life where they have an anti-God attitude -- their inner attitude is / has become Such an anti-God attitude that they have crossed the line. I've known of people who have heard salvation presented and have come So Close to acceptance, have seen God work in other people's lives in a positive way, yet they back off and don't accept. They've chosen to reject the only way salvation has been made possible. But, as the saying goes -- as long as a person is Alive , there is always hope. But when that person Dies, they are out of 'chances'.

the question had been 'what is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit'. A lot of discussion about that. One response was -- If a person is concerned that they Have done that, they haven't or they wouldn't be concerned that they Had. And I'm thinking that it's taking what God / Jesus Christ is / has done and attributing it to satan. When a person's heart attitude is like That, then watch out.

God Can take the 'heart of stone' and change it. He Can show His Power in that way.

And what is really frightening -- is all the people who've been 'led to repeat a prayer' and given literature and then go back to 'whatever'. No follow-up is done. That happened to a couple of the youth in our church some years ago. A new Praise and Worship group had come to a local church to 'introduce' the new style of worship too our area. A couple of teens had 'gone forward' -- the song leaders had gotten everyone fairly emotionally worked up. The teens never came back. It was at high school graduation time and they would have been given a Bible by the church as a graduation gift -- but no one showed up.


As to whether a born-again believer Can commit rape, murder , abortion.

The rape 'thing'. probably depends on the situation. Proving an actual rape has taken place. Rape can be statuatory in nature. Legally a minor cannot give consent for a sexual encounter. So the guy involved would legally be 'raping' a young lady. Even when they are dating and a parent decides they don't like the guy which does happen. They know the teens are having sex and decide to 'catch the in the act'. The parent Can charge the guy with statuatory rape and cause the guy all kinds of legal grief.

But a real Christian man intentionally raping ? Well - ya wouldn't think So, but men -- even Christian men are still human.

Well -- A Christian man can Still be in a situation where he Would intentionally kill someone. Maybe he catches a man attacking his wife and he ends up beating the other person to death. the law could say he was crossing the protection line by beating up the attacker because he Became an attacker in the process. Of course, a good attorney would say -- what man is in complete control of his senses when involved in seeing his wife Being attacked. It Could be considered justifiable homicide.

The abortion? A Christian guy who's gotten his girlfriend pregnant Could and probably has paid for her abortion. Probably done more than we'd like to think.

You're questioning if those actions will result in a person's loosing their salvation. Eternal security is all about the Holy Spirit Never leaving the believer until they Are with Jesus Christ.

We give birth to children -- they decide to be independent and do their own thing -- do they loose their position as our natural children, no. When we adopt a child -- the natural parent has a certain amount of time to withdraw their decision to give the child the child up. But after That -- the adoption is permanent.

 

[Sue D.]

Im not trying to harp on Sue here, because i really like a lot of what she says and i can see Gods Spirit in her in a big way.

But adding to what you said. It is written in the scripture to " fan into a flame " speaking of our faith. And i believe it is for this very reason Paul pushes us to burn in our heats for God

Bill -- I appreciate your comment about me.

What do you mean by 'fan into a flame' speaking of our faith. "to burn in our hearts for God'. Unless you mean that we should be passionate about God in our lives and sharing the Gospel with others. And, maybe Especially these days. Believers Will be known by their lives. If they Aren't, then there Is something 'missing'.

 

[Bill]

Bill -- I appreciate your comment about me.

What do you mean by 'fan into a flame' speaking of our faith. "to burn in our hearts for God'. Unless you mean that we should be passionate about God in our lives and sharing the Gospel with others. And, maybe Especially these days. Believers Will be known by their lives. If they Aren't, then there Is something 'missing'.

In scripture Jesus states, do you light a lamp, and then cover it. No, you hold it up for all the world to see.
Jesus isnt only talking about himself, but talking about Recieving Christ (the light of the world) . Recieving the Holy Spirit. The Fire of God.

Do we put that lamp under a bushel basket. Hide the light.

Or will we fan that flame into an all consuming fire. That we become like Christ. (" Be Holy for I am Holy ") and That the Holy Spirit make Its home in us.

If we keep putting Jesus 1st in our lives, then there will be no worry of ever falling away from the Grace of God.

And yes, we can fall away.

There are two primary ways this can happen.

One , through neglect and laziness.

The other, a willfull act of rejection. A willfull act against another. Totally the opposite of love your neighbor as yourself.

It is that willfull act, knowing, planning . Even though everyfiber in your being is telling you it is wrong.

(Lol, i lost my train of thought)

I think you understand me. Peace Always

 

[Sue D.]

That 'willful' act of rejection would / could also indicate that the individual was never a believer in the 1st place. People who have a great head-knowledge of God but not the heart acceptance.
I'd say that we Are on the same page.

 

[Bill]

That 'willful' act of rejection would / could also indicate that the individual was never a believer in the 1st place. People who have a great head-knowledge of God but not the heart acceptance.
I'd say that we Are on the same page. :smile:

You pre-suppose that a believer cant fall. Let us look at marriage as an example. Ppl will with no doubts be in LOVE with each other and be married. In the same concept, married couples must work to keep that marriage alive. To "fan that fire into an all consuming flame". Yet how often do we see divorce step in after 17 yrs, 12 yrs, or even less.

When i got married. I made a vow before God . I swore an oath to take my wife through thick and thin so to speak. I take that oath seriously. I know God is real.

What about others, who believe God is real. But dont fan into a flame that oath they swore.

 

[Sue D.]

Yes, marriage is Meant to be a picture of Christ's love for each person in His Church / His Bride. Christ is the Perfect Groom. Human beings are not perfect. We mess up. Sometimes we get married for the Wrong reasons. And for either right or wrong reasons, some people Stay married and some choose to or end up Being divorced. Divorce was never meant to exist. It's Meant to be not until Death do spouses part. Divorce is only 'allowed' for adultery and when a non-believing spouse would choose to leave the believing spouse. The believing spouse is Supposed to let the other one 'go' if he/ she wants to. But even in adultery -- spouses don't Have to leave -- they Can choose to stay together and work through the problems that resulted in the adultery.

Christ - on the other hand - Won't 'divorce' any of 'us'. Once the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us, He has promised to never leave us or forsake us. We are 'safe' until we are with Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is the Only perfect groom.

Actually -- the title of this thread IS "Does God create people to go to hell" -- not to change the subject or anything. But -- Because God IS God -- He has omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence. Omniscience says that He has All knowledge. Which means that He, alone, knows who Will and who Won't accept Him or Not accept Him. And God's sovereignty says that He is in control of Everything. And 'we' are Told to go to all the world and teach the Gospel unto Salvation -- Starting from 'here at home' and spreading as the Holy Spirit guides each person to Go and share. In that process -- baptizing and teaching. Discipling. And 'we' Also have "by their fruits we will know them". The Holy Spirits' indwelling a person Will make a difference in their lives. A positive difference. If that evidence Isn't present -- then there needs to be loving concern shown -- in private.

Just thought I'd interject that.