Does God Love The Non-Elect?

[Boanerges]

Amen Ed.

Red emphasis mine:
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[jiggyfly]

Colossians 1:16&17
16*Christ is the one through whom God created everything in heaven and earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see—kings, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities. Everything has been created through him and for him. 17*He existed before everything else began, and he holds all creation together.

 

[cman77]

you are not going to open the door to him if he has not called you to do so. a lot of what i have been hearing sounds like you all think that the choice is not gods. it sounds like you believe that god calls everyone but it is our decision whether to answer. if god calls someone it is not within that persons power to ignore it

 

[jiggyfly]

it sounds like you believe that god calls everyone but it is our decision whether to answer.

Mark 16:15&16
15*And then he told them, “Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone, everywhere. 16 Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned.

Acts 17:30
30*God overlooked people’s former ignorance about these things, but now he commands everyone everywhere to turn away from idols and turn to him.*

Isaiah 61:11
11*The Sovereign Lord will show his justice to the nations of the world. Everyone will praise him! His righteousness will be like a garden in early spring, filled with young plants springing up everywhere.

I could go on and on with many more scriptures but I think it is clear that God is calling everyone.

if god calls someone it is not within that persons power to ignore it

Matthew 19:21&22
21*Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22*But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Here's an example of a person being called and refusing to answer the call.

 

[Boanerges]

There is room for disagreement here. What one should consider is this; there are some scriptures that declare the elect are to be saved and some declaring this is available to all. In such cases the truth must work with both otherwise the bible contains error and this cannot be. God loves and payed the price for all. Those He predestined by foreknowledge of their choices are the ones that would choose Him.
(red emphasis mine)
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[Laudite]

you are not going to open the door to him if he has not called you to do so. a lot of what i have been hearing sounds like you all think that the choice is not gods. it sounds like you believe that god calls everyone but it is our decision whether to answer. if god calls someone it is not within that persons power to ignore it

The direct result of your proposal would be that God is not all loving, because the consequence of sin and death would rest on His shoulders. The original question seems to ascertain this problem. So there's clearly enough scripture in the thread to demonstrate that God loves all mankind. So what does that mean? To me, you just do not find a biblical affirmation of the notion that God, and not sinners, make the decision to accept salvation. I realise that some of my brothers and sisters will disagree here, and I don't have any problem with people who believe that. But what I think we can all agree is that biblical reference only supports this concept if you accept an assumption about the nature of time, namely that because God knows everything before it happens, he must, in his omnipotence, have chosen who will accept and who will decline salvation. I have two problems with this assumption. First, it attempts to apply human limitations to God: just because to us the past is decided does not mean it is so to God. The bible is silent on this question and attempting to apply what we ascertain of reality to God is... probably not useful. It is, in fact, possible that God exists outside of time, and that even in omnipotence and omniscience he created mankind with genuine free will. Several references in this thread seem to support that. Second, I have not seen an adequate answer to the problem the question poses: if God decides not to save sinners, except in that he loves them as free acting individuals and allows them to choose, he is capricious, even evil. It would also make condemnation to hell God's choice, which is directly refuted several places (in the thread, I would add that when one has a hundred sheep, and one goes missing, do I not leave the 99 and seek the one?)

 

[Laudite]

There is room for disagreement here. What one should consider is this; there are some scriptures that declare the elect are to be saved and some declaring this is available to all. In such cases the truth must work with both otherwise the bible contains error and this cannot be. God loves and payed the price for all. Those He predestined by foreknowledge of their choices are the ones that would choose Him.
(red emphasis mine)
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I would point out that it is possible that we might be incorrectly understanding the scripture. In fact, in this particular case it seems to be the only possibility. The statement salvation is open to all cannot be both true and false. If I'm missing something here, maybe you could explain?

 

[Gracealone]

What you are missing is this......
God died for all, he has made a way for all to be saved, he finished his work, and said, It is finished........Once, for ALL.

What you are doing in your reasoning is making God responsible for our choice.
He doesn't send us to hell by not drawing us,because he has foeknowledge, but he works in the heart of every man.
The choice, and responsibility is ours.
He created us that way.
Yes, he foreknows , but he still died for All, and he still seeks each one.

He did all he can do, it is our choice, not his.
He is not willing that any should perish, but all come to a knowledge of God.
Choose you, this day, who you will serve.
All you have to do to become the elect is to say, Yes, Lord, today.

 

[shipwreck]

Yes, I do believe the Lord loves all that is why He died on the cross. I also believe that it hurts the Lord when people choose not to except Him. Didn't He die for all and not just some of us, For God so loved the World... Godbless.

 

[Gracealone]

Yes, I do believe the Lord loves all that is why He died on the cross. I also believe that it hurts the Lord when people choose not to except Him. Didn't He die for all and not just some of us, For God so loved the World... Godbless.

Yes! Amen

 

[Boanerges]

I would point out that it is possible that we might be incorrectly understanding the scripture. In fact, in this particular case it seems to be the only possibility. The statement salvation is open to all cannot be both true and false. If I'm missing something here, maybe you could explain?

My opinion? The element you are missing is the ability man has to choose, accept or reject. Is salvation open to all? The scripture plainly declares yes for God causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.
God is love and it is His very nature to love, that will never change. Man has been given choices since the garden , many simply would rather direct their own lives that yield to a loving Father.

 

[dchena]

I haven't read eveyone's responses yet, so i hope this is new input.

If God is love, how can He not love the non-elect? His desire is to have everyone with Him, isn't it?

It's clear that God does not withhold consequences, but I don't think that should be understood as something other than love.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

if god calls someone it is not within that persons power to ignore it

If what you are saying is true, you (cman77) do not have free will.

SLE

 

[Chad]

Mark 16:15&16
15*And then he told them, “Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone, everywhere. 16 Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned.

Acts 17:30
30*God overlooked people’s former ignorance about these things, but now he commands everyone everywhere to turn away from idols and turn to him.*

Isaiah 61:11
11*The Sovereign Lord will show his justice to the nations of the world. Everyone will praise him! His righteousness will be like a garden in early spring, filled with young plants springing up everywhere.

I could go on and on with many more scriptures but I think it is clear that God is calling everyone.




Matthew 19:21&22
21*Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22*But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Here's an example of a person being called and refusing to answer the call.

Amen. That nails it on the head.

cman, I have no idea where you get your views from but its not in the Bible at all.

I suggest some study tools while reading the Word.

Some helpful online tools (free):

www.biblegateway.org
www.blueletterbible.org
www.gotquestions.org
www.carm.org
www.ebible.com

 

[trucker]

Does God love the Non-elect

Survey says! Yes. God so loves all men that he sent Jesus to die for all men. Yes, the elect are those who have chosen to receive what God has done for all mankind, that is made Jesus sin for us so that we can receive his righteousness as a free gift. You forget. God loved us while we were yet sinners. How much more now.

Sad thing to think about. God still loves those in Hell. There choices sent them their even though the free gift was available to them

 

[trucker]

Does God love the elect

God desires all men to be saved. He knocks on the door of ALL mens hearts. Many still reject that knock and end up eternally damned. God does not select who comes to him or not. The Holy Spirit draws all men to God, it is men who reject him, not him us.

Blessings!!!!

1 Timothy 2

1FIRST OF all, then, I admonish and urge that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be offered on behalf of all men,

2For kings and all who are in positions of authority or high responsibility, that [outwardly] we may pass a quiet and undisturbed life [and inwardly] a peaceable one in all godliness and reverence and seriousness in every way.

3For such [praying] is good and right, and [it is] pleasing and acceptable to God our Savior,

4Who wishes all men to be saved and [increasingly] to perceive and recognize and discern and know precisely and correctly the [divine] Truth.

5For there [is only] one God, and [only] one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

6Who gave Himself as a ransom for all [people, a fact that was] attested to at the right and proper time.

 

[B-A-C]

The Elect

I agree with you trucker!
We are ALL chosen!! We are ALL elected!!

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

The difference is.. some of refuse his son.
Just like a President "Elect" can refuse office before he is actually President.

 

[cman77]

i haven't been on for a while but it seems that its been getting off the subject. right now we are on the subject of did jesus de for all. my question was did god love everybody and i think no. as some of you have said god is all loving. this is true but i believe that god is all loving to HIS people. just look into the old testament. he commanded the israelites, in several instances, to kill every man women and child in a nation. does that sound like he loved them? those nations were wicked. they did not worship the god of heaven so they were punished.


The Lord tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence. Psalm 11:5

 

[shipwreck]

Cman, When Christ died He died for all not Just some but all is that not love ? Is God not love? Of course He is. a parent punishes their children not out of hate but love God loves all but that does not mean if we sin we are not going to have to pay the consequences I don't believe God slayed those people out of hate but it was consequence to their actions God loves no one more or less than the other. Godbless.

 

[Laudite]

My opinion? The element you are missing is the ability man has to choose, accept or reject. Is salvation open to all? The scripture plainly declares yes for God causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.
God is love and it is His very nature to love, that will never change. Man has been given choices since the garden , many simply would rather direct their own lives that yield to a loving Father.

Yes, I very much agree.