evidence for god

[Zendra]

To evstevemd:I believe in a god, if i think of God I think of the one mentioned in the bible as that is what i was raised with. I don't believe in the bible as sacred or accurate. I believe there was a man named Jesus however i don't believe he was the son of God. I believe in a god partly because of the fear mentioned and being raised christian. I dont beleive in the validity of the bible because of the age i suppose. My doubt in the bible then leads me to doubt Jesus's divinity.

 

[RJ]

To evstevemd:I believe in a god, if i think of God I think of the one mentioned in the bible as that is what i was raised with. I don't believe in the bible as sacred or accurate. I believe there was a man named Jesus however i don't believe he was the son of God. I believe in a god partly because of the fear mentioned and being raised christian. I dont beleive in the validity of the bible because of the age i suppose. My doubt in the bible then leads me to doubt Jesus's divinity.

Jesus said that you can blasphemy him but you can not blasphemy the Holy Spirit. We believe that you must be "Born Again" that's 2 births; the first is of your earthly parents and the second is of the "Holy Spirit".
You must be born again of the spirit to be saved for all eternity.

If you find yourself at a loss in your life; you can have many worldly treasures in your possesion, not really having any needs but, you find yourself running on empty all the time, you don't feel complete, there is this void in you that you just can't explain: You could just yearning for the Holy Spirit and just don't realize it.

If you ever find yourself in this situation, why not just give Jesus a try and see if it makes a difference.If your not sure yet what will happen to you after you die or you say there is nothing, what harm can it do to give him a try.

I personally think that you are here at TJ's for a reason and it's not just to tell everyone why you don't believe, I think God is knocking on your heart, He seeks you; all you have to do is seek him!

 

[evstevemd]

To evstevemd:I believe in a god,

So which one? If you don't believe in the Bible, it follows that you don't believe in a God it describes. Otherwise it would be contradiction!

if i think of God I think of the one mentioned in the bible as that is what i was raised with.

So why do you believe that God even exists?

I don't believe in the bible as sacred or accurate.

May I know why?

I believe there was a man named Jesus however i don't believe he was the son of God.

How do you know there was a man named Jesus? How do you know he was not the son of God?

I believe in a god partly because of the fear mentioned and being raised christian.

Why do you have to fear anything? You have to decide. Either the Bible is true or false. Either there is a God or not. There is either afterlife or none. So the problem is you have not decided to take the matter seriously and investigate. May be you are afraid of conclusions that will follow investigations. In any case, why not investigate honestly and come up with decision so that you will live fearless life?

I dont beleive in the validity of the bible because of the age i suppose. My doubt in the bible then leads me to doubt Jesus's divinity.

What on earth age have to do with belief/unbelief in the Bible?

I think you have to work on your premises they are flawed, full of false presuppositions. You need to get answers on why you presuppose that the Bible cannot be sacred, even accurate; Jesus cannot be Son of God and there is no proof of God's existence. I see these presupposition on your posts but it seems that your conscience drives you on the opposite direction.

 

[evstevemd]

why not just give Jesus a try and see if it makes a difference.If your not sure yet what will happen to you after you die or you say there is nothing, what harm can it do to give him a try.

May I disagree on this!
This is a matter of whole heart decision. I would say, he/she should decide whether or not to trust Jesus. He have to realize that, from deep down his heart, that he have decided to follow Jesus!

 

[Zendra]

So which one? If you don't believe in the Bible, it follows that you don't believe in a God it describes. Otherwise it would be contradiction!

While i don't believe in the sacred validity of the bible i still view it as having some historical validity. If i think of a god i think of the one mentioned(and believed by the characters) in the bible.

So why do you believe that God even exists?

Because that is how i was raised. old habits die hard

I don't believe in the bible as sacred or accurate.
May I know why?

Why do you believe it is?. I think the bible has been subject to change and manipulation not only over time but in the initial compilation of it. eg change to mix with pagan traditions

How do you know there was a man named Jesus? How do you know he was not the son of God?

Like i mentioned before i still believe the bible has some historical validity. I believe the bible was based on truth and then manipulated. I do not actually know for sure if he was or not the son of god.

Why do you have to fear anything? You have to decide. Either the Bible is true or false. Either there is a God or not. There is either afterlife or none. So the problem is you have not decided to take the matter seriously and investigate. May be you are afraid of conclusions that will follow investigations. In any case, why not investigate honestly and come up with decision so that you will live fearless life?

What do you mean investigate? I understand that in the case of no religion there is almost no chance of afterlife.

What on earth age have to do with belief/unbelief in the Bible?

I think you have to work on your premises they are flawed, full of false presuppositions. You need to get answers on why you presuppose that the Bible cannot be sacred, even accurate; Jesus cannot be Son of God and there is no proof of God's existence. I see these presupposition on your posts but it seems that your conscience drives you on the opposite direction.

By age i meant incomplete translations, Chinese whispers etc.
I don't think Im presupposing that the bible cant be sacred any more than Im presupposing a primary school friend will be different when i remeet with them as an adult. I didn't say Jesus cannot be the son of God( I never almost never say 100%) and my original question was actually asking for evidence of God because i didn't have any. You may be right that my conscience drives me the other way, i have also ways been conscious of how people think of me and may naturally not want 'God' to think bad of me.

 

[evstevemd]

Zendra,
thanks for honest answers and I would love to help you as much as I can.
Now let us start with critical issue here, credibility of the Bible. Let me state my grounds: I believe that the Bible is not only accurate but also infallible and the Word of very God. The Bible isn't manipulated or changed.

Now concerning the Gospels, there is plenty evidence that only confirms what I have Just stated. They were honest people that reported some "bad stuffs" that non honest reporter would love to hide (Like Peter denying his master or Women as first witness in society where women could not stand on court as witness). As to accuracy, read the conclusion of Sir William Ramsay, ardent atheist who investigate Luke and was changed by evidence, only to be a believer. So the historicity of the Gospels is well established.

That comes to the ultimate proof of Christianity, the resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. That is well established fact. It have corroboration from both non hostile witnesses like writers of the Gospels and from hostile witness like Roman historians and the Sanhedrin.

The conclusions from the fact of resurrection rules out Atheism and all other religions as false.

Listen to your conscience, it is the watchdog God gave you to help guide you. Do investigate and I hope you will come with results like those of intelligents like:
William Lane Craig
Gary Habermas
Mike Licona
Henry Morris
Frank Morisson
J.N.D Anderson
and many other who believed in God through Jesus, the way.

 

[Chad]

While i don't believe in the sacred validity of the bible i still view it as having some historical validity. If i think of a god i think of the one mentioned(and believed by the characters) in the bible.

You mean, GOD not "a god" right? There's an infinite difference between god and GOD. "god" is fake, dead. On the other hand, GOD (aka Jesus Christ manifest) is alive, real and the only GOD that ever existed.

Because that is how i was raised. old habits die hard

Because that is how i was raised. old habits die hard

That makes no sense. Just because mom and dad told you to believe in something doesn't validate the authenticity and truth of something.

Why do you believe it is?. I think the bible has been subject to change and manipulation not only over time but in the initial compilation of it. eg change to mix with pagan traditions

Comment, but no proof?

Like i mentioned before i still believe the bible has some historical validity. I believe the bible was based on truth and then manipulated. I do not actually know for sure if he was or not the son of god.

But, how do you know then it was manipulated? Someone told you so? Did you take your humble time to read the evidence and proof in this very forum your responding to called "Evidence & Bible Prophecy"? The hundreds of fulfilled prophecies is not sufficient enough for you?

What do you mean investigate? I understand that in the case of no religion there is almost no chance of afterlife.

Investigate....learn...seek....and find truth in Jesus Christ.

By age i meant incomplete translations, Chinese whispers etc.
I don't think Im presupposing that the bible cant be sacred any more than Im presupposing a primary school friend will be different when i remeet with them as an adult. I didn't say Jesus cannot be the son of God( I never almost never say 100%) and my original question was actually asking for evidence of God because i didn't have any. You may be right that my conscience drives me the other way, i have also ways been conscious of how people think of me and may naturally not want 'God' to think bad of me.[/QUOTE]

 

[Chad]

To evstevemd:I believe in a god,

Really? Who is this "god" that you believe in? What's he like? Personality? Where did you learn about him? What has he done for you?

 

[Zendra]

To evstevemd

Now concerning the Gospels, there is plenty evidence that only confirms what I have Just stated. They were honest people that reported some "bad stuffs" that non honest reporter would love to hide (Like Peter denying his master or Women as first witness in society where women could not stand on court as witness).

Fair enough however if we assume for a minute that constantine did have a part in putting the bible together then we can assume that the gospels were not in on it themselves and therefore could not choose to take parts out.







To chad:

To evstevemd:I believe in a god,
Really? Who is this "god" that you believe in? What's he like? Personality? Where did you learn about him? What has he done for you?

I believe God to be of a more equal personality rather than the high up taking all the praise type. I haven't learned anything about him aside from what i was taught in church. I cant name anything he has done for me although if you take the whole, 'hes responsible for anything good' stance then you could say hes made my life what it is.

You mean, GOD not "a god" right? There's an infinite difference between god and GOD. "god" is fake, dead. On the other hand, GOD (aka Jesus Christ manifest) is alive, real and the only GOD that ever existed.

Ok yes God, I was using 'a god' to indicate what i think of if i think of god(sorry if that sentance is confusing)

That makes no sense. Just because mom and dad told you to believe in something doesn't validate the authenticity and truth of something.

Yes i understand that but it is not like adult to adult. To a child a parents word is law and i had been raised to beleive in God and the Bible for my whole life. I had never been challanged or exposed to the alternatives.

Why do you believe it is?. I think the bible has been subject to change and manipulation not only over time but in the initial compilation of it. eg change to mix with pagan traditions.
Comment, but no proof?

Unfortunately i dont keep track of my sources. However a quick search lead me a site, unfortunately i dont have enough posts sorry.

But, how do you know then it was manipulated? Someone told you so? Did you take your humble time to read the evidence and proof in this very forum your responding to called "Evidence & Bible Prophecy"? The hundreds of fulfilled prophecies is not sufficient enough for you?

I dont 'know' that it was manipulated. Looking down the first page of threads i dont see any heading mentioning proof of the bible. Ill admit i havent read all of your threads about prophecies however the problem i have with un specific phropecies is that they themselves can be manipulated to suit and sound as though they have been fulfilled. I think i used the analogy of the primary school friend before to compare the bible and its manipulation. To say the bible hasent undergone some change to me is like calculating what speed an object will travel only taking the thing that pushes it into account and not things that will slow it down.


Im not sure what you meant by your last quote, perhaps you could clarify?

 

[RJ]

To evstevemd:I believe in a god, if i think of God I think of the one mentioned in the bible as that is what i was raised with. I don't believe in the bible as sacred or accurate. I believe there was a man named Jesus however i don't believe he was the son of God. I believe in a god partly because of the fear mentioned and being raised christian. I dont beleive in the validity of the bible because of the age i suppose. My doubt in the bible then leads me to doubt Jesus's divinity.

I know that it is hard for any non-believer to understand this but I believe in Jesus Christ because I know that he lives in me.

I don't need some type of hard proof but I realize that unbelievers live and think from the physical, fleshy world and not of the Spirt and most non-believers have to have some degree of logic, so here it comes:

You said that you believe that there was a man name Jesus, that he did exsist but he was not who he said he was. Well congratulations, your not alone, all Muslims, Orthodox-Jews and many others believe the same as you do. The key here is that you atleast acknowledge that he did exist.
Now, whether you agree or not with them, if you can acknowledge that there were prophets that did prohesize hundreds of Messianic Prophecies, then what are the odds that Jesus was not who he said he was, based on him fulfilling these predictions?

When plugged into some of the most powerful computers in exixtence, the experts said that they were not able to do all of the hundreds of prophecies, their computers could only do up to 8.

The computers said that, if Jesus fulfilled just 8, the odds that he was NOT who he said he was is 1x10 to the 16th power or:
just one chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000..that's one chance in a hundred million billion...just one chance that Jesus was not God!

I am sure you can research this yourself.

 

[Zendra]

I don't need some type of hard proof but I realize that unbelievers live and think from the physical, fleshy world and not of the Spirt and most non-believers have to have some degree of logic, so here it comes:

Can the two worlds not mix?

Now, whether you agree or not with them, if you can acknowledge that there were prophets that did prohesize hundreds of Messianic Prophecies, then what are the odds that Jesus was not who he said he was, based on him fulfilling these predictions?

Nice odds however think of it this way, did the prophecy in harry potter come true? why did it come true?

 

[Zendra]

Wow up to 6 pages, thanks for your responses everyone

 

[SpiritLedEd]

When plugged into some of the most powerful computers in exixtence, the experts said that they were not able to do all of the hundreds of prophecies, their computers could only do up to 8.

The computers said that, if Jesus fulfilled just 8, the odds that he was NOT who he said he was is 1x10 to the 16th power or:
just one chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000..that's one chance in a hundred million billion...just one chance that Jesus was not God!

I am sure you can research this yourself.

RJ,

Could you identify the source of this study? That would be helpful to Zendra or anyone else who wants to check it out.

SLE

 

[RJ]

Can the two worlds not mix?




Nice odds however think of it this way, did the prophecy in harry potter come true? why did it come true?

I won't even give your Harry Potter analogy and answer. I take ones understanding of The Biblle, God and Jesus and especially Salvation, very seriously.

You know this is a Jesus forum and not a anti-Jesus forum. Most people are here to learn and share their relationship with Jesus and your comment is an insult to that relationship.

If your going to have such rude sarcasm with you responses, why don't you find a forum that better suits your beliefs?:wink:

 

[RJ]

RJ,

Could you identify the source of this study? That would be helpful to Zendra or anyone else who wants to check it out.

SLE

Just google it! I believe "what are the odds that Jesus wasn't who he said he was" will work.

 

[RJ]

Just google it! I believe "what are the odds that Jesus wasn't who he said he was" will work.

http://yearofourlord.org/1_bible_divinity_of_christ/ScienceSpeaks.pdf

see page fifty

 

[Zendra]

I won't even give your Harry Potter analogy and answer. I take ones understanding of The Biblle, God and Jesus and especially Salvation, very seriously.

I wasnt trying to make this light hearted i was just using a common example. My point was that if the bible was open to manipulation it makes sense to adjust things so that it fufills prophecies. Hope that sentance makes sense.

You know this is a Jesus forum and not a anti-Jesus forum. Most people are here to learn and share their relationship with Jesus and your comment is an insult to that relationship.

If your going to have such rude sarcasm with you responses, why don't you find a forum that better suits your beliefs?

Im sorry if i offended, my purpose isnt to flame anti christian. Im finding out both sides to the argument so i can make up my mind. I dont understand what comment was offensive and there was no sarcasm intended, could you please explain and ill be sure to be more careful in future posts.

 

[RJ]

I wasnt trying to make this light hearted i was just using a common example. My point was that if the bible was open to manipulation it makes sense to adjust things so that it fufills prophecies. Hope that sentance makes sense.




Im sorry if i offended, my purpose isnt to flame anti christian. Im finding out both sides to the argument so i can make up my mind. I dont understand what comment was offensive and there was no sarcasm intended, could you please explain and ill be sure to be more careful in future posts.

Zendra,

I apologize, I know you don't understand but, the "Harry Potter" is more likened to sorcercy, witchcraft and the devil than it is compared to the Holy work of God and was a horrible comparison under the best of intentions!

If you really want to Know if the Bible is real or not, then read it as a "one of a kind" story book and put some real intelligence behind your assumptions. A true believer knows that it was God inspired and not made up by men in some dimley light room, while they wrenched their hands together, saying He-he he!

Look at it this way:
1 COR 2:14
<SUP id=en-NIV-28409 class=versenum>14</SUP> The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

2 Peter 2:12
<SUP>12</SUP> But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.

My friend, by not knowing the Spirit of God, you are missing out on the greatest treasure a man can find in this life, infinitely more precious than gold and if you fail to find it in this life, you are doomed in the other and that is for eternity!....Wouldn't it be better, more logical, to find out for sure, just in case I am right?

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Just google it! I believe "what are the odds that Jesus wasn't who he said he was" will work.

Its on YouTube.

SLE

 

[Zendra]

I once tried reading the bible, cant excatly remember why i gave up but i suppose i can give it another shot. Which bible is the official one?