False prophet ... "anti" christ?

canada · Dec 24, 2012

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> FALSE PROPHET … “ANTI” CHRIST?
A point that may have meaning to some here when discussing a future (or past or present) “anti” Christ.

If (for example) you believe the religious “False Prophet” of Rev 13 is Mohammad, or perhaps a pope, or some other religious personage, please keep in mind that “anti” does not always mean “against” or “opposed” to.

If you check out your Strong’s Concordance #473 for the definition of the Greek word “anti” you will see that it has three meanings and none are “opposed to” or “against” … Christ.

The three are “instead of” … “in place of” … and/or a “substitute”.

If your “suspect” for the False Prophet is a pope, then this makes biblical sense, for each and every pope claims to be the “Vicar of Christ”.

The actual meaning of vicar or vicarious is … “a person who acts in place of another”.
The reigning pope claims to be “in the place of Christ”.

The pope is “instead of” Christ … he is a substitute for Christ.

You may recall that more than a few popes have blasphemously claimed to be “as God on earth”.

This may cause you to think about 2 Thess 2 which speaks about the man of sin being revealed … so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Eric E Stahl · Dec 25, 2012

Because

BECAUSE

2 Thessalonians 2:6–7 KJV
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in
his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

B-A-C · Dec 25, 2012

One thing to keep in mind here is that a concordance isn't a dictionary. It doesn't give the definition of a word, it translates it or gives references to it.

canada · Dec 25, 2012

B-A-C said:
One thing to keep in mind here is that a concordance isn't a dictionary. It doesn't give the definition of a word, it translates it or gives references to it.

Agreed B-A-C ... the concordance translates "anti" #473 as "in place of" ... "instead of" ... "substitute".
whereas the dictionary gives the definition of vicar and/or vicarious as "a person who acts in place of another".

I think most students of prophecy would concur that this Greek "anti" and "vicar" are near identical in substance.

Now, understanding that, do we agree or disagree that a pope could be the miracle working False Prophet of Rev 13?

Eric E Stahl · Dec 25, 2012

canada said:
Agreed B-A-C ... the concordance translates "anti" #473 as "in place of" ... "instead of" ... "substitute".
whereas the dictionary gives the definition of vicar and/or vicarious as "a person who acts in place of another".

I think most students of prophecy would concur that this Greek "anti" and "vicar" are near identical in substance.

Now, understanding that, do we agree or disagree that a pope could be the miracle working False Prophet of Rev 13?

Revelation 13:1 KJV
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

AT THE TIME of the tribulation period, the revived Roman Empire will again emerge as a dominant world power. It will be an alliance of ten kings or dictators and their kingdoms. Their common denominator will be the apostate Christian church, or what is left of the church after the rapture of the born-again Christians. This ecumenical church will be centered in the city of Rome on seven mountains. In the Scriptures, God calls the apostate church “harlot Babylon” because harlot Babylon takes the place of the proper church as a harlot takes the place of a wife.

Revelation 17:12–18 KJV
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the ***** sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the *****, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

John explains his vision, which is very interesting, in that verse seventeen says that God will cause the ten kings who will be ruled by the apostate church from Rome to rebel and give their power to the Antichrist.
Think back to 2 Thessalonians 2. Remember that God will cause all the people who hear the truth of the Gospel of Jesus, but reject that truth, to believe the lie of the Antichrist after the rapture of believers. Therefore, God will cause the people of the Christian nations who remain after the rapture to believe the Antichrist and follow him. In Revelation 17:17, God gives the Antichrist control of the whole world by causing the ten kings who will conquer the world to give their power to the Antichrist. The Devil, who is also called the dragon, will give his power to the Antichrist as well.

Since the antichrist's alliance of ten kings destroy the apostate Christian church centered in Rome called Mystery Babylon, I doubt that the false prophet will be the pope.

canada · Dec 26, 2012

Erik,

Your scenario sounds very much like that of Lindsay’s The Late Great Planet Earth of 40 years ago. What other prophecy writers have influenced your thinking?

1. Do you think the alliance of Daniel’s ten kings (EU) is yet future, or might you and the prophecy experts missed it when it came to pass?

2. How about the “little horn” (diverse from the others) that comes up among the ten? Do you think this is yet future, or might you and the experts have missed this historic event also?

Your second paragraph speaks about the apostate Christian church centered in Rome on seven mountains.

3. Are you saying that the present church in Rome on seven mountains is not the harlot church … but will be a future church in Rome, but not the RCC?

Eric E Stahl · Dec 26, 2012

canada said:
Erik,

Your scenario sounds very much like that of Lindsay’s The Late Great Planet Earth of 40 years ago. What other prophecy writers have influenced your thinking?

1. Do you think the alliance of Daniel’s ten kings (EU) is yet future, or might you and the prophecy experts missed it when it came to pass?

2. How about the “little horn” (diverse from the others) that comes up among the ten? Do you think this is yet future, or might you and the experts have missed this historic event also?

Your second paragraph speaks about the apostate Christian church centered in Rome on seven mountains.

3. Are you saying that the present church in Rome on seven mountains is not the harlot church … but will be a future church in Rome, but not the RCC?

Canada,

#1. I only read half of Lindsay's 1st book and stopped because I disagreed with his position on people being saved in the tribulation.

I have read the bible prophecy over and over and over.

#2. The little horn is a colony of Western Europe. The antichrist will come to power in that colony after God causes everyone to believe his lies who have rejected the truth of the gospel 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12. When Jesus comes back to save Israel, it will be the powers of the west that will fear Jesus and be his adversary Isaiah 59:18-60:2.

#3. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 all the people left in the Christian nations after the rapture who have herd and rejected the gospel will believe the antichrist and follow him. They will form an ecumenical apostate christian church which will be centered in Rome and be called Mystery Babylon the mother of harlots.

canada · Dec 26, 2012

Eric,

I may have to rephrase or repeat to learn the answers that I seek.

1. What writers on prophecy have influenced your thought process?

2. Do you believe the ten king alliance is the EU? (EEC)

3. Are you saying that the little horn is not a kingdom or horn?
Some expositors say it is the 11th horn to join the alliance ... others say it is not.

4. This is a repeat: Are you saying that the present church in Rome on seven mountains is not the harlot church ... but will be a
future church in Rome, but not the RCC?

DutchChristian · Dec 27, 2012

All these questions they are not really all that important!

as

We must walk by faith and not by sight.

O sure it might be nice to know but who says that your interpretation is the correct one? i am sure that The LORD Will Reveal in His time if He Sees it to be fit for you to know. Maybe we are already dead when this is going to take place and what is your private interpretation going to help you then? Does it do you any good if you would know all but before it's time?

Just believe what is written, it is fine if you do not find your answer immediately. i also do not understand things about the Bible and there is so much that a man cannot know, just accept it and do not dwell on these things for too long lest ye be carnal and carried away by it.

Trust in HIM!

Be ye careful with watching for end time signs all day also (as the devil can waste your time by you doing that) and there are many people who want to know all about the end times and want to figure out everything they can about the endtimes BUT where is their walk with the LORD today? they often tend to forget the most important = GOD and to do His Will every day and so instead they get carried away by following after all these signs such as: the nonsense about 2012, trying to figure out the "rapture" date and want to know all about the end times and so get weary and negligent to: walk with The LORD today! and every day!

For we walk by faith, not by sight!

Have Faith in GOD! God Will Reveal in due time, do not follow after all these so called specialized: "end-time teachers" i believe all of them are set out to deceive either in one form or another.

Go by the Word of GOD Only!

Eric E Stahl · Dec 27, 2012

canada said:
Eric,

I may have to rephrase or repeat to learn the answers that I seek.

1. What writers on prophecy have influenced your thought process?

2. Do you believe the ten king alliance is the EU? (EEC)

3. Are you saying that the little horn is not a kingdom or horn?
Some expositors say it is the 11th horn to join the alliance ... others say it is not.

4. This is a repeat: Are you saying that the present church in Rome on seven mountains is not the harlot church ... but will be a
future church in Rome, but not the RCC?

Eric E Stahl · Dec 27, 2012

DutchChristian said:
All these questions they are not really all that important!

as

We must walk by faith and not by sight.

O sure it might be nice to know but who says that your interpretation is the correct one? i am sure that The LORD Will Reveal in His time if He Sees it to be fit for you to know. Maybe we are already dead when this is going to take place and what is your private interpretation going to help you then? Does it do you any good if you would know all but before it's time?

Just believe what is written, it is fine if you do not find your answer immediately. i also do not understand things about the Bible and there is so much that a man cannot know, just accept it and do not dwell on these things for too long lest ye be carnal and carried away by it.

Trust in HIM!

Be ye careful with watching for end time signs all day also (as the devil can waste your time by you doing that) and there are many people who want to know all about the end times and want to figure out everything they can about the endtimes BUT where is their walk with the LORD today? they often tend to forget the most important = GOD and to do His Will every day and so instead they get carried away by following after all these signs such as: the nonsense about 2012, trying to figure out the "rapture" date and want to know all about the end times and so get weary and negligent to: walk with The LORD today! and every day!

For we walk by faith, not by sight!

Have Faith in GOD! God Will Reveal in due time, do not follow after all these so called specialized: "end-time teachers" i believe all of them are set out to deceive either in one form or another.

Go by the Word of GOD Only!

In Revelation 19:10 We are told that "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." The study of prophecy is the study of Jesus. The people who are serious about prophecy are usually willing to witness because they understand Jesus is coming soon.

In 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 we are told to watch for the signs of the day of the Lord because we are children of light and should not be over taken as a thief when it comes.

The rapture comes before the day of the Lord so when we see the signs for the day of the Lord we know the rapture is very near!

jari · Dec 27, 2012

2Th 2:1-3 2 Now, dear brothers and sisters,[a] let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him. 2 Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us. 3 Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction.[c]
- NLT

christians who think Jesus will come before the Son of perdition are in error according to 2th 2.

but "anti-christ" isn't also very good term for the discussion because only john uses that word in 1Jn 2:18 .

Warped Warriors · Dec 27, 2012

canada said:
Now, understanding that, do we agree or disagree that a pope could be the miracle working False Prophet of Rev 13?

We do not agree, unless Prince Charles becomes the pope.

DutchChristian said:
Be ye careful with watching for end time signs all day also (as the devil can waste your time by you doing that)

Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. (2 Timothy 4:8)

Eric E Stahl said:
In Revelation 19:10 We are told that "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." The study of prophecy is the study of Jesus. The people who are serious about prophecy are usually willing to witness because they understand Jesus is coming soon.

In 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 we are told to watch for the signs of the day of the Lord because we are children of light and should not be over taken as a thief when it comes.

The rapture comes before the day of the Lord so when we see the signs for the day of the Lord we know the rapture is very near!

Truly agreed. Amen.

jari said:
but "anti-christ" isn't also very good term for the discussion because only john uses that word in 1Jn 2:18 .

I'm sure you already know the 46 titles of the Antichrist. "Willful king", "Idol shepherd", "Prince who shall come", "Beast out of the sea"... My personal favorite is Prince William. (The "father" and "firstborn son" diabolical duo that rise from within the boundaries of the Roman Empire) - Isaiah 14:14: For Satan to be "like" God, he MUST imitate the Father, Son, and Spirit Godhead.

The word "like" in this passage, is the Hebrew word (damah - H1819) which means:
"To compare, to resemble, to liken, to be like, to use similitudes."

Jehovah is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (1 John 5:7)

The False Prophet will be the earthly father of the Antichrist. In (Hebrews 1:6) Jehovah tells all of His angels to worship His firstborn Son Jesus; likewise the False Prophet will demand everyone to worship his firstborn son, the Antichrist or be killed. (Revelation 13:12, 15) Since the Antichrist is a prince who becomes king, then his father is either a prince or a king also.

Growing up, I heard and still hear that Satan represents the unholy father, the Antichrist represents the unholy son and the False Prophet represents the unholy spirit. Really? If you logically think about this, you would then be looking for a man (the Antichrist) and a spirit (the False Prophet) - even though normally we can't see the spirit world.

As Sir Robert Anderson tell us in his book, The Coming Prince: "The mystery of the Godhead will thus be parodied by the mystery of iniquity, and the Father, the Son, and the Spirit will have their counterpart in the Dragon, the Beast, and the False Prophet" (pg. 137).

This teaching is thoroughly taught throughout the Church, as Got Questions?.org validates.

However, ONLY Satan out of these three is a spirit. Satan himself does not have a body. ONLY the Antichrist and the False Prophet have a body. By the process of elimination we can create a clearer and more complete concept. Since Satan is a spirit, he properly represents the unholy spirit, the Antichrist represents the unholy son and the False Prophet represents the unholy father.

This is the main reason why no one can tell you who these two Beasts are, because no one understands the correct relationship between them.

We pray that the Church (including Pastors, Bible Prophecy teachers, Seminary professors, scholars and theologians) will one day take a stand and correct this teaching.

father - The False Prophet - (The Beast out of the Earth) - Isa
son - The Antichrist - (The Beast out of the Sea) - Mahdi
spirit - The Dragon - (Satan)

DutchChristian · Dec 27, 2012

We walk by faith and not by sight.

canada · Dec 27, 2012

jari said:
2Th 2:1-3 2 Now, dear brothers and sisters,[a] let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him. 2 Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us. 3 Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction.[c]
- NLT

christians who think Jesus will come before the Son of perdition are in error according to 2th 2.

but "anti-christ" isn't also very good term for the discussion because only john uses that word in 1Jn 2:18 .

I agree with you Jari on both points. Jesus does not return prior to the revealing ... however, the Reformation saints and martyrs did reveal him ... that is, the papacy sitting in the temple as God. The "Vicar" of Christ ... in place of Christ.

And as you said "antichrist" is not the best term to use for a discussion.

Eric E Stahl · Dec 27, 2012

canada · Dec 27, 2012

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ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Eric,

You had asked a question of me regarding the nation on the other side of the world from Israel as being the strongest nation on Earth.

Pretty clear that would be the USA … unless the EU nations joined their armies together, which is highly unlikely, as they cannot agree much on anything.

My study of prophecy was similar to yours, in that I spent hours on Daniel and Revelation before I came to the Lord, and a considerable amount of time during the last 30 years.

However, I did read much of the writings of the historicists, (such as Isaac Newton, Gratton Guinness, Spurgeon etc) as I definitely did not believe that God would only enlighten you and I on this subject!!

There are sincere futurist prophecy writers, but I believe most jumped on the Jesuit promoted and John Darby bandwagon and have thoroughly missed some biblically historic events, as I believe you have also.

The ten kings of the revived Roman Empire (EU) has already come to pass and the experts missed it.

The “little horn” did appear, but as Daniel told us, he was not the eleventh horn to join the ten, but rather to come up among them.

This “little horn” is the small but most powerful kingdom of the Vatican, and it’s charismatic pope at that time … John Paul II.

You will recall that Daniel said this little horn would be “diverse” from the other horns, and who would deny that the Vatican Kingdom is most diverse from all other kingdoms.

As I noted in another thread, the Vatican hierarchy is the False Prophet. The word “vatic” means “prophecy” or “prophet”.

VATIC = VATICAN = PROPHET = FALSE PROPHET

The Reformation saints and martyrs clearly told us that the papacy was “anti” Christ, but the world has forgotten that.

It displays the mark of the beast on the right hand and forehead.
It’s “papal peter” is the image with eyes and a mouth that dies yet comes to life, and it fulfills the 666 number prophecy in spades.

I was a “futurist” for ten years, and my library was full of their “predictions”.

This is the luxury of the futurist writer. He can tell you any scenario he wishes, and as long as it has not come to pass, he can not be proven wrong … it is always … “going to happen”.

It was Sir Isaac Newton (who wrote more on Bible prophecy than his scientific discoveries) that said, we are not to become prophets, but to recognize the event after it comes to pass.

Thanks to the Jesuits Alcazar Lacunza and Ribera who promoted preterism and futurism … along with the Protestant John Darby, and most of Protestantism today has been suckered into these systems of interpretation.

As long as students of prophecy believe John Darby’s “twist” of Dan 9:27 and believe that this is “anti” Christ rather than Jesus Christ they will never, never, never come to understand.

Their ”anti” Christ will always be “in the future”.

jari · Dec 28, 2012

canada said:
I agree with you Jari on both points. Jesus does not return prior to the revealing ... however, the Reformation saints and martyrs did reveal him ... that is, the papacy sitting in the temple as God. The "Vicar" of Christ ... in place of Christ.

And as you said "antichrist" is not the best term to use for a discussion.

pope never came with miracles...

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

canada · Dec 28, 2012

Jari ... you said pope never came with miracles.

You are definitely wrong. They come with many many lying signs and wonders.
They miraculously turn wine into the literal blood of Jesus in their abominable "mass".

Is that not a "miracle" according to them?

More "miracles" have been attributed to Roman Catholicism than any other organization in the world.

Have you never heard of the many many "weeping" images of Mary?
The coagulated blood that has turned into liquid blood.

They have even "brought fire to come down from heaven" in the sight of men.

Protestantism has been suckered into their subtle deceptions.
Do you say "Merry Christ Mass"?

You are saying Merry Ho Ho death of Jesus.
Jesus' sacrifice was not sufficient for them ... they have to re sacrifice Him daily ... again and again and again.

Wake up Protestants!

jari · Dec 28, 2012

canada said:
Jari ... you said pope never came with miracles.

You are definitely wrong. They come with many many lying signs and wonders.
They miraculously turn wine into the literal blood of Jesus in their abominable "mass".

Is that not a "miracle" according to them?

More "miracles" have been attributed to Roman Catholicism than any other organization in the world.

Have you never heard of the many many "weeping" images of Mary?
The coagulated blood that has turned into liquid blood.

They have even "brought fire to come down from heaven" in the sight of men.

Protestantism has been suckered into their subtle deceptions.
Do you say "Merry Christ Mass"?

You are saying Merry Ho Ho death of Jesus.
Jesus' sacrifice was not sufficient for them ... they have to re sacrifice Him daily ... again and again and again.

Wake up Protestants!

yes but these are not individuals doings but group's.

and if son of perdition is same as Beast of revelation then All humans should take it's mark.

but catholism has not subdued everyone.

Welcome!

False prophet ... "anti" christ?

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