False prophet ... "anti" christ?

Eric E Stahl · Dec 28, 2012

The Catholic branch of Christianity are those that have become hypocrites in the latter times forbidding to marry and to abstain from meats 1 Timothy 4:1-3. They have followed deceiving spirits but they are not the antichrist.

canada · Dec 28, 2012

jari said:
yes but these are not individuals doings but group's.

and if son of perdition is same as Beast of revelation then All humans should take it's mark.

but catholism has not subdued everyone.

You are reasoning as a futurist Jari

canada · Dec 28, 2012

Eric E Stahl said:
The Catholic branch of Christianity are those that have become hypocrites in the latter times forbidding to marry and to abstain from meats 1 Timothy 4:1-3. They have followed deceiving spirits but they are not the antichrist.

You are correct Eric ... the Catholic hierarchy is not the antichrist ... it is "THE" False Prophet

David777 · Dec 28, 2012

canada said:
You are correct Eric ... the Catholic hierarchy is not the antichrist ... it is "THE" False Prophet

Hello canada.

I noticed in an earlier post that you remarked
that Jari was a futurist.

Matthew 4
4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live on bread alone,
but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.’”

All you need to do canada is post a scripture or two
supporting your viewpoint. This will allow others to
understand why you make such comments.

Eric E Stahl · Dec 28, 2012

canada said:
You are correct Eric ... the Catholic hierarchy is not the antichrist ... it is "THE" False Prophet

Canada,

The false prophet is an individual not an organization Revelation 13:11-13. The false prophet could be the pope at that time but if he is, he would have to give up the leadership of the ecumenical apostate church which rules the kings of the earth. In other words the pope would have to step down from being number one to being number two in world leadership! I think the pope will die with Mystery Babylon.

canada · Dec 29, 2012

Eric,

I seriously suggest you check out your Greek/English interlinear. You claim that the False Prophet is a person not an organization. The literal Greek proves you wrong. The False Prophet is described as ... IT ... not he.

THE FALSE PROPHET WAS REVEALED

Where were the watchmen on the wall?

The False Prophet of Revelation 13 was revealed in his time.
IT was revealed by the Reformation saints and martyrs who suffered greatly.

And I behold another beast coming up out of the earth: and IT had two horns like a lamb and IT spake as a dragon.

And IT exerciseth all the power of the first beast before IT, and causeth the earth and them that dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. Rev 13:11-12.

The Vatican hierarchy and it's papal system IS the False Prophet. The word "vatic" means "prophet".

VATIC = PROPHET = VATICAN = FALSE PROPHET

jari · Dec 29, 2012

canada said:
You are reasoning as a futurist Jari

no im reasoning as me

Eric E Stahl · Dec 29, 2012

canada said:
Eric,

I seriously suggest you check out your Greek/English interlinear. You claim that the False Prophet is a person not an organization. The literal Greek proves you wrong. The False Prophet is described as ... IT ... not he.

THE FALSE PROPHET WAS REVEALED

Where were the watchmen on the wall?

The False Prophet of Revelation 13 was revealed in his time.
IT was revealed by the Reformation saints and martyrs who suffered greatly.

And I behold another beast coming up out of the earth: and IT had two horns like a lamb and IT spake as a dragon.

And IT exerciseth all the power of the first beast before IT, and causeth the earth and them that dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. Rev 13:11-12.

The Vatican hierarchy and it's papal system IS the False Prophet. The word "vatic" means "prophet".

VATIC = PROPHET = VATICAN = FALSE PROPHET

Warped Warriors · Dec 29, 2012

Canada,

What kind of a bible are you using that replaces he with it?

In Revelation 13:11–18, we see that the False Prophet comes as a counterfeit lamb of God. He will have miraculous powers that he will use to promote the Antichrist, who will be wounded as unto death. The False Prophet will do great wonders, deceive the world, and make an image of the Antichrist that will be placed in the rebuilt Jewish temple in Jerusalem. The image of the Antichrist known as the abomination of desolation will probably be seen all over the world, if television and the Internet are still functional.[/QUOTE]

So true. Amen.
My Bible says "he". :shade:

"and he spake as a dragon."

"laleo" - (2980) - This word focuses on the articulated, distinct sound of the formed word in human language. - (Strong's Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with the best of Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words)

"laleo" - (2980) - To use words in order to declare one's mind and disclose one's thoughts; to speak. - (Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament)

An it does not have a mind, nor thoughts to be able to articulate formed words. This must be performed by an individual.

canada said:
Eric,

I seriously suggest you check out your Greek/English interlinear. You claim that the False Prophet is a person not an organization. The literal Greek proves you wrong. The False Prophet is described as ... IT ... not he.

Please give reference to this; as I cannot find it in any of my references.

canada · Dec 29, 2012

Eric ... was the NT written in Greek or English?

You use the KJV ... I also. Again, research the literal translation of your KJV from a Greek/English interlinear.

Do you trust man, or the Greek text?

Good for you Jari. You are comfortable with what you have been taught, as I also held similar understandings for ten years.

Peace brother.

canada · Dec 29, 2012

THE INTERLINEAR GREEK - ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT

The Nestle Greek text with a literal English translation
by The Reverend Alfred Marshall D.Litt.

And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth and it had horns two like to a lamb and spoke as a dragon. Rev 13:11

I do not understand Greek, and can only read what is in front of me. Are you saying this literal translation of the Greek into English is in error? I only have this one interlinear and am ready to stand corrected if it is, as we are all here to seek His truth.

Regarding the papal hierarchy as being the False Prophet, an individual pope would be "he" but would it not be in order to refer to the papacy or papal line as "it" ?

jari · Dec 30, 2012

canada said:
Good for you Jari. You are comfortable with what you have been taught, as I also held similar understandings for ten years.

i already said it was my reasoning.. it was not taught to me.

canada · Dec 30, 2012

Warped Warriors, you said:

"An it does not have a mind, nor thoughts to be able to articulate formed words. This must be performed by an individual."

Your comment seems appropriate to a current event.

The Vatican hierarchy is a religious organization. Congress is a political organization.

It would appear that it cannot make up it's mind regarding their fiscal cliff.

canada · Dec 30, 2012

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> WHO OR WHAT IS THE SECOND BEAST OF REV 13?

The Bible refers to he or it, as the False (religious) Prophet. Students of prophecy from the past, such as the Reformation saints and martyrs, and many present day expositors indicate that the biblical description refers to the Church Of Rome and it’s pope or papacy throughout the ages.
I agree … I believe the Vatican hierarchy (Bishops and Cardinals etc) AND its papacy is the entity described as being the False Prophet.
The word “vatic” means … prophet.

VATIC = VATICAN = PROPHET = FALSE PROPHET

If we use our Bibles only, and not our presuppositions, can we determine whether the False Prophet is a “he” … or an … “it”?
The following versions render the False Prophet as … “he”.
Amplified Version
KJV and NKJ Version
Mounce Reverse Interlinear
New American Standard

The following versions render the False Prophet as … “it”.
New International Version
American Standard
Common English Bible
Darby Translation
English Standard Version
J.B. Phillips New Testament
Young’s Literal Translation
Wycliffe Bible

My Greek/English Interlinear renders “it” also.

Well, I believe both are correct. If the False Prophet is the decision making Vatican hierarchy with its bishops and cardinals, than “it” is appropriate.

I hope this will help you Warped Warriors and Eric.
His truth is precious.

canada · Dec 31, 2012

canada said:
 WHO OR WHAT IS THE SECOND BEAST OF REV 13?

The Bible refers to he or it, as the False (religious) Prophet. Students of prophecy from the past, such as the Reformation saints and martyrs, and many present day expositors indicate that the biblical description refers to the Church Of Rome and it’s pope or papacy throughout the ages.
I agree … I believe the Vatican hierarchy (Bishops and Cardinals etc) AND its papacy is the entity described as being the False Prophet.
The word “vatic” means … prophet.

VATIC = VATICAN = PROPHET = FALSE PROPHET

If we use our Bibles only, and not our presuppositions, can we determine whether the False Prophet is a “he” … or an … “it”?
The following versions render the False Prophet as … “he”.
Amplified Version
KJV and NKJ Version
Mounce Reverse Interlinear
New American Standard

The following versions render the False Prophet as … “it”.
New International Version
American Standard
Common English Bible
Darby Translation
English Standard Version
J.B. Phillips New Testament
Young’s Literal Translation
Wycliffe Bible

My Greek/English Interlinear renders “it” also.

Well, I believe both are correct. If the False Prophet is the decision making Vatican hierarchy with its bishops and cardinals, than “it” is appropriate.

I hope this will help you Warped Warriors and Eric.
His truth is precious.

Eric and Warped Warriors,

Are you satisfied with the biblical references I provided that there is merit to refer to the False Prophet as "it"?
I found another Greek/English interlinear that translates "it" also, but if either of you come across others, I would appreciate that information.

What say ye?

jari · Jan 1, 2013

if pope or catholism is the son of perdition why would this be called the great falling away? and why would God cause them to be deceived? (2 Thes 2:11)
there are other false religions too which keep people in them like islam or hinduism. not to mention atheists. why would God's wrath and satans work focus vehemently on this single group only?
of course this is the devils style to appear as godly and as jesus follower, minister of light and have false gospel. but any false religion is the same in the end.

catholism isnt the only christian group with false gospel but many christian denominations have false beliefs or entire false gospel. like the mormons or jehovas witnesses.

so i wonder why would catholism get sort of special treatment?

canada · Jan 1, 2013

jari said:
if pope or catholism is the son of perdition why would this be called the great falling away? and why would God cause them to be deceived? (2 Thes 2:11)
there are other false religions too which keep people in them like islam or hinduism. not to mention atheists. why would God's wrath and satans work focus vehemently on this single group only?
of course this is the devils style to appear as godly and as jesus follower, minister of light and have false gospel. but any false religion is the same in the end.

catholism isnt the only christian group with false gospel but many christian denominations have false beliefs or entire false gospel. like the mormons or jehovas witnesses.

so i wonder why would catholism get sort of special treatment?

Yari,

If I understand what the Reformers said about the "falling away", it would be a falling away from the truth of the gospel ... saved by faith and not by works and traditions of the Church of Rome.

The Church of Rome also fell away from the authority of the Bible only ... sola scriptura.

You also asked why the Church of Rome would get special treatment? Why would God deceive them etc?

My opinion only, but I would think God would do this because Rome claims its pope is "in the place of" Christ.
The pope is "instead of" Christ. The pope is a "substitute" for Christ. God (and Protestants) would consider their claim to be blasphemous. You will recall the three meanings of "anti" in Strongs Concordance # 473

The pope is ... "anti" ... Christ.

Eric E Stahl · Jan 1, 2013

Canada,

The false prophet is an individual.

Revelation 13:11–18 KJV 11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had
two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

In Revelation 13:11–18, we see that the False Prophet comes as a counterfeit lamb of God. He will have miraculous powers that he will use to promote the Antichrist, who will be wounded as unto death. The False Prophet will do great wonders, deceive the world, and make an image of the Antichrist that will be placed in the rebuilt Jewish temple in Jerusalem. The image of the Antichrist known as the abomination of desolation will probably be seen all over the world, if television and the Internet are still functional.

canada · Jan 1, 2013

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w

unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Eric,

How can you deny a biblical truth when it is presented to you?
You cling to your presuppositions, and can not even concede that “it”
has merit for the interpretation of a prophecy.

Four Bible versions render the False Prophet as “he”.

Eight Bible versions render the False Prophet as “it”.

Plus an additional two Greek/English interlinears as “it” also.

With such a closed mind, I believe you are limiting your research as an effective student of prophecy.

jari · Jan 2, 2013

canada said:
If I understand what the Reformers said about the "falling away", it would be a falling away from the truth of the gospel ... saved by faith and not by works and traditions of the Church of Rome.

The Church of Rome also fell away from the authority of the Bible only ... sola scriptura.

You also asked why the Church of Rome would get special treatment? Why would God deceive them etc?

My opinion only, but I would think God would do this because Rome claims its pope is "in the place of" Christ.
The pope is "instead of" Christ. The pope is a "substitute" for Christ. God (and Protestants) would consider their claim to be blasphemous. You will recall the three meanings of "anti" in Strongs Concordance # 473

The pope is ... "anti" ... Christ.

those are good points but I was wondering about all the other false religions. and christinanity has orhodox church and many churches as result of reformation like lutheran churches. so you could see this as lot of falling away from the truth but not all is due to papal authority. so who there really is to blame for all the denominations? of course satan but not papal only. today christians could unite but they don't and have many false gospels and anti-christ churches. (if anti christ here is church who leads people to it and it's false doctrines rather than to God through Christ.)

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False prophet ... "anti" christ?

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