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False prophet ... "anti" christ?

Canada,"Eric, you said: "Jesus will not be judging any organization to cast it into hell! Only individuals are judged and cast into hell. Canada I know this does not fit with your opinion but think about it."

I have considered it and rejected it. When God destroys Mystery, Babylon that is, that great city and organization that reigns over kings of the earth ... Vatican City and its religious organization will be cast into hell and will be an everlasting witness to the world of the power of God."


Mystery Babylon will be destroyed at Gods direction by the ten kings who have conquered the earth but the bible does not say it is cast into hell. The unsaved people in the apostate church will go to hell when they die.
 
David,

Revelation 11:1–2 KJV
11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

This passage explains that John is told to measure the temple, but what temple is that? The temple in Jerusalem is going to be rebuilt! Verse two points out that the courtyard of the temple is given to the Gentiles. What does that tell you?
The Jews will have only part of the temple mount to rebuild the tribulation temple. Presently, they don’t have the use of any of the temple mount. The last half of verse two states that the Gentiles (anyone not Jewish) will have control of Jerusalem for forty-two months, or half of the tribulation period. That means the Jews will lose control of the temple and Jerusalem for the last half of the tribulation period.

Good point Eric.

It is difficult to believe that the Jews could take
control of the temple mount from the muslims.
Muslims built a mosque on the site and it is the
third most important location for Islam.

If the Jews lose control of the temple and
Jerusalem, then who do you think is controlling
the temple? Muslims?
 
Good point Eric.

It is difficult to believe that the Jews could take
control of the temple mount from the muslims.
Muslims built a mosque on the site and it is the
third most important location for Islam.

If the Jews lose control of the temple and
Jerusalem, then who do you think is controlling
the temple? Muslims?

Most of the Muslims will be allied to Maygog (Russia) Ezekiel 38:1-12 when God puts a hook in it's jaw and draws them against the antichrist and Israel Daniel 43b-45. The tribes of Sheba and Dedan which are the Muslims in Arabia will still be allied to the western powers, Israel and the antichrist Ezekiel 38:13. The local Arabs will already have been destroyed by Israel and the antichrist Daniel 11:40-43a.

The antichrist will turn on Israel and break the covenant Daniel 9:27 at the middle of the tribulation, after the western powers under and antichrist have control of the earth.
 
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Warped Warriors,

It was this teaching (not the rapture) that others jumped onto Darby's bandwagon of "antichrist" rather than Jesus Christ.

Thank you for the clarification... I havent fully researched the history of the interpretation of this verse - (just bits here and there). I think I remember reading something along those lines before though. I'll check it out.
 
That great city clothed in purple and scarlet.

And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying. Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down and shall be found no more at all. Rev 18:20-21.

My second "prediction" ... I better be careful or I may be mistaken for a futurist!

God will destroy that "religious" city by a volcanic eruption with flowing lava as an ever burning witness to the world.

Fact ... Vatican City is built upon volcanic rock.
 
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Warped Warriors,

Just to clear a point I made about John Darby.
I was not referring to his view of the rapture, but rather that prior to him, conservative scholars considered Daniel 9:27 to be about Jesus Christ, who in the midst of the week ... that is, after 3 1/2 years of His ministry, He caused the need for the sacrificing of animals to cease because of His one time sacrifice for our sins.

You noted dispensationalism and pretribulation in your reply so I thought you might have been responding to the rapture comment rather than He being Jesus Christ.

It was this teaching (not the rapture) that others jumped onto Darby's bandwagon of "antichrist" rather than Jesus Christ.

As a result of Darby's twist, the Scofield Reference Bible and the Dallas School of Interpretation bought fully into it ... along with the Jesuits, as it served their purpose of a future "antichrist" rather than the Reformation claim that the papacy was and is the beast.


How did Irenaeus and Hippolytus interpret this verse?

4. The Lord also spoke as follows to those who did not believe in Him: “I have come in my Father's name, and you have not received Me: when another shall come in his own name, him you will receive,” John 5:43 calling Antichrist “the other,” because he is alienated from the Lord. This is also the unjust judge, whom the Lord mentioned as one “who feared not God, neither regarded man,” Luke 18:2, etc. to whom the widow fled in her forgetfulness of God—that is, the earthly Jerusalem,— to be avenged of her adversary. Which also he shall do in the time of his kingdom: he shall remove his kingdom into that [city], and shall sit in the temple of God, leading astray those who worship him, as if he were Christ. To this purpose Daniel says again: “And he shall desolate the holy place; and sin has been given for a sacrifice, and righteousness been cast away in the earth, and he has been active (fecit), and gone on prosperously.” Daniel 8:12 And the angel Gabriel, when explaining his vision, states with regard to this person: “And towards the end of their kingdom a king of a most fierce countenance shall arise, one understanding [dark] questions, and exceedingly powerful, full of wonders; and he shall corrupt, direct, influence (faciet), and put strong men down, the holy people likewise; and his yoke shall be directed as a wreath [round their neck]; deceit shall be in his hand, and he shall be lifted up in his heart: he shall also ruin many by deceit, and lead many to perdition, bruising them in his hand like eggs.” Daniel 8:23, etc. And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: “And in the midst of the week,” he says, “the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete.” Daniel 9:27 Now three years and six months constitute the half-week. - (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 5, Chp. 25) - newadvent.org/fathers/0103525.htm

Irenaeus clearly interprets the one confirming the covenant with the many for one week is the future Antichrist.

43. With respect, then, to the particular judgment in the torments that are to come upon it in the last times by the hand of the tyrants who shall arise then, the clearest statement has been given in these passages. But it becomes us further diligently to examine and set forth the period at which these things shall come to pass, and how the little horn shall spring up in their midst. For when the legs of iron have issued in the feet and toes, according to the similitude of the image and that of the terrible beast, as has been shown in the above, (then shall be the time) when the iron and the clay shall be mingled together. Now Daniel will set forth this subject to us. For he says, “And one week will make a covenant with many, and it shall be that in the midst (half) of the week my sacrifice and oblation shall cease.” Daniel 9:27 By one week, therefore, he meant the last week which is to be at the end of the whole world of which week the two prophets Enoch and Elias will take up the half. For they will preach 1, 260 days clothed in sackcloth, proclaiming repentance to the people and to all the nations. - [Hippolytus - Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 43] - newadvent.org/fathers/0516.htm

And at first, indeed, that deceitful and lawless one, with crafty deceitfulness, will refuse such glory; but the men persisting, and holding by him, will declare him king. And thereafter he will be lifted up in heart, and he who was formerly gentle will become violent, and he who pursued love will become pitiless, and the humble in heart will become haughty and inhuman, and the hater of unrighteousness will persecute the righteous. Then, when he is elevated to his kingdom, he will marshal war; and in his wrath he will smite three mighty kings,—those, namely, of Egypt, Libya, and Ethiopia. And after that he will build the temple in Jerusalem, and will restore it again speedily, and give it over to the Jews. And then he will be lifted up in heart against every man; yea, he will speak blasphemy also against God, thinking in his deceit that he shall be king upon the earth hereafter for ever; not knowing, miserable wretch, that his kingdom is to be quickly brought to nought, and that he will quickly have to meet the fire which is prepared for him, along with all who trust him and serve him. For when Daniel said, “I shall make my covenant for one week,” he indicated seven years; and the one half of the week is for the preaching of the prophets, and for the other half of the week—that is to say, for three years and a half—Antichrist will reign upon the earth. And after this his kingdom and his glory shall be taken away. Behold, ye who love God, what manner of tribulation there shall rise in those days, such as has not been from the foundation of the world, no, nor ever shall be, except in those days alone. Then the lawless one, being lifted up in heart, will gather together his demons in man’s form, and will abominate those who call him to the kingdom, and will pollute many souls. - [Appendix to the Works of Hippolytus, XXV] - ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf05.iii.v.i.xxv.html

Hippolytus also interprets the one confirming the covenant with the many for one week is the future Antichrist.
 
Most of the Muslims will be allied to Maygog (Russia) Ezekiel 38:1-12 when God puts a hook in it's jaw and draws them against the antichrist and Israel Daniel 43b-45. The tribes of Sheba and Dedan which are the Muslims in Arabia will still be allied to the western powers, Israel and the antichrist Ezekiel 38:13. The local Arabs will already have been destroyed by Israel and the antichrist Daniel 11:40-43a.

The antichrist will turn on Israel and break the covenant Daniel 9:27 at the middle of the tribulation, after the western powers under and antichrist have control of the earth.

Hello Eric.

What does this verse mean?

Daniel 12
11 From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and
the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
12 How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!
 
Thank you Warped Warriors,

I was not aware of Iraneus and Hippolytus interpretation.
Perhaps Darby only promoted this view, not the originator.

With your research, might you be able to find those who interpreted contrary to those two?
 
Hello Eric.

What does this verse mean?

Daniel 12
11 From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and
the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
12 How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!

David,

I believe the abomination of desolation will happen 30 days before the middle of the tribulation.

Some teach that the extra 45 days is the completion of the judgment of the sheep and goats Matthew 25:31-46 and the beginning of the new life in the kingdom.
 
Thank you Warped Warriors,

I was not aware of Iraneus and Hippolytus interpretation.
Perhaps Darby only promoted this view, not the originator.

With your research, might you be able to find those who interpreted contrary to those two?

Other Anti-Nicene Fathers on Daniel 9:27 -

Clement of Alexandria - The Stromata (Book I, Ch. 25) = Christ

"That the temple accordingly was built in seven weeks, is evident; for it is written in Esdras. And thus Christ became King of the Jews, reigning in Jerusalem in the fulfilment of the seven weeks. And in the sixty and two weeks the whole of Judæa was quiet, and without wars. And Christ our Lord, “the Holy of Holies,” having come and fulfilled the vision and the prophecy, was anointed in His flesh by the Holy Spirit of His Father. In those “sixty and two weeks,” as the prophet said, and “in the one week,” was He Lord. The half of the week Nero held sway, and in the holy city Jerusalem placed the abomination; and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius." - newadvent.org/fathers/02101.htm

Tertullian - An Answer to the Jews (Chapter 8) = Christ

"Accordingly the times must be inquired into of the predicted and future nativity of the Christ, and of His passion, and of the extermination of the city of Jerusalem, that is, its devastation. For Daniel says, that “both the holy city and the holy place are exterminated together with the coming Leader, and that the pinnacle is destroyed unto ruin.” And so the times of the coming Christ, the Leader, Isaiah 55:4 must be inquired into, which we shall trace in Daniel; and, after computing them, shall prove Him to be come, even on the ground of the times prescribed, and of competent signs and operations of His. Which matters we prove, again, on the ground of the consequences which were ever announced as to follow His advent; in order that we may believe all to have been as well fulfilled as foreseen... In such wise, therefore, did Daniel predict concerning Him, as to show both when and in what time He was to set the nations free; and how, after the passion of the Christ, that city had to be exterminated... Observe we, therefore, the limit—how, in truth, he predicts that there are to be lxx hebdomads, within which if they receive Him, “it shall be built into height and entrenchment, and the times shall be renewed.” But God, foreseeing what was to be— that they will not merely not receive Him, but will both persecute and deliver Him to death— both recapitulated, and said, that in lx and ii and an half of an hebdomad He is born, and an holy one of holy ones is anointed; but that when vii hebdomads and an half were fulfilling, He had to suffer, and the holy city had to be exterminated after one and an half hebdomad— whereby namely, the seven and an half hebdomads have been completed. For he says thus: “And the city and the holy place to be exterminated together with the leader who is to come; and they shall be cut short as in a deluge; and he shall destroy the pinnacle unto ruin.” Whence, therefore, do we show that the Christ came within the lxii and an half hebdomads?" - newadvent.org/fathers/0308.htm

Origen - Origen Against Celsus (Book VI ch. 46) = Antichrist

"To explain each particular here referred to does not belong to our present purpose. The prophecy also regarding Antichrist is stated in the book of Daniel, and is fitted to make an intelligent and candid reader admire the words as truly divine and prophetic; for in them are mentioned the things relating to the coming kingdom, beginning with the times of Daniel, and continuing to the destruction of the world. And any one who chooses may read it. Observe, however, whether the prophecy regarding Antichrist be not as follows: “And at the latter time of their kingdom, when their sins are coming to the full, there shall arise a king, bold in countenance, and understanding riddles. And his power shall be great, and he shall destroy wonderfully, and prosper, and practise; and shall destroy mighty men, and the holy people. And the yoke of his chain shall prosper: there is craft in his hand, and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by craft shall destroy many; and he shall stand up for the destruction of many, and shall crush them as eggs in his hand.” What is stated by Paul in the words quoted from him, where he says, “so that he sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God,” is in Daniel referred to in the following fashion: “And on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations, and at the end of the time an end shall be put to the desolation.” So many, out of a greater number of passages, have I thought it right to adduce, that the hearer may understand in some slight degree the meaning of holy Scripture, when it gives us information concerning the devil and Antichrist;" - newadvent.org/fathers/04166.htm


Victorinus - Commentary on the Apocalypse (From the Thirteenth chapter.) = Antichrist

"13. “And he shall make fire come down from heaven in the sight of men.” Yes (as I also have said), in the sight of men. Magicians do these things, by the aid of the apostate angels, even to this day. He shall cause also that a golden image of Antichrist shall be placed in the temple at Jerusalem, and that the apostate angel should enter, and thence utter voices and oracles. Moreover, he himself shall contrive that his servants and children should receive as a mark on their foreheads, or on their right hands, the number of his name, lest any one should buy or sell them. Daniel had previously predicted his contempt and provocation of God. “And he shall place,” says he, “his temple within Samaria, upon the illustrious and holy mountain that is at Jerusalem, an image such as Nebuchadnezzar had made.” Daniel 11:45 Thence here he places, and by and by here he renews, that of which the Lord, admonishing His churches concerning the last times and their dangers, says: “But when you shall see the contempt which is spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place, let him who reads understand.” Matthew 24:15; Daniel 9:27 It is called a contempt when God is provoked, because idols are worshipped instead of God, or when the dogma of heretics is introduced in the churches. But it is a turning away because steadfast men, seduced by false signs and portents, are turned away from their salvation. " - newadvent.org/fathers/0712.htm


Clement of Rome - Recognitions (Chapter LXIV.—Temple to Be Destroyed.) [SPURIOUS] = Antichrist

"For we,’ said I, ‘have ascertained beyond doubt that God is much rather displeased with the sacrifices which you offer, the time of sacrifices having now passed away; and because ye will not acknowledge that the time for offering victims is now past, therefore the temple shall be destroyed, and the abomination of desolation (592)- Dan. ix. 27; Matt. xxiv. 15. shall stand in the holy place; and then the Gospel shall be preached to the Gentiles for a testimony against you, that your unbelief may be judged by their faith." - ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf08.vi.iii.iii.lxiv.html


Add these together with Irenaeus and Hippolytus for the Anti-Nicene Fathers interpretation of Daniel 9:27, and you have:

Christ = 2
Antichrist = 5
 
Thanks Warped Warriors,

5 to 2 ... if we could come to the truth through majority of numbers, things would be so much simpler for us wouldn't it!
 
Thanks Warped Warriors,

5 to 2 ... if we could come to the truth through majority of numbers, things would be so much simpler for us wouldn't it!

Also, If we did this in regards to the proper order of the unholy trinity, then we would not come to the truth. For we are the only ones (that we know of) that are teaching that the Church has misinterpreted (misapplied) the "proper relationship" for their "functional equivalent".
 
I'm very happy to see so many people awake and watching for the return of Jesus. I can't say for sure who is exactly right because I don't think we've been given the entire revelation yet. I believe the time is here that people are beginning to understand. I think the most important thing when studying the end times is not to tie yourself down to one interpretation and say that "it must be this way or else". When Jesus came the first time there were many people looking for Him, but because He didn't fulfill prophecy the way that they had expected and believed they allowed themselves to be deceived and they missed it. The disciples had Jesus standing right in front of them and didn't understand it all until all things were fulfilled.

I have my own opinions on how everything is going to go down but the more I study the more things are revealed to me and I abandon traditions that I've been taught. The Lord is about to pour out His spirit in such a way that there will be a great revival like this world has never seen. When that time comes there will be understanding like no other time in history. The most important thing is to live the Word. The fear of the Lord brings understanding and the fear of the Lord is obeying His commandments. We can't understand it until we live it. The end times will play out exactly the way that God said they would whether it is according to the way we understand them or not. So the most important thing is to study so we have all of the word available from memory; stay watchful; and don't get tied down to our interpretations and traditions.

I love the thread though. Reading everyone's interpretations gives me different thoughts and perspectives and sometimes understanding of things I didn't have before. Thank you guys.
 
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