Figure of speech/colloquialism?

[rstrats]

oldhermit,
re: "I answered each of those points rather clearly in my post."

Again, points 1 through 6 are not intended for comment. They are merely setting forth the requisites for those to whom this topic is directed. Point #7 in post #41 is the only point to be addressed.

 

[Sue D.]

Isn't is more to the point that 'as Jonah was in the belly of the fish for 3 days , so the Son of Man will be in the earth for 3 days."
Matthew 12:40 -- which would be fact rather than figure of speech.

 

[rstrats]

Sue D.
re: "Isn't is more to the point that 'as Jonah was in the belly of the fish for 3 days , so the Son of Man will be in the earth for 3 days.' Matthew 12:40 -- which would be fact rather than figure of speech."

No, not for the purpose of this topic.

 

[Sue D.]

1. The Messiah said that three nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth".

2. There are some who believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

3. Of those, there are some who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.

4. However, those two beliefs allow for only 2 nights to be involved.

5. To account for the discrepancy, some of the above say that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language of the time, i.e., that it is was common to forecast or say that a day or a night would be involved with an event when no part of the day or no part of the night could occur.

6. In order for someone to legitimately say that it was common, they would have to know of more that 1 example to make that assertion.


I wonder if there is anyone here that knows of examples?

Your first point -- and That is based on the Matthew 12:40 passage.

 

[rstrats]

Sue D.
re: "Your first point -- and That is based on the Matthew 12:40 passage."

I'm afraid I don't see your point.

 

[Sue D.]

This is what Matthew 12:40 says. "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Jesus Christ arose early the first day of the week- so count Back three days and we get Wednesday for the day of the crucifixion. It's Also true that part of a day equals an entire day. which would put it sometime Thursday.

My point is that there's really no need For all kinds of speculation. Just suggestin........

 

[rstrats]

Sue D.
re: "Jesus Christ arose early the first day of the week- so count Back three days and we get Wednesday for the day of the crucifixion. It's Also true that part of a day equals an entire day. which would put it sometime Thursday."


And those are issues for a different topic.

 

[Sue D.]

Reading over the other comments -- your question seems to be about the fact that back then and in that culture or whatever it would be called. A part of one day was considered as a day -- it didn't Have to be an entire day to be Considered a day. That controversy has been around for a Long time. Particularly those who want to have Christ rising on Sabbath instead of 'early morning' on 1st day of the week. So -- what would constitute 'early morning'.

There are those who advocate Sabbath worship because of the Ten Commandments. And they see no reason to change the Sabbath worship to 1st day of the week / Sunday worship.

And there a passages in New Testament that says if a person wants to worship on the Sabbath let them -- if a person wants to worship on Sunday, let them. The important thing is taking time To worship.

 

[rstrats]

Sue D.,
re: "...your question seems to be about the fact that back then and in that culture or whatever it would be called. A part of one day was considered as a day -- it didn't Have to be an entire day to be Considered a day."

And that would be an issue for a different topic.



re: "There are those who advocate Sabbath worship because of the Ten Commandments. And they see no reason to change the Sabbath worship to 1st day of the week / Sunday worship."

That's an issue for a different topic.



re: "And there a passages in New Testament that says if a person wants to worship on the Sabbath let them -- if a person wants to worship on Sunday, let them."

And again, that's an issue for a different topic.

 

[Sue D.]

So - What ARE you trying to figure out?

 

[rstrats]

Sue D.,
re: "So - What ARE you trying to figure out?"

OK, one more time:

1. The Messiah said that three nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth".

2. There are some who believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

3. Of those, there are some who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.

4. However, those two beliefs allow for only 2 nights to be involved.

5. To account for the discrepancy, there may be some of those above who try to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language of the time, i.e., that it is was common to forecast or say that a day or a night would be involved with an event when no part of a day or no part of a night could occur.

6. However, for someone to legitimately say that it was common, they would have to know of examples in order to make that assertion.
I am simply asking anyone would falls in the above to provide actual examples to support the assertion of commonality.

 

[Sue D.]

Okay -- there probably Aren't any other examples simply because Jesus Christ is the only Son of God who the resurrection applied To. That was the only reason it Mattered whether part of a day or a full day took place. There Are those who don't want to accept that Jesus Christ really Was the Son of God. The book of Jonah was the Old Testament example of being in the 'earth' / belly of the great fish For 3 days and 3 nights. He was a 'type' of Christ.

No more 'common' Then than it would be Now.

And, in reality, Why would that matter? And I also realize that in a forum any one can bring up any question they want to.

Would it make that event any more authentic if there Were other examples of that a 'common' useage of a part of a day being equal to a day?

Maybe it's like the 'discussion' concerning the creation of the world as is found in Genesis. as to whether or not a 'day' was really a 'day' or an eon --a much longer period of time. The verse that says that one day is as a thousand and a thousand as one day. So that a 'day' of creation Could have been a thousand years. Because That would accommodate those who want a theistic evolution.

There Are events in Scripture that are a one-time occurrance. So there would not be any commonalities involved.

But, seems that this particular subject / question only comes up to try to disprove the three days and three nights. For some reason it becomes Very important to establish Exactly when and for how long.

 

[rstrats]

Sue D.,
re: "Okay -- there probably Aren't any other examples..."

While this particular topic is only concerned with the commonality of saying that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have been involved, I'm not aware of even one instance where that had to be the case.



re: "That was the only reason it Mattered whether part of a day or a full day took place."

This topic is not about calendar days. It's about daytimes or night times. And it's not about a part of a daytime or part of a night time; it's about no part of a daytime or no part of a night time.



re: "But, seems that this particular subject / question only comes up to try to disprove the three days and three nights."

That is not the purpose of this topic. I don't know what I've written that would cause you to make such a statement.

 

[Sue D.]

Okay == "when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have been involved" ??? so you're asking about how common it would be to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event.

Well - a 24-hr day consists of both day and night. For instance - when we talk about a baby being a day old. That baby wouldn't have to have been born at 12 midnight or 12 noon and live a 24 hr period of time to be considered 'one day old'.

So -- the day a baby is born is the 1st day of his/ her life. The next day is his/ her 2nd day of life. It doesn't matter that the baby was born at 4 am or 6 pm. That's Still the first day of the baby's life. And That's just the way it is. 4 am is early morning -- after 12 pm and after 12 am.

the same thing with a wedding or funeral or anything -- the day it's happening is 'the day'. It doesn't matter if the wedding or funeral is at 2 am or 5 pm. That is Still 'the day' that the event is taking place. And 2 am is the middle of the night but it's still part of a new day. A complicated situation came up with my mother's passing away a couple of years ago. My mother lived in another time zone. it was 11:30 pm in Her time zone and 12:30 am the next day in Our time zone. So was it January 5 or 6. Well -- we decided to identify with Her time zone of January 5. My sister and brother-in-law live in that same time zone. They had called us when she was pronounced. She was 98 yrs. old so , in her case, it was no surprise.

 

[rstrats]

Sue D.,
re: "so you're asking about how common it would be to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event."


Now I know you're just messing with me, because there is no way you could make that statement if you weren't.

 

[Sue D.]

I'm simply Trying to figure out what you're asking and trying to respond in some sort of intelligent manner.

 

[rstrats]

Sue D.,
re: I'm simply Trying to figure out what you're asking ..."

OK, let's try this a different way. Do you believe the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week - yes or no? If no, then this topic does not apply to you. If yes, do you also believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb" - yes or no? If no, then this topic does not apply to you. If yes, do you explain the lack of a third night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech, colloquial language - yes or no? If no, then this topic does not apply to you. If yes, what examples are you using to say that He was using common figure of speech/colloquial language?

 

[Sue D.]

On the 6th day of the week? well -- what is considered to be the 1st day of the week. Sunday. So - go Back 3 days to Thursday.

The Gospels read -- Matthew 28 --Now after the Sabboth, as the 1 st of the week began to dawn, ...... vs 6 "He is not here, for He is risen."

Luke 24 says the same thing -- on the 1st day of the week - very early in the morning,.


The 'heart of the earth' refers to more than just the tomb.

 

[rstrats]

Sue D.,
re: "On the 6th day of the week? well -- what is considered to be the 1st day of the week. Sunday. So - go Back 3 days to Thursday."

Since you're not a believer in a 6th day of the week crucifixion your answer is "no". Therefore this topic does not apply to you and you can stop wasting your time with your off topic comments.

 

[Sue D.]

Yes, SIR -- and Maybe you could stop wasting Your time as well. But then That doesn't sound very sociable , does it.

so I'll wait and see how Other posters respond.