future vaccine becoming the Mark of the Beast foretold of in the Book of Revelation

[Reba1]

Then explain away Romans 5:18 for starters.
If we can do nothing to earn it, and it has to be given to us, then who is unworthy to receive it, if the price for ALL sin has already been paid?

First off as @Brother-Paul made clear 1 verse does not stand alone . Our Scriptures were not written in chapter and verse. Romans 5:19 is connected to 18
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. The passage does not say all will be made righteous it say many.

 

[Samson2020]

First off as @Brother-Paul made clear 1 verse does not stand alone . Our Scriptures were not written in chapter and verse. Romans 5:19 is connected to 18
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. The passage does not say all will be made righteous it say many.

Romans 11:32 in the NLT language "For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so He could have mercy on everyone."
Your picking and choosing which verse you like best even though they both say the same.
As "many" in vs 19 is "ALL or everyone" as in 11:32 and 5:18
Point being who among men is free from personal sin with the exception of Jesus? No one, not even one human, therefore ALL were imprisoned, or condemned, or
made disobedient, whatever you wish to call it so that He could, and will, have mercy on everyone.
As this is the plan from the beginning. Titus 1:2

There is no other way to destroy the power of death than to make ALL alive, and this is what Jesus bought with His sacrifice.

 

[Samson2020]

Eph 1:10 " That in the dispensation of the fullness of TIMES he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth,
even in Him:

NLT 1:10 " And this is the plan: At the right time He will bring EVERYTHING TOGETHER under the authority of Christ- everything in heaven and on earth."

This is the reconciliation of ALL things.
Col 1:20 "and by him to reconcile ALL THINGS TO HIMSELF, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross."

If ALL things, and ALL men included, are not reconciled to Him then this verse is made to be a lie.

 

[Reba1]

Find any versions or translations of Scripture you wish . You will never convince me of universal salvation.

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

 

[Reba1]

@Samson2020 i have read the Living through twice i strongly suggest you get a Bible that is not paraphrased but translated.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Eph 1:10 " That in the dispensation of the fullness of TIMES he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth,
even in Him:

NLT 1:10 " And this is the plan: At the right time He will bring EVERYTHING TOGETHER under the authority of Christ- everything in heaven and on earth."

Ephesians 1:10-14 (NKJV)
10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him.
11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

All things in Christ, are those things with Christ in them. God's creation, but not the curse, God's children those who are born again and have Christ's Spirit in them. All things in Christ.

Verse 10 has been used as the keystone of the doctrine of ‘universalism’, that all people shall be saved in the end. It does imply that in the end everything and every being in existence will be under his authority, but it is dangerous to press a doctrine from a verse without regard for the balance of the evidence of Scripture as a whole and, in this case, without respect for the solemn presentation from one end of Scripture to the other of the alternatives of life and death dependent on the acceptance or rejection of God’s salvation.

This is the reconciliation of ALL things.
Col 1:20 "and by him to reconcile ALL THINGS TO HIMSELF, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross."

If ALL things, and ALL men included, are not reconciled to Him then this verse is made to be a lie.

Not so brother.

ALL things IN Christ, are those things with Christ in them. Creation, but not the curse, God's children those who are born again and have Christ's Spirit in them, but not the unsaved, All things in Christ.

As stated above,
Verse 10 Has been used as the keystone of the doctrine of ‘universalism’, that all people shall be saved in the end.

Verse 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance... Only the born again have obtained the promise of an inheritance.

Romans 8:16-17 (NKJV)
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

Only the born again from above receive the promise of the inheritance, as His Spirit bears witness with ours, when we repent and accept Jesus INTO our hearts.

Colossians 1:9-14 (NKJV)
9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;
11 strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy;
12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light.
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

We are redeemed through the blood of Christ, the born again, we 'qualify' to be partakers of the inheritance.

Only is we are born again from above brother.

Ephesians 1:15-23 (NKJV)
15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints,
16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers:
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,
18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power
20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church,
23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

the hope of His 'calling'
the riches of the Glory of His inheritance in the saints (not lost souls, the saints.
towards those who believe

Ephesians 1:10 has been used as the keystone of the doctrine of ‘universalism’, that all people shall be saved in the end.

But as stated above, it is dangerous to press a doctrine from a verse without regard for the balance of the evidence of Scripture as a whole and, in this case, without respect for the solemn presentation from one end of Scripture to the other of the alternatives of life and death dependent on the acceptance or rejection of God’s salvation.

 

[Samson2020]

Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 3:35 "The Father loveth the Son and hath given ALL things into his hand."
John 6:39 " And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of ALL which He hath given me (all things) I should lose nothing, but should raise it up
again at the last day."

I find it strange that you would argue against free will in the form of mans choice of life or death, then argue that not all will be made alive in Christ. But have no
reference as to why God cannot have mercy on ALL or will not show mercy to ALL when your Bible says that he concluded ALL in unbelief so that He could
have mercy on ALL.

11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

This is exactly what I have said. God is working everything according to his own will and that your choices though they may seem as though they have merit,
they really are meaningless as it is Gods will that will be fulfilled according to what he purposed in himself before the world began and that was
Titus 1:2 "In hope of eternal life, which God that cannot lie, promised before the world began." Eternal life promised by God before the fall, before the law, before
the world was made. Question is: To whom did he make this promise? And this is where we part ways. I see all the spirits of men, that came out from God who
gave them returning to him as autonomous sons to the glory of the Father, eventually. You see only a few who made the right choice as you did.
But if choice was the ultimate determining factor then a WORK of choice is necessary for initial salvation. But we both know it is a gift and cannot be
earned by I accepted as that puts you in the drivers seat and not the Father, and thus becomes a work whereby you boast that you accepted.
And there is no boasting by any man when it comes to salvation as that comes from God freely and there is nothing you can add to it except to your
own detriment.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Eternal life

1 John 2:24-25 (NKJV)
Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
And this is the promise that He has promised us--eternal life.

The Spirit of Christ cannot abide in us is we are in sin, Holy and sin are opposites, only in those who repent and are born again.

You are skating around single verses brother.

You believe in universalism, I don't there are to many scriptures that do not agree with it, I know what you are saying but do not agree with your reasoning. As mentioned above

Ephesians 1:10 has been used as the keystone of the doctrine of ‘universalism’, that all people shall be saved in the end.

If anyone wants to know more about the doctrine they should read the discussions in this post, but for a quick answer to the subject...

I would suggest Googling --- the doctrine of ‘universalism’

 

[Sue D.]

I am not good with words but i will try ... We know Jesus is an equal part of the God Head we agree on that point . He says He will loose nothing so He means He will loose nothing . We know He is speaking of us , His followers, Christians how ever we wish to phrase it.. because He then says He will raise us up. To me it is as simple as when Mom said "Because I said so " to me this quote of Jesus is clear. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: IF God dont draw ya ,you are condemned . According to scripture we are dead in sin .. we do not make oursleves alive we cant He does...
Like i said i do not write well ..

You seem to be understanding correctly. The Holy Spirit Does need to draw us -- it's the convicting power of the Holy Spirit --part of what He does --- we Then respond to that 'drawing' / convicting. A person either accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior or they Don't. Those who of the 'elect' of God are the one's who Will be drawn to Him. We do Not know who those people are -- we discover that 'we' personally have been if we Do accept Him as a result of our being convicted.
But that realization on our part doesn't matter. There Are those who make a big deal of Being of the 'elect'. To me, it is something I don't think about. I Am a born again believer, have been since being a young teenager. That which I DO know is that the Holy Spirit's indwelling makes itself known by convicting me when I've been disobedient And by bringing to memory passages of Scripture needed when answering questions here on Forum. or when sharing something on FB. And occasionally I feel led to share a verse or two with a friend of mine on email.

And, yes, Everyone is born spiritually dead in sin. That does not mean we're all destined to do great bodily harm or commit some horrible crime. It Does mean that we All are born with the propensity For sinning. We all have a tendency Towards sinning in some way. It Might be something in our thought life that only God knows about. That which we allow ourselves to think about. Not just a fleeting thought -- but something we dwell on that we should not be. We talk to God about that -- honestly -- and the Holy Spirit Does work on that with us. And there Are times when another born again believer Can be approached to help us. In the form of a Biblical counselor. I've done that myself a number of years ago.

And I'll repeat myself -- Only God knows who will or won't come to Him. He alone has omniscience. All knowledge. We do not need or Want that knowledge.

Hope 'this' has helped.

 

[Reba1]

@Sue D. When it comes to man choosing his salvation we are as the east is from the west. A lump of clay on the potters wheel does not form a vessel .The rest of your post we are in agreement . Out side of few rebellious teenage years i have served the Lord. Blessed to grow up a preacher's kid.

 

[Sue D.]

Reba 1 -- I've never intended to said that we choose our salvation. I Have said that the Holy Spirit convicts of our need For salvation. And a person responds To that convicting by either accepting or rejecting God's gift of salvation.

 

[Reba1]

Our salvation is Not based on anything we can ever do to work our way To heaven. We Do need to make a personal decision To accept Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior.
Reba1 -- salvation is the most important decision a person will ever make. Scripture is very clear about it.
Spiritually we Do have a choice.

And a person responds To that convicting by either accepting or rejecting God's gift of salvation.

The above are a some quotes of yours they are all in this thread so the context can be looked up.. each of them show mankind has the last word in his own Salvation. 35-40 years ago i thought so too . Here are a few of the reasons i no longer accept man being the author and finisher of his own Salvation. Reference numbers given for looking up context.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Eph_4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
1Th_5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Pe_1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Tit_3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Joh 11:40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
Joh 11:41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
Joh 11:42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 11:43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
Joh 11:44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

What of Lazarus' 'free will'


Having been reading posting on this topic for over 25 years i pretty much know what the reply will be . I see the idea of free will salvation to be putting man on a horizontal plain causing the clay to accept or reject the Potters wheel .

How can I say thanks
For the things You have done for me?
Things so undeserved
Yet You gave to prove Your love for me;
The voices of a million angels
Could not express my gratitude
All that I am and ever hope to be
I owe it all to Thee


To God be the glory
To God be the glory
To God be the glory
For the things He has done


With His blood He has saved me
With His power He has raised me;
To God be the glory
For the things He has done


Just let me live my life
Let it pleasing, Lord to Thee
And if I gain any praise
Let it go to Calvary

Above are my thoughts as to why i believe God to be the author and finisher of our faith our Salvation our Resurrection

 

[Brother-Paul]

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Regarding this verse I add comments from the Tyndale Commentary, it makes much clearer what was said in my earlier post.

Ephesians 2:1-10 (NKJV)
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Now the statement made parenthetically in verse 5 is repeated, expanded and expounded. Why can the life of heaven be possessed here and now? How is there such an exhibition of the love of God from which the whole creation of God can learn and wonder? Because by grace you have been saved. This salvation is God’s work entirely, the bestowal of his infinite love. The human part in receiving it can be described simply by the words through faith (Romans 3:22, Romans 3:25; Galations 2:16, 1 Peter 1:5). And this faith is defined best as a turning to God with a sense of need and weakness and emptiness and a willingness to receive what he offers, to receive the Lord himself (John 1:12).

Anxious to emphasize with crystal clarity the nature of this faith and the nature of grace, Paul, by his qualifying phrases in this verse and the next, excludes the possibility of anyone obtaining this salvation by any merit or self-effort.

Firstly he adds to his statement of salvation by grace through faith the words and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God. Sometimes this has been taken to refer to faith itself being only possible by God’s gift. If we take it this way, we would need to regard the second part of verse 8 as a parenthesis, since verse 9 must refer to the salvation and not to faith. It seems better, however, especially in the light of the parallelism between verse 8 and verse 9 (not your own doing ... ‘not because of works’) to take all the qualifying clauses as simply emphasizing salvation by grace. What the apostle wants to say is that the whole initiative and every aspect of the making available of this salvation is God’s. ‘God’s is the gift’ is the rendering that shows best the emphasis of the word order in the Greek. ‘Let a man be abandoned by God, and he is absolutely hopeless. It is the voice of God that arouses, that awakens, that causes a man to think and enquire; it is the power of God that gives strength to act; it is the same power which makes provision for the need of the new life.

Tyndale Commentaries - Ephesians.

We must have faith in God, faith in Jesus to receive the Free Gift from God. Only though repentance and faith can we receive the Gift. Without the Free Gift of Salvation we are spiritually dead.

v1. He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins.

Note Paul is clear it is not our doing, but he is also clear salvation is a gift from God. Which we only receive when we are born again.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Romans 12:1-8 (NKJV)
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you [saved souls the church], not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.
4 For as we [the church] have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function,
5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.
6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith;
7 or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching;
8 he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

V5. One body in Christ.
Compare with:
1 Corinthians 12:27-28 (NKJV)
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.
28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

In 1 Corinthians and Romans the human body is used as an illustration of the corporate life of Christians, but in Colossians and Ephesians the idea is carried farther. In these later documents emphasis is laid on the relation which the church, as the body, bears to Christ as the head. In them there is no possibility of an ordinary member of the church being compared to the head, or to part of the head (as is done in 1 Cor. 12:16-17, 21); in them, too, the body ceases to be used as a mere simile and becomes rather the most effective term which the apostle can find to express the vital bond which unites the life of believers with the risen life of Christ
Tyndale Commentaries - Romans.

You are taking verse 3 to fit what you are thinking, but in context of the passage it is referring to born again believers, who are the body of Christ, the Church, the Bride of Christ of which our Lord is Head of. It is not considering the lost souls here.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Eph_4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Lets look at what you emphasise here Reba

Ephesians 4:1-8 (NKJV)
1 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called,
2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love,
3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.
8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."

You are taking v7 out of context.

In this section we have diversity by unity, the unity of those in Christ, one Lord, one Faith, one baptism.

v7 But to each Note: of us, the Body of Christ, born again believers, was given grace according to the measure of 'Christ's Gift'

The great heritage of the faith all Christians share, and having this in common they are responsible to guard the unity of the Spirit. But they may not expect their personalities, their gifts and their tasks to be all alike. In his wisdom, and to make each dependent on others, God has ordained not uniformity, but an endless variety of gifts for members of the body. As Calvin puts it, ‘no member of the body of Christ is endowed with such perfection as to be able, without the assistance of others, to supply his own necessities.’ To each of us is given different gifts for the benefit of all. Paul uses the word grace here in the sense in which we have found it used in 3:2, 7-8: the privilege of a special calling in the service of God.
Tyndale Commentaries - Ephesians.

 

[Brother-Paul]

The above are a some quotes of yours they are all in this thread so the context can be looked up.. each of them show mankind has the last word in his own Salvation. 35-40 years ago i thought so too . Here are a few of the reasons i no longer accept man being the author and finisher of his own Salvation. Reference numbers given for looking up context.

Following on looking at the context of the passage you quote for us.

1Th_5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 (NKJV)
1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.

I am using William Tyndale's Commentary here as we have already had long discussions on this subject.

The reason for our ‘hope of salvation’ is that God has appointed (etheto) it. The verb is ‘somewhat vague’ (Milligan), being not nearly as precise, for example, as ‘predestined’ (Romans 8:29-30); but it clearly rests our salvation on the divine initiative. It is due to God that believers are brought into salvation.

God did not appoint us to wrath (again some translations come short of the meaning, as JB, ‘the Retribution’; NEB ‘the terrors of judgement’; but Paul sees God as personally active in opposing evil; see on (1:10). Salvation is salvation from as well as salvation unto. As Heinrich Vogel puts it, ‘whoever thinks he can smile at God’s wrath will never praise him eternally for his grace’. One of the things that gave salvation so full a meaning for New Testament Christians was that they were sure of the wrath of God and had a deep gratitude to Christ for saving them from it. In modern times some take Christianity lightly because they have emptied the wrath of its content. To banish the wrath of God from the scene is to rob life of a good deal of its serious purpose.

The expression to receive salvation (eis peripoiēsin sotērias) may mean ‘for the acquiring of salvation’ (JB ‘to win salvation’), or, taking the former word passively, ‘for the adoption of salvation’ (Lightfoot). Passages may be found to support either (the active sense: 2 Thess 2:14; Heb 10:39; the passive: Eph 1:14; 1 Pet 2:9). Paul is here speaking of salvation in its eschatological aspect and the point is that that is yet to be ‘acquired’ (Rom 13:11). This does not mean that it is obtained by human effort, and Paul immediately goes on to say that it is obtained through our Lord Jesus Christ. Whatever activity be ascribed to the believer, salvation is God’s gift through Christ (for the divine and the human in salvation Eph 2:8-10; Phil 2:12-13).
Tyndale Commentaries - 1 and 2 Thessalonians.

We must read scripture in context, single verses can often give a wrong idea of what was actually meant in the passage.

 

[Brother-Paul]

The above are a some quotes of yours they are all in this thread so the context can be looked up.. each of them show mankind has the last word in his own Salvation. 35-40 years ago i thought so too . Here are a few of the reasons i no longer accept man being the author and finisher of his own Salvation. Reference numbers given for looking up context.

Hi Reba

I have looked at the context of the first 3 verses you quoted from, to make clear the true context in each I have including more verses from the passages, and adding the relevant information and highlights. Please take your time going through them

Salvation guaranteed for all is not scriptural, we agree man cannot work for it or earn it, it is a gift from God, but spiritually we must accept the gift or we remain in sin and spiritually dead.

By looking at more verses in each passage quoted, the context becomes clear, some passages are directed at the church, the body of Jesus Christ, not to sinners and the saved, it is important to distinguish this.

I can carry on and look at every verse you quoted and reply to each in context but having answered your first 3 quotes hopefully that will be sufficient.

Bless you

 

[Curtis]

Joh 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No one can believe in something they have no knowledge of. You can not believe in what you do not know.

What did God do to give proof of his existence?

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

God gave because of his grace the knowledge to ALL men by shining his light into their hearts.

2Co 4:6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Every single person born or will be born on this earth will have this light of God within himself!
Now it is up to the person who has it to decide to choose either life or death of their own free will choice.
We can now understand the scripture that says....

Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Jesus confirms the light that God has shinned.....

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Without the light of God, no one would have the choice to choose whom he will serve!

 

[Reba1]

Salvation guaranteed for all is not scriptural, we agree man cannot work for it or earn it, it is a gift from God, but spiritually we must accept the gift or we remain in sin and spiritually dead.

I have never suggested universal salvation it is disingenuous for you to post in a way suggesting such .

You have every right to understand the Scriptures as you do .. I have the same right ,we will disagree. I read your posting of commentary and your high lighting to be as self serving to your understanding as i do mine.

You put your thoughts together very well Makes me so wish i could .. Thank you for your replies.. After giving them a quick read i will be reading more deeply in a bit. I will tell you now your thoughts are nothing new to me. They are what i thought to be right on years back .

 

[Brother-Paul]

Dear Reba,

I am pleased you do not agree in universal salvation, that was on my mind from past discussions, but the reason for the post puts that aside, I apologise if in any way I caused you to thing such.

The reasons for the posts were because you invited a reply to context of the verses you quoted. By including more of the scripture relating to your text it helps us see more clearly what the writer was saying. What he was emphasising.

Please do read them again, take your time, pray first if course, as we must do, but look for the message in each and the context.

Again I apologise if I came over in a way thinking your thoughts were on the lines of universalism, my reason for posting is set to reply to your verses in the right context they were made

Bless you