Hello thisscrosshurts.
Do appreciate replies from you.
You may agree with me thisscrosshurts but I do need
some scripture to support your idea that "Jesus is the
day".
Thanks.
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Futurism and preterism
- Thread starter canada
- Start date
Hello thisscrosshurts.
Do appreciate replies from you.
You may agree with me thisscrosshurts but I do need
some scripture to support your idea that "Jesus is the
day".
Thanks.
Eric E Stahl
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Jari,
Habakkuk 3:11–13 KJV
11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.
13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.
Habakkuk foresaw the sun and moon stand still over Israel in such a way that they “went,” meaning that these two heavenly bodies stayed over Israel and went dark or disappeared from view before the Lord came to Armageddon with His anointed.
Revelation 16:8–11 KJV
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
If the sun is seven times stronger and the moon’s reflection is as hot
as our sun now, how will anyone survive?
Please look at verse ten. God is going to send darkness on the seat of the Antichrist, which is in Israel, according to Daniel 11:45, and on the home kingdom of the Antichrist. Why would darkness be a bad judgment on the kingdom of Antichrist when the sun is seven times stronger?
What is about to be revealed will be difficult to accept as true, but it is important to remember that if God said it, we must believe it. You have read many Bible passages that indicate that America will be the home of the Antichrist. Years ago, people could not understand many Bible passages until Zephaniah 1:14–2:3 was fulfilled, when the Jewish people came back into their land. Now that we know the day of the Lord is very, very, near, we also know that the American Jews are in the daughter of Babylon, according to Zechariah 2:6–7.
We believe America is the world superpower that will be controlled by the Antichrist, according to Daniel 11:39. We know America is the most Christian country now, but that also means that it will be the most deceived by the Antichrist after the rapture of the Christians according
THE JUDGMENT OF EARTH 165
to 2 Thessalonians 2. Therefore, if America is the last days’ Babylon and the future home of the Antichrist, America should be judged with darkness, according to Revelation 16:10. In studying Revelation 16:10, we must also search the Scriptures written by the Old Testament prophets for conditions of unusual sunshine or darkness before Armageddon.
Isaiah 60:18–22 KJV (((kingdom age)))
18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.
19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.
22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.
178 ﰁ AMERICA’S LAST WARNING
Please think about the sun and moon mentioned in verses nineteen and twenty. When people look into the heavens from Israel, there is still no light from the sun and moon even though they are in their heavenly positions. The permanent solar eclipse will start near the end of the tribulation period and last through the kingdom age for one thousand years. America will become an ice-covered land with no people.
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Eric E Stahl
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Jesus will be the day light over Israel during the kingdom age.
19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
Eric E Stahl
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Jesus will lead his heavenly army to Armageddon where we will kill the army with swords given to us in heaven for that purpose Psalm 149:4-9.
The antichrist and the false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire Revelation 19:20
Jesus will then judge all the survivors of the tribulation Matthew 25:31-46.
The saints who died in the last half of the tribulation will be resurrected at that time Revelation 20:4.
The day of the Lord will start soon after Israel the nation not desired is gathered Zephaniah 1:14-2:3 During the day of the Lord there will be great judgment on the Jews till they turn back to Jesus.
The church is caught up in the air to Jesus before the antichrist is given power. After he is given power he will sign a 7 year covenant to divide Israel and then the day of the Lord, tribulation period, and time of Jacob's trouble begin.
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Hello Canada, wow you nailed it with the post at the very beggining. This pre and post trib stuff is man made. Theres proof everywhere and the Catholics are not ashambed to admit it either as one of their claims that, that is one of the reason the Catholics or should I say the Pope still have rights to change any doctrine in the Bible.
Many were deceived and obvious if they believe in this rapture stuff still are deceibed. See whats scary is that the greatest hope that you can find in the NT with all the discippes and today with many, is the hope of Jesus second Advent or coming TO TAKE US BACK. How can many believe we will be in heaven then uwhen Jesus comes back what happens. We come back with Him to go back up? Lord have mercy. How this deceiver deceives so many to have them make up a new doctrine is scary.
Many were deceived and obvious if they believe in this rapture stuff still are deceibed. See whats scary is that the greatest hope that you can find in the NT with all the discippes and today with many, is the hope of Jesus second Advent or coming TO TAKE US BACK. How can many believe we will be in heaven then uwhen Jesus comes back what happens. We come back with Him to go back up? Lord have mercy. How this deceiver deceives so many to have them make up a new doctrine is scary.
If the sun no longer rises and sets, then there
is no longer a day is there Eric.
Still waiting for scripture relating to Jesus as the day?
Thiscrosshurts
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Isaiah 60:19 The sun will no more be your light by day, nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you, for the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your God will be your glory.
Isaiah 60:20 Your sun will never set again, and your moon will wane no more; the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your days of sorrow will end.
Revelation 22:5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.
The above verses lend the idea the Lord will end our notion of day and night which are relative to the planets and sun.
The Lamb and the Glory of God have replaced our time system completely.
In Christ we enter into the 7th day rest,the last day of creation,a day that never ends.
2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Jesus said "I am the Resurrection".Since he did resurrect Lazarus that very day then he did it on the last day,the day of the way to resurrection in the day of light and life.
John 6:40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
1 Thessalonians 5:4 But you, brothers, aren't in darkness, that the day should overtake you like a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
We are not in darkness because we walk in the day or the light whichever you prefer.
There is plenty more to consider but if you study all scripture about "the day",a day,days,the last day and "on the last day" you get much more.
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In the passage you quoted from Peter's second letter,
it does not say "and the day star arise in your hearts".
It says "and the morning star rises in your hearts".
There is no day star thisscrosshurts, the language
Peter uses is poetic, not a discourse on astrophysics.
2 Peter 1:19 (NKJV)
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you
do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day
dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
Then you stated;
"In Christ we enter into the 7th day rest,the last day of creation,
a day that never ends."
Read your statement again and you will notice
the contradiction. A day that never ends? There
is no such thing as a finite time period that is
infinite. The reference for this concept is no
doubt found in Hebrews 4.
Hebrews 4
4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way:
“And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;
5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”
This passage is not so much placing emphasis on the
seventh day rest but on the rest from works. Justification
by faith in the Lord's work which provides our rest from
self justification.
The next verse you quoted is a stretch at best of the intended
meaning of the verse.
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise
again in the resurrection at the last day.
Jesus said "I am the Resurrection".Since he did resurrect Lazarus that
very day then he did it on the last day, the day of the way to resurrection
in the day of light and life.
A temporary resurrection of Lazarus does not qualify as
the resurrection on the specific day of the Lord. Why?
Because the resurrection was not mortal to immortal
but only mortal to mortal. Still no firm evidence from
the scripture that the Lord is a day or the day.
We are not in darkness because we walk in the day or
the light whichever you prefer.
I prefer that we walk in the light, not a physical light.
A divine light that is Jesus Christ where no shadows
exist. A light that fills all in all, forever.
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w
unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Hello David,
Regarding partial preterism and some of their views, I recommend anything by Kenneth Gentry. There may be some free online reading.
I am not a partial preterist, but I find them biblically competent, and agree with “some” of their understandings. Particularly that the “great tribulation” was regarding the Jews and the total destruction of the Jewish temple in 70AD leaving it completely desolate as prophesized by Jesus 40 years earlier.
After reading some of the historian Josephus’ comments about that event, it truly was a ‘”great tribulation” for the Jewish people, as what occurred there was unbelievably gruesome.
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unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Hello David,Regarding partial preterism and some of their views, I recommend anything by Kenneth Gentry. There may be some free online reading.
I am not a partial preterist, but I find them biblically competent, and agree with “some” of their understandings. Particularly that the “great tribulation” was regarding the Jews and the total destruction of the Jewish temple in 70AD leaving it completely desolate as prophesized by Jesus 40 years earlier.
After reading some of the historian Josephus’ comments about that event, it truly was a ‘”great tribulation” for the Jewish people, as what occurred there was unbelievably gruesome.
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026"/> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1"/> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
Eric E Stahl
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bgsda,
The saints are in heaven praising God and resting on beds but will be given two eded swords to go to Armageddon with Jesus because it will be the honor of the saints to kill the heathen for Jesus see Psalm 149:4-9.
Psalms 149:4–9 KJV
4 For the Lord taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek
with salvation.
5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.
ARMAGEDDON 189
6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword
in their hand;
7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;
8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the Lord.
After reading this last Scripture passage, it appears that the saints in God’s army will be the ones to execute judgment on the Antichrist’s army at Armageddon.
Habakkuk 3:11–13 KJV
11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.
13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.
Habakkuk foresaw the sun and moon stand still over Israel in such a way that they “went,” meaning that these two heavenly bodies stayed over Israel and went dark or disappeared from view before the Lord came to Armageddon with His anointed.
this seems a lot about speculation than scriptual evidence to me.... theory that is backed up by more theory. there should be correct interpreation to support theory but the author of the book your quoting seems to take heavenly and spiritual promises as prophecy of worlds fate - this seems an error to me........
Eric E Stahl
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In Revelation 22:12 Jesus said "my reward is with me"when he comes to judge men according to their works.
The dead bodies of the church age believers will be awakened and changed at the catching up before the tribulation
If you go back to my post and read the bible passages and think about them you may understand the prophecies. I know it is not what most of us have been taught but
Daniel 12:10 said at the end the wise shall understand prophecy that had been sealed.
Eric E Stahl
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Please give me you understanding of these bible passages.
Thiscrosshurts
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I believe it is a discourse on many things including some astrophysiscs.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
We go from a solarcentric view to a Jesuscentric view in which he is the light of day and the way and the resurrection and the day that is not subserviant to time.If you count days by a solar cycle you will not know at what time he comes to you.
As for Lucifer,the morning star or day star(that is a legitamate translation),I have reason to believe that it refers to both the first and second Adam.
I suppose if you limit God to this 3 dimensional reality then you would be right.
However since the sun and planets were not created until the 3rd day it's doubtfull that scripture limits a day to geocentric or solarcentric perspective."Let there be light" is not likley refering to sunlight.
I have much more to show you but I am sure it would be pointless.
Thanks for at least hearing alternate perspectives.
Give us this Day our daily bread.
Give us Jesus the bread of life.
Reveal to us our truth nature in Christ.
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Habakkuk 3:11–13 KJV sounds like end time prophecy but isaiah 60 seems to be talking of something else.
Isaiah 60:18–22 KJV (((kingdom age)))
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
this sounds like Heaven as described in Rev 22:
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
There will be no night and God is the light Him self.
Verses from isa 60:18-22 seems to all be talking about Heaven.
Isaiah 60:18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
And I believe it's talking about God's rightneusness in His people the christians being His people (nation):
Isa 60
21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.
22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.
The jews have failed in God's rightneusness many times but in heaven people will all be righteus, jew and gentile, God's chosen people.
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Eric E Stahl
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Jari,
In Revelation 16:10-11 darkness on kingdom of antichrist and his seat in the 5th Vial judgment before Armageddon.
In Revelation 16:16 World's armies gathered to Armageddon in the sixth Vial judgment.
Habakkuk 3:11-13 described this darkness starting before Armageddon.
Isaiah 60:1-2 Jesus comes to Israel who are under the darkness of the sun and moon over them in a permanent solar eclipse.
Isaiah 60:3-22 describes Israel in the kingdom age still under the sun and moon that don't give them light.see Isaiah 60:19-20.
Hello canada.
The following verses in Luke chapter 21, seem to justify
the preterist eschatology. In particular, line 22,
'the days of vengeance, that all...may be fulfilled'.
Luke 21 (NKJV)
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies,
know that its desolation is near.
21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains,
let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those
who are in the country enter her.
22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are
written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing
babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and
wrath upon this people.
24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive
into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times
of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
I have always viewed verses 20-24 exactly the same
as the preterist does. It does appear that these verses
answer the original question. But does this answer
the original question that the disciples asked canada?
Luke 21
6 “These things which you see—the days will come in which
not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown
down.”
7 So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be?
There is a problem though, if we now examine the same
question the disciples asked in Matthew 24. We find that
in Matthew the question asked contained three distinct
components. It is a more complex question than the
question in Luke's gospel.
Matthew 24
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately,
saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming,
and of the end of the age?”
You will have noticed that the question has three parts.
1) When will the temple be torn apart.
2) The signs that will accompany the return of Christ.
3) The signs of the end of the age.
This question and its three components is vital to
understand the discourse of Jesus in both Matthew 24
and Luke 21. Otherwise the reading of either chapter
will compress quite separate topics in the discourse
that Jesus gave.
If one concentrates on the question in Matthew 24:3
I believe the chapter is very simple to understand.
All things indeed are fulfilled, but not in the way
preterism or many futurists expect it will.
Jesus simply tells the disciples about the destruction
of the temple, end of the old covenant. Judgement
upon Israel, Luke 20-24.
Jesus also answers the other part of the question
about end times and His return.
Distinct answers to a question with distinct parts.
What is your opinion canada?
The following verses in Luke chapter 21, seem to justify
the preterist eschatology. In particular, line 22,
'the days of vengeance, that all...may be fulfilled'.
Luke 21 (NKJV)
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies,
know that its desolation is near.
21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains,
let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those
who are in the country enter her.
22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are
written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing
babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and
wrath upon this people.
24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive
into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times
of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
I have always viewed verses 20-24 exactly the same
as the preterist does. It does appear that these verses
answer the original question. But does this answer
the original question that the disciples asked canada?
Luke 21
6 “These things which you see—the days will come in which
not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown
down.”
7 So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be?
There is a problem though, if we now examine the same
question the disciples asked in Matthew 24. We find that
in Matthew the question asked contained three distinct
components. It is a more complex question than the
question in Luke's gospel.
Matthew 24
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately,
saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming,
and of the end of the age?”
You will have noticed that the question has three parts.
1) When will the temple be torn apart.
2) The signs that will accompany the return of Christ.
3) The signs of the end of the age.
This question and its three components is vital to
understand the discourse of Jesus in both Matthew 24
and Luke 21. Otherwise the reading of either chapter
will compress quite separate topics in the discourse
that Jesus gave.
If one concentrates on the question in Matthew 24:3
I believe the chapter is very simple to understand.
All things indeed are fulfilled, but not in the way
preterism or many futurists expect it will.
Jesus simply tells the disciples about the destruction
of the temple, end of the old covenant. Judgement
upon Israel, Luke 20-24.
Jesus also answers the other part of the question
about end times and His return.
Distinct answers to a question with distinct parts.
What is your opinion canada?
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Hello David,
You mentioned Luke 21 and the days of vengeance. You are likely aware that David Chilton, a partial preterist wrote a book by that title, and at one time it was available free on line.
We may not agree with some partial preterist conclusions, but I have found them to be quite an intellectual group, and definitely not dummies when it comes to historical events and the Bible.
You noted Luke 21 verse 23 … But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! … …
It was Josephus that had told us that things were so bad, being surrounded by the invading armies for so long that mothers were boiling their own babies for food! After reading Josephus’ account about the Jews being surrounded, I don’t know which would have been “worse”, that event or the holocaust? Both horrible … genocide.
As an aside, my pastor son-in-law was reading some history about Jerusalem some time after its AD70 destruction, and it stated that a traveler would not have recognized that a temple had ever existed, it was so overgrown and desolate … “these things which you see –the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.”
Yes David, Matthew 24 is more complex. Did Jesus return at that time with great power as claimed by the full and partial preterists, did every eye (at that time) see him?
After my time of study and interest in eschatology, I have come to the conclusion that where learned theologians cannot agree on certain subjects … who am I to offer an opinion.
One thing I have learned (from participating on discussion boards) is that for the following subjects, I believe it is near fruitless to arrive anywhere near an agreement. It is my experience to avoid discussions about:
The “great tribulation” and its timing in regard to other events.
The “rapture” and its timing, and the controversial views about the millennium.
My personal subjects of interest have involved the following:
The two witnesses of Rev 11 … and the two unusual witnesses found in the Hebrew “Shema” … Deut 6:4
David the musician and composer being “the key” to some points of prophecy. Rev 3:7
David’s “new song” in his Psalm 144.
The unusual “new song” of the 144 thousands, that only they understand.
The “song” of the victors (of understanding) over the image, mark and number of the beast being that of Moses and the Lamb. Rev 15:3
There are some unusual things about Moses’ songs in the Hebrew OT
I followed the EEC/EU events of the “Revived Roman Empire” noted in Daniel, and it did become ten, and the “little horn” diverse from the others, did rise up among them as noted by Daniel, and not in addition to them as some prophecy pundits predict. And this little horn definitely was very “diverse” from the other ten.
Sir Isaac Newton told us not to become prophets, but to recognize the event when it comes to pass … I believe those two events did come to pass, but our “watchmen on the wall” were looking in the wrong direction.
As preterists and futurists, they look to the past and to the future, but did not observe the “present” happening of that event.
Another subject of interest for me is John 21 regarding the 153 fish and why it is “peter” (the one Jesus called “Satan”) that is associated with the counting of the 153.
It was the distinguished professor JA Emerton that stated that this number (153) may be solved by gematria … similar to the numbering of the 666 beast of Revelation.
Well David, I haven’t been much help regarding your question about “when”.
PS
David, in an earlier conversation, you stated something to the effect that a pope as the religious False Prophet being a bizarre proposition!
I know that prophecy is not your strong suit but it does hold an interest for you. Please go on the internet and key in … "a pope as false prophet”.
Yes, there will be some nut cases on those (15) pages, but it has not been an uncommon claim among some Protestant students of prophecy.
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unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Hello David,You mentioned Luke 21 and the days of vengeance. You are likely aware that David Chilton, a partial preterist wrote a book by that title, and at one time it was available free on line.
We may not agree with some partial preterist conclusions, but I have found them to be quite an intellectual group, and definitely not dummies when it comes to historical events and the Bible.
You noted Luke 21 verse 23 … But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! … …
It was Josephus that had told us that things were so bad, being surrounded by the invading armies for so long that mothers were boiling their own babies for food! After reading Josephus’ account about the Jews being surrounded, I don’t know which would have been “worse”, that event or the holocaust? Both horrible … genocide.
As an aside, my pastor son-in-law was reading some history about Jerusalem some time after its AD70 destruction, and it stated that a traveler would not have recognized that a temple had ever existed, it was so overgrown and desolate … “these things which you see –the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.”
Yes David, Matthew 24 is more complex. Did Jesus return at that time with great power as claimed by the full and partial preterists, did every eye (at that time) see him?
After my time of study and interest in eschatology, I have come to the conclusion that where learned theologians cannot agree on certain subjects … who am I to offer an opinion.
One thing I have learned (from participating on discussion boards) is that for the following subjects, I believe it is near fruitless to arrive anywhere near an agreement. It is my experience to avoid discussions about:
The “great tribulation” and its timing in regard to other events.
The “rapture” and its timing, and the controversial views about the millennium.
My personal subjects of interest have involved the following:
The two witnesses of Rev 11 … and the two unusual witnesses found in the Hebrew “Shema” … Deut 6:4
David the musician and composer being “the key” to some points of prophecy. Rev 3:7
David’s “new song” in his Psalm 144.
The unusual “new song” of the 144 thousands, that only they understand.
The “song” of the victors (of understanding) over the image, mark and number of the beast being that of Moses and the Lamb. Rev 15:3
There are some unusual things about Moses’ songs in the Hebrew OT
I followed the EEC/EU events of the “Revived Roman Empire” noted in Daniel, and it did become ten, and the “little horn” diverse from the others, did rise up among them as noted by Daniel, and not in addition to them as some prophecy pundits predict. And this little horn definitely was very “diverse” from the other ten.
Sir Isaac Newton told us not to become prophets, but to recognize the event when it comes to pass … I believe those two events did come to pass, but our “watchmen on the wall” were looking in the wrong direction.
As preterists and futurists, they look to the past and to the future, but did not observe the “present” happening of that event.
Another subject of interest for me is John 21 regarding the 153 fish and why it is “peter” (the one Jesus called “Satan”) that is associated with the counting of the 153.
It was the distinguished professor JA Emerton that stated that this number (153) may be solved by gematria … similar to the numbering of the 666 beast of Revelation.
Well David, I haven’t been much help regarding your question about “when”.
PS
David, in an earlier conversation, you stated something to the effect that a pope as the religious False Prophet being a bizarre proposition!
I know that prophecy is not your strong suit but it does hold an interest for you. Please go on the internet and key in … "a pope as false prophet”.
Yes, there will be some nut cases on those (15) pages, but it has not been an uncommon claim among some Protestant students of prophecy.
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that would be the prophetical interpreation of the author of the book , yes. But i was offering spiritual interpreation..
I still don't see how this prophetical interpreation could be proven to be true?
God bless
