Gay Marriage

[stephen]

Marriage......is a biblical word, way back when God said that "It is not good for Man to be alone".....Relating to Adam. Then God created the woman.....for the man.

These folks cannot be married....whatever........for such marriage cannot be consumated in the biblical sense....God Almighty given.

The Lord God Almighty Reigns.....Still....whatever fallen man......may do

 

[Christ4Ever]

Some powerful postings. Solid scripture that reflects the truth of marriage, and the sin of immorality.
We know that marriage is a covenant set by God, between a man and a woman. (Now to upset the apply cart.) Yet, the church has relegated its authority of marriage to the governing bodies of the world. Yep that's right. The authority has been given over to the state or taken by the state. Which ever one you prefer, which amounts to pretty much the same thing.
Right about now some are saying "WHAT????" :crazy: NOWAY NO HOW!

Sad, but in the majority of churches you will find this to be true, at least in USA. Are we fighting the good fight in trying to maintain what we believe marriage and the concept of marriage should be defined as? Sure, but unless we change, we'll lose that. Until we the body of Christ can regain that authority that the church gave over to the state, we must eventually submit to what the state wants; and its our fault! You might not agree but...........

Try this out and let everyone know what you all's individual church shepherds say, be they minister, pastor, whatever title they may hold. Will you marry a couple (man & woman) without a marriage license?
(Might make for a good pole question )

Unless you're in ministry, you would believe it's as simple as saying sure no problem. Marriage was established by God. You'll find what we believe as lay folks is clearly common sense for the clergy as well. Not so, except with maybe few exceptions. I don't even have to hazard a guess of what would be said by the more established denominations. You'll probably find the answer will be a resounding no! Most will state, that "It's not legal" or "it won't be legal" or somehow "not binding", or "how will you report it on your taxes?" "The Government requires its coin." etc.

As if this covenant of marriage between one man, one woman and God requires a governing body's acceptance in order to have validity in the eyes of God!!!!! I'm sure there are enough learned folks here to come up with why not, such as "All authority is God given......", but you know if you open that can of worms, you'll quickly find yourself in the pit of darkness. I don't have to post where that line of reasoning will get you, at least in regards to marriage (man/man, woman/woman).

One pastor told me when I posed that question to them, that they believed that in the old testament something about a certificate (though the word itself is not in scripture) being required. I politely let him know if the license came from someone in the old testament, it probably came from the priests! or maybe a judge during the time of judges, but if someone out there knows of this please post it. It would be most beneficial in maintaining a greater context in understanding scripture in regards to marriage.

So will we continue to follow the Government in this instance? or Will the church standup and say mind your own bees wax and we'll marry them without your okay, because we have God's authority that supersedes yours?

In truth, part of me wants to say to those who want to allow for same sex marriage, to go for it and leave the church out of it. This would be fine, if not for us being called to be a light to the darkness of this world. For those who don't want prayers (@cuddlebunny282) or those who confuse "Love", with tolerance & acceptance I would say, to continue to read scripture within context of the whole on immorality, and sin. Not as man would have it be or tell you that it is, but as God says it is.

Keep in mind what our Lord said about love; John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. or John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What is the common denominator in those above verses in regards to "Love"? Self-Sacrifice, and not Self-Indulgence.

YBIC
C4E

 

[james1523]

Gay marriage is based upon this false worldly idea that "marriage is love". or that "love leads to marriage". But according to the bible, marriage is heterosexual intercourse:
1 Cor 6:16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."

Adam and Eve were not married because they loved each other , nor because they made marital vows to each other, nor because they were blessed by a pastor or priest. They were married in God's eyes because they had intercourse.

 

[harvester]

In the bible God judged Sodom and Gomorrah for wickedness... in recent times, East Asia, Tokyo, New Orleans and others

Oklahoma? These acts of God have nothing to do with just homosexuality but ALL sin.

 

[Cordycep]

Hi Cordycep. Sodom and Gomorrah did not legalize gay marriage either. We have this strange view in our societies that legalizing gay marriage is the last straw..that somehow without legalized gay marriage society is 'not too bad'..but this is not true, I think God will consider the combined balance of righteous versus unrighteous in total. There is a verse in the old testament I think about God weighing, but I cannot find it now. A country may have legalized gay marriage but have a low population of homosexuals, this one might be safer from God's judgement, than a country with lots of homosexuals and no legalized gay marriage.

The point I'm trying to make is this: when bad things happen to people, we can't assume it is direct judgment from God. We all suffer here on Earth because of sin. Hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, and all other natural disasters are a consequence of our fall, but not necessarily direct punishment for a people/society. God may, in his time, judge societies for gross disobedience to him, but that's never for us to say.

I agree when you say that people often view homosexuality as a "last straw". Any sin is a last straw if one doesn't repent and follow Christ (the ultimate consequence being hell). A Christian that struggles with homosexuality is no different than a Christian that struggles with fornication, or covetousness, or gluttony, or any other sin. But the key word here is "struggle". And that's why I find it hard to believe that any true Christian would be involved in a homosexual marriage. That is nothing less than living in deliberate, habitual disobedience to God.

I don't expect a nonbeliever to obey, or to have any desire to obey, the law's of God. While on Earth, they have the freedom to live life as they wish, as far as society allows. Because it's a social issue, Christians have the right to vote and petition against it. But if society ultimately allows for homosexual marriage, then so be it. I will say that if we Christians put more energy into living the righteous life that we preach, we couldn't look like such hypocrites when these issues arise. I see so many people getting worked up over homosexuality, when they ignore the obvious sin in their own lives. Non-Christians notice this more than we might think.

 

[james1523]

The point I'm trying to make is this: when bad things happen to people, we can't assume it is direct judgment from God. We all suffer here on Earth because of sin. Hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, and all other natural disasters are a consequence of our fall, but not necessarily direct punishment for a people/society. God may, in his time, judge societies for gross disobedience to him, but that's never for us to say.

I agree when you say that people often view homosexuality as a "last straw". Any sin is a last straw if one doesn't repent and follow Christ (the ultimate consequence being hell). A Christian that struggles with homosexuality is no different than a Christian that struggles with fornication, or covetousness, or gluttony, or any other sin. But the key word here is "struggle". And that's why I find it hard to believe that any true Christian would be involved in a homosexual marriage. That is nothing less than living in deliberate, habitual disobedience to God.

I don't expect a nonbeliever to obey, or to have any desire to obey, the law's of God. While on Earth, they have the freedom to live life as they wish, as far as society allows. Because it's a social issue, Christians have the right to vote and petition against it. But if society ultimately allows for homosexual marriage, then so be it. I will say that if we Christians put more energy into living the righteous life that we preach, we couldn't look like such hypocrites when these issues arise. I see so many people getting worked up over homosexuality, when they ignore the obvious sin in their own lives. Non-Christians notice this more than we might think.

Hi Cordycep,

Throughout your argument is an assumption that homosexuality is on the same level as any other sin.
But I will show from the bible how homosexuality is more serious than other sins.
I will show that homosexuality and gay marriage is not merely a 'social issue' , but actually brings defilement of the land.
In this matter there is no such thing as "separation of church and state". It is not true that society can choose to live however they like without consequences.
Unbelievers do not have freedom to live as they wish. They are bound to keep God's law also.
For the sake of keeping the land undefiled and saving our lands, Christians speak against homosexuality.
All sin is sin, but specific abominations like homosexuality can incur God's wrath upon the land in which He removes the inhabitants.
Despite your belief that homosexuality is "no different" to other sins - no where does the bible say the land is defiled because of gluttony, for example.

Let's see what the bible says:

Leviticus 18 describes a list of all sexual abominations and defilements. It includes not just homosexuality but also incest etc. It is talking about severe sexual sins here.

Verse 24 and 26-28 says that sexual abomination committed by any people, defiles the land and incurs God's punishment:

Lev 18:24 "“‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants."

Lev 18:26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled.


So in summary these verses show us:
Homosexuality defiles not only the people but also the land, and in this respect it is worse than other sins (such as gluttony, rudeness, back-biting, gossip etc).
Defilement of the land can bring God's punishment.
God expects not only His people to not do these things, but also the aliens (foreigners, unbelievers) who live amongst us.

 

[Chad]

Ummmm....Wow. Just wow.....I'm not even going to respond to first part, but what you just said about gay people......."Also, gays are hurting "other people" in various ways such as STD, deprivation of proper mother/father family structure if they adopt and/or raise a child. They are hurting themselves too because it is unnatural to be with some of the same sex." Seriously? My dad or mom don't have any STDs -.- Even straight people can have them. What you just said right there is stereotyping. My dad raised me and I turned out just fine. My mom came back into my life sometime before I got out of high school. I wouldn't want to change these two people, or any others, because it is their life. Just because a book says it is wrong doesn't mean it is. I'm done with this topic. Clearly you guys don't want to accept gay people for who they are. And for your information, I am not treading on dangerous ground -______- I'm harming myself or YOU by doing these things. But believe whatever you want to believe. I'm done with this.

Every sin has a consequence. From what you post, I'm not sure I even understand what your saying about your "mom and dad". Did they become gay, each and separate/divorce? Please do clarify.

Your welcomed to have all the opinions about any topic in this world, but there is just One GOD and He is Holy. GOD never intended anyone to become gay, murderers, pedophiles, drug addicts, sex addicts, etc. He wants 100% purity and went to the extent of sending Jesus on the Cross to die (and rise on the 3rd day) to pay for all sins ever committed, even the future to the last day.

Now, do you want to sit here and and air your opinions all day long as if they were factual? You will face GOD one day, it's called judgment day. So will your parents and every person that ever lived.

Facts are facts. GOD is real, He is love but He is also Holy and just. He cannot contradict Himself and His nature (holy). Sin is opposite of GOD. This includes gay lifestyles, whether or not you think its wrong or not has no merit.

A snippet from another site on this topic:

Statistics show that homosexual behavior is marked by death, disease, disappointment, promiscuity, perversity, addiction, and misery. The real threat to persons in the homosexual lifestyle does not seem to be discrimination, but physical devastation.

Please note—the purpose of our web site is to present the testimony and evidence as best we know it. The statistics below are harsh. If you have contrary evidence, we would be glad for you to provide it. Here are a few of the available statistics:

• The best available evidence indicates that those practicing homosexual behavior have a 20% to 30% shorter life expectancy than the rest of the population, not even accounting for death from AIDS.
• 25% to 33% of people in the homosexual lifestyle are alcoholics compared to 7% in the general population.
• 60% of all syphilis cases are among homo and bi-sexual men.
• Homosexual men have an HIV infection rate 60 times higher than the general public.
• Most people in the homosexual lifestyle are loving and caring. But we cannot merely sweep under the rug the statistics that indicate that homosexuals are 16 times more likely than heterosexuals to molest a child and 15 times more likely to murder.
• In addition to increased molestation, empirical research shows that children of a homosexual couple have more frequent harms such as social difficulties, emotional turmoil, gender role disruption, etc.
• For further statistics, see the educational pamphlet Medical Consequences of What Homosexuals Do. (This pamphlet, as well as others available from the Family Research Institute, are excellent to distribute at your workplace if you are forced to attend an indoctrination on homosexuality!) They are available at this website: Family Research Institute (See "Pamphets" and "Scientific Articles" in the upper left hand corner of the home page.)

According to the Journal of Interpersonal Violence, a stunning 31 percent of lesbians in relationships had experienced physical violence from a partner within the past year. According to John Klofas of the Rochester Institute of Technology, "Trends suggest that as many as half of lesbian relationships experience some form of abuse." Meanwhile, gay males, according to the journal Violence and Victims, "are more likely to be killed by their partners than [by] a stranger." The increased potential for violence has been confirmed in numerous studies (seeConservapedia and John Jay College), as well as by gay advocacy groups such as the Gay Men's Domestic Violence Project.

Child Molestation appears to be staggeringly higher among gays. See Pedophilia.

Encouraging people to enter relationships so much more dangerous for them than marriage is not responsible behavior on the part of any government. Likewise, legalizing gay marriage hurts homosexuals in general. When the government says that gay marriage is fine, it teaches (often through public elementary education, see Spain), that homosexual behavior is fine. But unfortunately, these behaviors are linked to a number of serious health problems, including drug abuse. Gay men are infected 50 times more often than straight men, and and have a much higher incidence of anal cancer (among men), breast cancer and gynocological cancers (among women), and 4 times more likely to commitsuicide.

The pathology of homosexual practice gives the reason for many of the ravages of this lifestyle. In a 1991 paper by James Holsinger Jr, a physician nominated for the post of Surgeon General, explained that the structure and function of the male and female reproductive systems are fully complementary. But the rectum is incapable of mechanical protection against severe damage. Not only is the rectum not lubricated, but the anal sphincters are designed for only the outward passage of objects.

Holsinger stated, "From the perspective of pathology and pathophysiology, the varied sexual practices of homosexual men have resulted in a diverse and expanded concept of sexually transmitted disease and associated trauma." Among items in a long list of problems listed by Holsinger are these: enteric diseases (infections from a variety of viruses and bacteria including a very high incidence of amoebiasis, giardiasis, and hepatitis, etc.), trauma (fecal incontinence, anal fissure, rectosigmoid tears, chemical sinusitis, etc.), sexually trasmitted diseases (AIDS, gonorrhea, simplex infections, genital warts, scabies, etc.).

The following link is an open admission from a homosexual male regarding the norm in this lifestyle: Self Destruction.

Also see this link concerning health of various lifestyle groups: Health.

The gay political movement largely follows the methods described in Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen's strategy manual After the Ball. This includes making themselves seem victimized in order to gain sympathy—carrying out a "conversion of the average American's emotions, mind, and will, through a planned psychological attack, in the form of propaganda fed to the nation via the media," and marginalizing people and groups who oppose homosexual behavior. But the facts are that the gay lifestyle itself creates its own victims.

Homosexuality from Several Viewpoints - Faith Facts

The Bible contains 9 specific references to homosexuality:

4 in the Old Testament (Genesis 19:1-25; Judges 19:22-30; Leviticus 18:22; and Leviticus 20:13)
5 in the New Testament (Romans 1:24-28; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; 1 Timothy 1:8-11; 2 Peter 2:6-10; and Jude 7).

The passage in Romans, in particular is so clear that it seems to have been written by St. Paul in anticipation that people might challenge the idea that homosexual behavior is wrong (in case you don't get it, let me make it perfectly clear!). In addition, there are numerous other passages that touch on this topic indirectly through comments on the biblical view of marriage and family, promiscuity, and sexual purity. Included in these references are Genesis 2:18-25; Proverbs 18:22; Mark 7:21, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-5;Romans 6:13, 13:13; 1 Corinthians 6:13, 18-19; Galatians 5:19-21;Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; Revelation 21:8, 22:15.

 

[Cordycep]

Hey James,

First, I want to make it clear that I wasn't implying nonbelievers weren't subject to God's laws. They most certainly are. What I meant was, they have the choice of whether or not to follow them. Believers and nonbelievers alike will face consequences for their sins here on Earth, but more importantly, nonbelievers will face the ultimate consequence after they die. When it comes to which sin is worse than others, I'll just leave that up to God. I will, however, concede that there are varying consequences depending on the sin. Just remember that a sinful person as well as a sinful nation (I'm talking deliberate, unrepented sin) doesn't always incur the instant wrath of God. Psalm 73:2-3 says: "But as for me, my feet had almost slipped; I had nearly lost my foothold. For I envied the arrogant when I saw the prosperity of the wicked".

I'm aware of the serious nature of homosexuality. God clearly condemns it, and Sodom and Gomorrah are two very sad examples of societies that went too far. I don't think, however, that Christians must live in fear that God will destroy America (or anywhere else) just because homosexuality has become more "acceptable" over time. I've been to many places in Europe, South America, Asia, and even some Islamic countries, and must say that not only is homosexuality fairly accepted, but it is even quite rampant in many of these places. We know that God won't destroy the entire world again (until the very end), so I guess my point is, instead of focusing on possible judgement that nonbelievers might bring , we need to focus on ourselves and our own sin. We've all "defiled the land" in our own way.

Like I've said, Christians have every right to vote and petition against gay marriage. But it must be done in a respectful and humble way. Let's not get so caught up with the world and these issues that we neglect and ignore our own weaknesses.

 

[harvester]

In the bible God judged Sodom and Gomorrah for wickedness... in recent times, East Asia, Tokyo, New Orleans and others

Since you claim all this drivel and have the arrogance to say God has destroyed these places due to homosexuality then why Innocent children die in Olkahoma and why did.he not just destrpy gay brothels, gay clubs, gay whorehousea in San Francisco? Why schools in Olkahoma? Because you do not Know God ways or his plans. Coincidence that all this happened in Olkahoma and not some big gay city? I think not.

 

[B-A-C]

Since you claim all this drivel and have the arrogance to say God has destroyed these places due to homosexuality then why Innocent children die in Olkahoma and why did.he not just destroy gay brothels, gay clubs, gay whorehousea in San Francisco? Why schools in Olkahoma? Because you do not Know God ways or his plans. Coincidence that all this happened in Olkahoma and not some big gay city? I think not.

Well, I can't speak for Oklahoma (I used to live in Tulsa about 13 years ago). I live in Seattle, which seems much more liberal about same sex than San Francisco, (we voted for it, California didn't) but I do know the Bible specifically says God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.
Gen 19:24; Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven,

Why do tragedies happen? I don't know. Is it because some place is good and another place is evil? Lot tried to find even 10 good people in Sodom and Gomorrah but he couldn't. (Gen 18:32; ) God said he would have saved the city if 10 righteous people lived there. I'm sure there are some righteous people in San Francisco and Seattle, and I'm sure there are some evil people in Oklahoma, but I don't think any of us know for sure why God allows some disasters to happen. Maybe it's to turn people back towards him? I was in Tulsa when 9-1-1 happened. I can tell you a few days later there were more signs on businesses and and windows of people houses about Jesus/God than I had ever seen anywhere else in my life. Sadly most of those signs slowly disappeared over the next few months. Maybe it's an opportunity for the rest of us to be more loving, and giving, and praying?

 

[farout]

In the guide (the Bible) God defined Marriage as between and man and a woman. It makes no difference what man may say , feel, or think about marriage, God told us and that is it. The topic of gay marriage has already been settled. Romans one gives a full explaination, those who want to go against the WORD of God are anti-Christ's.

I believe that God uses what ever it takes to get our attention and directs us to repent.

No one sin brings the wrath of God. There are many of God's people who disobey as well as those who reject Jesus christ. Only about 4% of those who say they are believers and go to church and Tithe. That is not sacrifical giving which is taught in the New testament. We disobey is so many ways. God is calling us to repent. As for same sex activities everyone knows it's not natural, but our nation mostly says it's ok. God says it is a sin ! God says greed, stealing, not honoring our parents, using His name in vain, not taking a day to Worship Him, coveting someone elses things, lieing, not loving others more than our self, all these bring the wrath of God. Married people do you treat you mate as the Bible says in Ephesians ? That too is sin.


Homosexuality is sin, it's wrong, but remember God forgives all sin the same way. All sin no matter how small still sent Jesus to the cross, to pay the cost for YOUR sin !
Don't single out one sin and say that's the reason for what has happened in OK. Blessinsg to all.


farout

 

[s.i.e.]

There is no such thing as a gay Christian. That is 100% outright contradictory to the Bible's teachings.

At risk of sounding like the proverbial "devil's advocate" here -- isn't the above statement merely op-ed? Your opinion? I'm just wondering what you can point to Biblically that would say that someone who is / calls themself "gay" is de-facto, not a Christian? I take it that you mean that as though they are not saved...not merely that they are "out of the club"...but correct me if I'm hearing you wrong?

Also, gays are hurting "other people" in various ways such as STD, deprivation of proper mother/father family structure if they adopt and/or raise a child. They are hurting themselves too because it is unnatural to be with some of the same sex.

If hurting other people or yourself was some sort of smell-test to determine whether someone were a Christian or not, then most Christians would not be Christians.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Who will rise up for Me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?
Psalm 94:16

Originally Posted by Chad
There is no such thing as a gay Christian. That is 100% outright contradictory to the Bible's teachings.

What brother @Chad has written is correct. Good post brother.

People are beginning to nit pick around the subject to make excuses
Don't dilute the Word of God

The word is clear on homosexuality
It is wrong, it is an abomination

You are not merely standing against Talk Jesus forum members
You are denying the Word of God

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
1 Corinthians 6:9

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Galatians 6:7

 

[Chad]

At risk of sounding like the proverbial "devil's advocate" here -- isn't the above statement merely op-ed? Your opinion? I'm just wondering what you can point to Biblically that would say that someone who is / calls themself "gay" is de-facto, not a Christian? I take it that you mean that as though they are not saved...not merely that they are "out of the club"...but correct me if I'm hearing you wrong?

How can light and darkness mix together?

Isaiah 5:20-21
20Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!21Woe to those who are [SUB]t[/SUB] wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!

There's the kind of "struggling" Christian who opposes the sins they struggle with and then their is the kind who is ignorant who generally fall in this category (for example)...

Joshua 24:15
15"And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, [SUB]e[/SUB] choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether [SUB]y[/SUB] be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For [SUB]z[/SUB] if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But [SUB]a[/SUB] he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, [SUB]b[/SUB] this one will be blessed in what he does.

1 John 1:6-10
6 [SUB]n[/SUB] If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we [SUB]o[/SUB] walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and [SUB]p[/SUB] the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we [SUB]q[/SUB] confess our sins, He is [SUB]r[/SUB] faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to [SUB]s[/SUB] cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we [SUB]t[/SUB] make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

And finally...

Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, [SUB]t[/SUB] not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 "And [SUB]u[/SUB] then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you;

 

[s.i.e.]

The "gay" issue is tough, and I'm just not so sure it's as black and white as many in the Church would like to make it. Am I advocating cultural relativism, moral "progressiveness", liberal tolerance? No - not in the slightest.

I just think it is the "log in the eye" syndrome that the Church has here! For example...I'm not gay, so, it's incredibly easy for me to want to call that sin out, and put scarlet letters on any or all who might be tolerant of such things. But...have you ever met a gay person who says they are a Christian...and listened to their hearts? I have, and from what I can tell, none of them would have wanted to choose to be gay. Further, those who I've met who call themselves Christians seem to have a genuinely loving heart towards Christ Jesus, God, and frankly...they seem to love their neighbor/people better than me much of the time!

Homosexuality / lesbianism is a sin. That's clear. But...doesn't 1 John 1:6-10 / Mat 7:21-23 and the rest of these wonderful verses apply just as much to me in my greed / envy / fear / lust / self loathing, etc etc etc....as it does to homosexuality?

And in those sins of mine, am I a Christian? If there is no such thing as a "gay Christian"...shouldn't there also be no such thing as an "envious Christian" or a "greedy Christian" or a "self-loathing Christian" or a "hateful Christian"?

I'm just wondering what in particular in scripture might give us reason to think that there can be no such thing as a Jesus loving Christian who is gay (or, thinks they are gay, or, struggles with same sex attraction, or whatever!)....in the same test we might give towards any other sin in the book.

In our call to "be Holy"....do we not sin along the way...and is Christ not there for us each and every time, loving us as we do? Does it make us "not Christian" for that moment when we sin, etc?

I think it's a far more complicated issue than merely "gay Christian" being a 100% oxymoron. I like to put things in neat little boxes too...but I'm just not sure that's at all helpful, and in fact, can prove to be hurtful towards all parties.

 

[james1523]

instead of focusing on possible judgement that nonbelievers might bring , we need to focus on ourselves and our own sin. We've all "defiled the land" in our own way.

Hi Cordycep, on the other hand we should not be so inward focused on our own sin that we forget that Christ calls us to be salt (preserving) and light (shining for all to see) in the world. Our sins are covered by the blood.
I think you've missed a point I was trying to make. Homosexuality is a gross sin that causes defilement of the land, according to the bible. Murder is too I believe. Unless we have murdered someone or committed a gross sexual act (incest, or homosexuality), then we have not "defiled the land". Do not try and put a homosexual living with their partner on the same level as a Christian who enjoys eating too many jam donuts.

 

[CuddleBunny282]

Every sin has a consequence. From what you post, I'm not sure I even understand what your saying about your "mom and dad". Did they become gay, each and separate/divorce? Please do clarify.

Your welcomed to have all the opinions about any topic in this world, but there is just One GOD and He is Holy. GOD never intended anyone to become gay, murderers, pedophiles, drug addicts, sex addicts, etc. He wants 100% purity and went to the extent of sending Jesus on the Cross to die (and rise on the 3rd day) to pay for all sins ever committed, even the future to the last day.

Now, do you want to sit here and and air your opinions all day long as if they were factual? You will face GOD one day, it's called judgment day. So will your parents and every person that ever lived.

Facts are facts. GOD is real, He is love but He is also Holy and just. He cannot contradict Himself and His nature (holy). Sin is opposite of GOD. This includes gay lifestyles, whether or not you think its wrong or not has no merit.

A snippet from another site on this topic:



The Bible contains 9 specific references to homosexuality:

4 in the Old Testament (Genesis 19:1-25; Judges 19:22-30; Leviticus 18:22; and Leviticus 20:13)
5 in the New Testament (Romans 1:24-28; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; 1 Timothy 1:8-11; 2 Peter 2:6-10; and Jude 7).

The passage in Romans, in particular is so clear that it seems to have been written by St. Paul in anticipation that people might challenge the idea that homosexual behavior is wrong (in case you don't get it, let me make it perfectly clear!). In addition, there are numerous other passages that touch on this topic indirectly through comments on the biblical view of marriage and family, promiscuity, and sexual purity. Included in these references are Genesis 2:18-25; Proverbs 18:22; Mark 7:21, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-5;Romans 6:13, 13:13; 1 Corinthians 6:13, 18-19; Galatians 5:19-21;Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; Revelation 21:8, 22:15.

They were gay before they even got to together, I'm sure they did at first love each other in that way, but not anymore, like they only wanted kids. And my mom had me and my brother. They both live happy lives, have no STDs. My dad raised me and my brother good.

Well, so you know, everyone has flaws, no one is perfect. I can't live up to God's expectations. God should be able to accept people for who they are. You can't force your religion on me. You have no right. Do not, I repeat, do not tell me what to believe in. Do I make myself clear?

You can try to tell me it is wrong, but I will not believe you. Most people who I know that are gay are happy with their lives. Anyways, bye, and have a good night

 

[Chad]

I'm just wondering what in particular in scripture might give us reason to think that there can be no such thing as a Jesus loving Christian who is gay (or, thinks they are gay, or, struggles with same sex attraction, or whatever!)....in the same test we might give towards any other sin in the book.

I provided ample clear Scripture on this in my previous post. You cannot love the world and GOD together.

 

[Chad]

You can try to tell me it is wrong, but I will not believe you. Most people who I know that are gay are happy with their lives. Anyways, bye, and have a good night

No one can tell you, but like the rest of the world you'll have to give your answer to GOD on judgment day. That's not optional. You came here to the site specifically a Christian forum just to defend your opinions. You obviously know deep in your heart it's wrong otherwise you would not have come here to argue with a Christian community that our belief is wrong.

 

[s.i.e.]

I provided ample clear Scripture on this in my previous post. You cannot love the world and GOD together.

Thanks Chad. I agree with your "you cannot love the world and God together" quote, as well as the implications of all the scriptures you quoted. But, this stuff doesn't answer the question of the concept that "there is no such thing as a gay Christian".....any more than it does "there is no such thing as an envious Christian", etc.

We all sin. When we do, are we not a Christian?

When Paul wrestled with his "thorn in the flesh" --- or when John the baptist doubted (Matthew 11:2-3) --- or when Peter denied Christ 3x --- or when laziness/complacency causes the 12 to fall to sleep in the Garden as Christ sweat blood --- were thy "not Christian"?


I'm just wondering if the Church is doing the scarlet-letter routine with the GLBT crowd in the way that is so convenient and reassuring to those pointing the finger. Again: log-in-the-eye syndrome. It's not my story...so, feels good to condemn it. Especially when it is a more "clear" sin than those sins we can't see, that take place in the heart.

After all: who are we to throw ANYONE out of Church, or play judge/jury with our fellow man? The Church should be more of a hospital. We are all sick. We all sin. We are all guilty and condemned to death short of Christ. I'm not sure what place the Church has in deciding who is Christian or who isn't Christian. That's more of a "who cares" in my mind. Not my business. That's Christ's business. Alone.

I think the Church is dealing in fear in this way. And that is the opposite of Love.