God’s ways are not our ways - Don’t read into the Bible your own desires and sensibilities!

[Victor Van Heerden]

SICK

Calling the Bible sick - are we?

Heb9:22
In fact, according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified with blood. For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

And that acceptance among Israelites resulted in their abandonment by God, loss of their nation. They were judged harshly for their spiritual adulteries. So yes, the Jews did accept the practice, but to their destruction. They also erected monuments to false gods in the "groves" which were apart from the official worship site.

Of course - but only because they were sacrificing to false gods. God is a jealous God and one of His Commandment says " Thou shalt have no other gods before me"! Nowhere in the Commandments does God say thou shalt not sacrifice children/humans to me. Yet it does say a lot about worship of other gods.

If sacrifices were to God (Yahweh) they were acceptable. ( see Abraham/Issac. Where God instructed Abraham to sacrifice Issac and Abraham DID NOT FLINCH AT THE IDEA - DID HE?)

 

[KingJ]

Of course - but only because they were sacrificing to false gods. God is a jealous God and one of His Commandment says " Thou shalt have no other gods before me"! Nowhere in the Commandments does God say thou shalt not sacrifice children/humans to me. Yet it does say a lot about worship of other gods.

If sacrifices were to God (Yahweh) they were acceptable. ( see Abraham/Issac. Where God instructed Abraham to sacrifice Issac and Abraham DID NOT FLINCH AT THE IDEA - DID HE?)

If it was a common practice, why test Abraham with it?

If it was what God wanted, why did He stop it?

Abraham was greatly rewarded and blessed for his faithfulness. Why does scripture not mention this of the ''others''?.

Gen 22:15-17 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, “I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me

 

[KingJ]

Nowhere in the Commandments does God say thou shalt not sacrifice children/humans to me.

Exo 20:13 You shall not murder.

Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

Pro 6:16 There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

 

[KingJ]

Calling the Bible sick - are we?

Heb9:22
In fact, according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified with blood. For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.

Fortunately for us, God had the noggin to create animals for sacrificing before the cross.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

If it was a common practice, why test Abraham with it?

If it was what God wanted, why did He stop it?

Abraham was greatly rewarded and blessed for his faithfulness. Why does scripture not mention this of the ''others''?.

Gen 22:15-17 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, “I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me

Good question and easily answered because at this time in early Hebrew history the people advanced and developed so did their religion evolve with them and they became tired of human sacrifice and this particular Abraham/Issac narrative was introduced saying that God now does not want it any more and the blood of animals will from hence forth suffice. That is why Abraham was willing and not shocked and to reinforce the new idea an angel was sent from heaven to bring forth a ram. It was a major turning point event.

Even circumcision was a replacement for child sacrifice.

Read this part from

Blood and Men

" The biblical focus of brit milah, the covenant of circumcision, is the removal of that foreskin and the subsequent releasing of blood. Since, in general, blood atones, we may assume the blood of the brit milah also atones. It is an offering. Perhaps this is the meaning of the verse in Genesis 9:5, "But for your own lifeblood will I require a reckoning." We know that blood belongs to God alone, as does the firstborn of human, beast, and fruit. The blood of the brit milah is in exchange for the child's very life. The Torah teaches that an animal cannot be sacrificed before the eighth day after its birth, so male Israelites must be circumcised precisely on the eighth day, when their blood will be reckoned as a sacrifice."

And this

Child Sacrifice, Ethical Responsibility and the Existence of the People of Israel on JSTOR

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Fortunately for us, God had the noggin to create animals for sacrificing before the cross.

pure opinion based on your modern sensibilities. You need to read up on early Hebrew history and child sacrifice by Jewish scholars.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Exo 20:13 You shall not murder.

Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

Pro 6:16 There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

Child sacrificial offerings to God (Yahweh) are religious ritual acts and are NOT regarded as murder.

Of course God commanded His people not to sacrifice to foreign gods. They are acceptable if to Him. He was happy with Jesus.

Sacrificial offerings are willing blood shedding and ritualistic and not in the same category as the shedding of innocent blood.

 

[Br. Bear]

Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
Micah 6:7

Greetings,

not so sure about this:

Even circumcision was a replacement for child sacrifice.

Read this part from

Blood and Men

" The biblical focus of brit milah, the covenant of circumcision, is the removal of that foreskin and the subsequent releasing of blood. Since, in general, blood atones, we may assume the blood of the brit milah also atones. It is an offering. Perhaps this is the meaning of the verse in Genesis 9:5, "But for your own lifeblood will I require a reckoning." We know that blood belongs to God alone, as does the firstborn of human, beast, and fruit. The blood of the brit milah is in exchange for the child's very life. The Torah teaches that an animal cannot be sacrificed before the eighth day after its birth, so male Israelites must be circumcised precisely on the eighth day, when their blood will be reckoned as a sacrifice."

many scholars does not mean something is OK, as you probably are aware. [many 'borrow off' others and not a few get caught up in scholarly efforts proving or disproving things that someone else dreamt up or stated - a bit like false prophets and their followings]

so, may i ask?
what do we do with this:

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Colossians 2:11

Galatians 5:24
Romans 2:29

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Deuteronomy 30:6

Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest My fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
Jeremiah 4:4

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
Deuteronomy 10:16-17


Bless you ....><>

Love is For Giving
God is Love​

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
Micah 6:7

Greetings,

not so sure about this:



many scholars does not mean something is OK, as you probably are aware. [many 'borrow off' others and not a few get caught up in scholarly efforts proving or disproving things that someone else dreamt up or stated - a bit like false prophets and their followings]

so, may i ask?
what do we do with this:

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Colossians 2:11

Galatians 5:24
Romans 2:29

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Deuteronomy 30:6

Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest My fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
Jeremiah 4:4

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
Deuteronomy 10:16-17


Bless you ....><>

Love is For Giving
God is Love​

The NT has completely set us free from any requirements found in the OT. If you have the Son you are free indeed and are a new creation in Christ. All and old things have passed a way and your new life is IN Christ and Him only. The blood of Christ is the complete and perfect sacrificial offerings for our sins (atonement) that God required. The OT has been superseded by the NT.

 

[Sue D.]

Good question and easily answered because at this time in early Hebrew history the people advanced and developed so did their religion evolve with them and they became tired of human sacrifice and this particular Abraham/Issac narrative was introduced saying that God now does not want it any more and the blood of animals will from hence forth suffice. That is why Abraham was willing and not shocked and to reinforce the new idea an angel was sent from heaven to bring forth a ram. It was a major turning point event.

Even circumcision was a replacement for child sacrifice.

Read this part from

Blood and Men

" The biblical focus of brit milah, the covenant of circumcision, is the removal of that foreskin and the subsequent releasing of blood. Since, in general, blood atones, we may assume the blood of the brit milah also atones. It is an offering. Perhaps this is the meaning of the verse in Genesis 9:5, "But for your own lifeblood will I require a reckoning." We know that blood belongs to God alone, as does the firstborn of human, beast, and fruit. The blood of the brit milah is in exchange for the child's very life. The Torah teaches that an animal cannot be sacrificed before the eighth day after its birth, so male Israelites must be circumcised precisely on the eighth day, when their blood will be reckoned as a sacrifice."

And this

Child Sacrifice, Ethical Responsibility and the Existence of the People of Israel on JSTOR

You are putting God on some level besides being God. Religion did Not 'evolve' to a point of God being 'needed' or what ever it is you're trying to suggest. Are you trying to do Theistic Evolution possibly? And then, all of a sudden, turn the tables to Agree with everyone.

Almost like the end results justify the questionable ways to get To the end.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

You are putting God on some level besides being God. Religion did Not 'evolve' to a point of God being 'needed' or what ever it is you're trying to suggest. Are you trying to do Theistic Evolution possibly? And then, all of a sudden, turn the tables to Agree with everyone.

Almost like the end results justify the questionable ways to get To the end.

Maybe you would prefer the word "developed" instead of evolve which seems to be a swear word around some Christians who might think it refers to biological evolution.

 

[Blunder_Duck]

American Bible Society:
HOW THE BIBLE CAME TO US

 

[Sue D.]

@Blunder_Duck -- I read the article you included -- it left out one very important element -- that the books of the Bible were God-breathed to the authors who wrote them. It's referred to as the inspiration of the Word of God / the Bible / Scriptures.

Parts of the article make it sound like -- all those centuries ago -- men and women sat down with their kids and told them stories about life and what they understood about the world, etc.

When I saw the article came from the American Bible Society -- I'd Hoped it would be a little more along the lines of inspiration.

 

[Blunder_Duck]

@Blunder_Duck -- I read the article you included -- it left out one very important element -- that the books of the Bible were God-breathed to the authors who wrote them. It's referred to as the inspiration of the Word of God / the Bible / Scriptures.

Parts of the article make it sound like -- all those centuries ago -- men and women sat down with their kids and told them stories about life and what they understood about the world, etc.

When I saw the article came from the American Bible Society -- I'd Hoped it would be a little more along the lines of inspiration.

I think the reason the site doesn't refer to the history of the Bible's compilation as being inspired is because during that process it wasn't a material factor for the scribes compiling the books. The sources varied. Scrolls, parchment, etc... All being reviewed to assure a proper context that would flow from beginning to end in creating a bound scripture book.
The claim of God breathed, or 'inspired', only appeared in 2 Timothy 3:16 long years after the process began.
It is why from the time the Bible was first published it has never had, "God's Word", inscribed on the cover. It is the Holy Bible, Bible from the word, Biblia, or, Biblicos, "Holy Book".

I think Bible Society wanted to keep the article precise as to source of the materials used in the process as most Christians see it as a given that the Bible contains God's words. Even when they are there by the election of men who served in several different councils in order to arrive at what today we call the canonical books.

 

[Sue D.]

Unfortunately Lots of people Don't accept the Bible as being God's Word. Lots of people equate God's Word with Esops' Fables. Interesting stories and some with good moral value.

The Bible not only Contains God's Words -- it IS God's Word.

 

[Br. Bear]

The NT has completely set us free from any requirements found in the OT. If you have the Son you are free indeed and are a new creation in Christ. All and old things have passed a way and your new life is IN Christ and Him only. The blood of Christ is the complete and perfect sacrificial offerings for our sins (atonement) that God required. The OT has been superseded by the NT.