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God’s ways are not our ways - Don’t read into the Bible your own desires and sensibilities!

We left off discussing Micah 6:6-8, where the divinely inspired prophet wrote these words: “ With what shall I come before the Lord, and bow down before God on high. Should I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old? Does the Lord want a thousand rams, with myriads of rivers of fat? Should I give by oldest son as a sin offering, the fruit of my belly as a sin offering for my soul? He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.”


What Micah was doing is trying to find the very best ways to please God, so he mentioned what he considered the best things. And it says he considered sacrificing a child along with the other sacrifices God demanded in order to please him. The fact that God tells Micah he only wants justice and mercy does not undercut that Micah believed child sacrifice was acceptable to God, for it’s listed among other types of sacrifices that ARE pleasing to God. Nor does it undercut that God demanded child sacrifices ( Exodus 22:29; Ezekiel 20: 25-26). God certainly didn’t condemn Jepthah when he sacrificed his daughter to God ( Judges 11:39). And God requested a child sacrifice of Abraham with no condemnation whatsoever against the practice. (He was not just testing Abraham- that is rather lame) God didn't even chastise Micah for suggesting such a thing, which is what you or I would do. Do you see now why God’s ways are not our ways? You are taking a caviller approach to this topic.

God only condemned child sacrifice when it was done to foreign gods: How do we know - look at how upset God becomes in Jeremiah 19: "You shall say, ‘Hear the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem. Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon this place that the ears of every one who hears of it will tingle. 4 Because the people have forsaken me, and have profaned this place by burning incense in it to other gods whom neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah have known; and because they have filled this place with the blood of innocents, 5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind; 6 therefore, behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when this place shall no more be called Topheth, or the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of Slaughter. 7 And in this place I will make void the plans of Judah and Jerusalem, and will cause their people to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hand of those who seek their life. I will give their dead bodies for food to the birds of the air and to the beasts of the earth. 8 And I will make this city a horror, a thing to be hissed at; every one who passes by it will be horrified and will hiss because of all its disasters. 9 And I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and their daughters, and every one shall eat the flesh of his neighbour in the siege and in the distress, with which their enemies and those who seek their life afflict them.’

God will make them eat the flesh of their children and neighbours! God was so angry that all were to be slaughtered. Not only the amount that were originally sacrificed. As a result many more children will die and/or be fatherless, and/or be eaten. Why did God not just send them a prophet to rebuke them "Thou shalt not sacrifice or kill any man woman or child to me," and say it as often as needed without also allowing the conflicting messages and lack of condemnation for such practices elsewhere in the Bible, like asking Abraham to do it and not also condemn such a practice, or like letting Jepthah do it without sending a prophet to him to tell him it’s forbidden? Because God's way are not ours!!!!!

Read Doves post she makes a good point. It is like when God hardens someones heart. He does not actually harden it. He stops trying to reach them. Stops knocking on it. Stops His protection. Gives them over to their desires. Their wickedness. This truth is making my mind run on what is awaiting those who go to hell. They are surrounded by wicked only people.

You are reaching with Micah.
 
How is what he is saying worse then your belief of God eternally torturing the wicked?

A righteous question! I reluctantly submitted to ministries that involve substance abusers. I would rather simply preach the gospel and teach Bible at church. It's a major battle to try keeping people from entering eternal damnation, so I still remain on the "front line" of intercession. It all conflicts with a peaceful night' sleep many nights. It was a matter of waiting for a clear coast forecast, then get back to my desire, but it hasn't happened. There is even more desperation now out there. I know from the Bible no persistent sinner will avoid eternal punishment as described in scriptures. It is written. Like the Flood of Noah, it is coming in another form. It's impossible to speak those out of existence. We men can't change what God has decreed for them if they don't repent and show progress. All I can do is give hope in their remaining time slot, and teach them the Way.
 
A righteous question! I reluctantly submitted to ministries that involve substance abusers. I would rather simply preach the gospel and teach Bible at church. It's a major battle to try keeping people from entering eternal damnation, so I still remain on the "front line" of intercession. It all conflicts with a peaceful night' sleep many nights. It was a matter of waiting for a clear coast forecast, then get back to my desire, but it hasn't happened. There is even more desperation now out there. I know from the Bible no persistent sinner will avoid eternal punishment as described in scriptures. It is written. Like the Flood of Noah, it is coming in another form. It's impossible to speak those out of existence. We men can't change what God has decreed for them if they don't repent and show progress. All I can do is give hope in their remaining time slot, and teach them the Way.

I agree. I just want us to all be crystal clear on an important fact. God is light with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5. This is why this thread insinuating God was for child sacrifice is crystal clear evidence of the devil wanting to tarnish God's ''no darkness at all state''. It is the same with eternal torture.

We have to distinguish between 1. Fair punishment 2. Torment as a result of banishment and 3. Torment as a result of God's doing (like a plague / brazen bull / actual torture).

1. Fair punishment is determined on the sin committed Rom 2:6. God will entrust us with judging angels 1 Cor 6:1-8. We can judge fair punishments. For example, 15 lashes for a rapist and 3 for a thief.
2. Luke 13:28 speaks 100% to why they are in anguish. They weep because they are cast out.
3. I have found no scripture that gives us insight into the torment of hell / lake of fire outside of Luke 13:28. I have searched the bible for anything that suggests Dante's inferno or a brazen bull is waiting for the wicked. The bible only has words used by God to describe it. His meaning / use of the words is not always our interpretation. ''Fire, brimstone, darkness, torment and death''.

It seems many have been brainwashed into believing Dante's inferno is an appropriate belief. Dante's inferno paints a picture of God a centillion times worse then child sacrifice. We can't be ignorant of this. The unsaved do believe our God is wicked if we teach this. This belief on hell is the reason people like Victor can be mislead into believing God is fine with child sacrifice. Many other Christians I know have some pet beliefs that point to God having darkness. It is as though we are so ignorant of them. I have also been guilty. This is why I mentioned 1 John 1:5 a hundred times in the recent discussion on hell.
 
You are reaching with Micah.
Lol. Okay i stand corrected. Micah did not think it was a good idea to sacrifice his son. Are we reading the same Bible? The whole idea behind a sacrificial offering is what? To appease and please a fearfull, mighty, righteous God and get his blessing and forgiveness. That is what Micah was asking God. And we ALL know that best sacrifice is the thing MOST dear and precious to you. Would you go to a Law Court dressed as a tramp. Of course not you will be thrown out for DISRESPECT. Offer the CREATOR of the WHOLE UNIVERSE GOD a miserable, lame sacrifice and it is tickets. A sacrifice is only a sacrifice if it hurts. A millionaire can give thousands of dollars to God from his pocket. A farmer can give his best sheep or cow, but His SON well that is an excellent sacrifice.

WHY DO YOU THINK GOD WAS FED UP WITH ANIMAL SACRIFICES. If they were enough to redeem us. Sin demands an excellent blood offering. Read Hebrews for me please. Without the Shedding of Blood There Is No Remission of Sins. Do you think this doctrine fell out of heaven onto Apostle Pauls's head. Nope it was there from the beginning. Every one knows that a sacrifice IS a sacrifice. And no better than the most precious to you.

So you are reaching and have a cavalier attitude to a very serious issue. Or do you think our Lord was NOT sacrificed on the cross to redeem us from sin. The foundation stone and pillar of Christianity is the sacrificial offering of the LAMB OF GOD. And it must be remembered as oft as you can. In Church.

In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. 27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.…1COR 11:26
 
This is why this thread insinuating God was for child sacrifice is crystal clear evidence of the devil wanting to tarnish God's ''no darkness at all state''.

You obviously do not understand Christianity. That is built on a blood sacrifice of the SON of God. Demanded, ordered and carried out by God. READ AFTER ME SLOWLY.

That is why, when Christ came into the world, he said to God, "You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings. But you have given me a body to offer.
Heb 10 :5


God does not want animal sacrifices. So what does HE want. He wants a PERFECT SACRIFICE. WHY??? What is a perfect sacrifice? Oh let me see this is hard, can i call a friend, speak to the priest, the Pope?
 
2 Kings 3:26-27 “When the king of Moab saw that the battle had gone against him, he took with him seven hundred swordsmen to break through to the king of Edom, but they failed. 27 Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall.”

The overwhelming consensus of unbiased scholarly thought over the last decade concludes that child sacrifice was a part and parcel of ancient Israelite religion to large segments of Israelite communities at various periods. You need to read an unbiased scholarly book on ancient Israel. Like “Under Every Green Tree: Popular Religion in Sixth-Century Judah” and Francesca Stavrakopoulou, King Manasseh and Child Sacrifice: Biblical Distortions of Historical Realities.

The word of God says differently. Moab assumed Israel had perished in the battle based on bloodshed, When the Moabites went to collect spoils of the Israelites, they were ambushed.by the Israelites, then they fled.

Why stop supplying evidence where you determine it? You cherry picked an assumed victory for the dark side that didn't happen. You really need to go support the atheists. Here's the truth.
2 Kings 3:26-27 (KJV)
26 And when the king of Moab saw that the battle was too sore for him, he took with him seven hundred men that drew swords, to break through even unto the king of Edom: but they could not.
27 Then he took his eldest son that should have reigned in his stead, and offered him for a burnt offering upon the wall. And there was great indignation against Israel: and they departed from him, and returned to their own land.
 
Lol. Okay i stand corrected. Micah did not think it was a good idea to sacrifice his son. Are we reading the same Bible? The whole idea behind a sacrificial offering is what? To appease and please a fearfull, mighty, righteous God and get his blessing and forgiveness. That is what Micah was asking God. And we ALL know that best sacrifice is the thing MOST dear and precious to you. Would you go to a Law Court dressed as a tramp. Of course not you will be thrown out for DISRESPECT. Offer the CREATOR of the WHOLE UNIVERSE GOD a miserable, lame sacrifice and it is tickets. A sacrifice is only a sacrifice if it hurts. A millionaire can give thousands of dollars to God from his pocket. A farmer can give his best sheep or cow, but His SON well that is an excellent sacrifice.

WHY DO YOU THINK GOD WAS FED UP WITH ANIMAL SACRIFICES. If they were enough to redeem us. Sin demands an excellent blood offering. Read Hebrews for me please. Without the Shedding of Blood There Is No Remission of Sins. Do you think this doctrine fell out of heaven onto Apostle Pauls's head. Nope it was there from the beginning. Every one knows that a sacrifice IS a sacrifice. And no better than the most precious to you.

So you are reaching and have a cavalier attitude to a very serious issue. Or do you think our Lord was NOT sacrificed on the cross to redeem us from sin. The foundation stone and pillar of Christianity is the sacrificial offering of the LAMB OF GOD. And it must be remembered as oft as you can. In Church.

In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. 27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.…1COR 11:26

Micah and all the Jews knew of Isa 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

The Jews knew they were a chosen race. They knew what they were chosen for. Micah would have read of Abraham and Jesus. That would have been his reason for stating what he did.

Micah did not actually sacrifice his son. Nor did God tell him to. This is why I say you are reaching with Micah. We have already discussed Abraham. Let's just consider Jesus.
 
You obviously do not understand Christianity. That is built on a blood sacrifice of the SON of God. Demanded, ordered and carried out by God. READ AFTER ME SLOWLY.

That is why, when Christ came into the world, he said to God, "You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings. But you have given me a body to offer.
Heb 10 :5


God does not want animal sacrifices. So what does HE want. He wants a PERFECT SACRIFICE. WHY??? What is a perfect sacrifice? Oh let me see this is hard, can i call a friend, speak to the priest, the Pope?

You were correct when you said a sacrifice must be something dear to us. That is the only truth to God choosing His Son. You reach when you imply God wants that of us. Jesus was a lamb to the slaughter at age 33.

He chose to submit His will to the Fathers Matt 26:39. He says He was God John 10:30. This is why the Jews wanted to crucify Him all the more John 5:18.

So, we don't see any ''child sacrifice''. We see Jesus at age 33 choosing to lay His life down for the Father. We see God choosing to lay His life down for mankind John 3:16.

We also know from Eph 1:4 that Jesus was planned from before the foundations of the world. Mankind + Savior was God's plan from the beginning.
 
You obviously do not understand Christianity.

We all need to understand 1 John 1:5 with crystal clarity. Every person on this planet will agree that child sacrifice is utter darkness.

From the amplified - 1 John 1:5 This is the message [of God’s promised revelation] which we have heard from Him and now announce to you, that God is Light [He is holy, His message is truthful, He is perfect in righteousness], and in Him there is no darkness at all [no sin, no wickedness, no imperfection].
 
Reaching - Adult human sacrifice is okay. Is that what you are saying.
How can you say reaching when every person on this planet knows there is a world of difference between a child and an adult. It is the reason you have taken this thread in the direction you have. You are angered at the idea of child sacrifice as we all should be. Then you interpret Jesus's willingness to lay His life down as evidence of God being ok with human sacrifice? You know the scriptures well enough to know that Christianity 101 is that God desires us to be able to lay our lives down for Him Matt 16:24, Rev 2:10. He lay His life down for us. He will do anything for us. He expects the same level of dedication from us. Not ''human sacrifice''.

You need to do a study on Moloch Moloch - Wikipedia.

2 Kings 23:10: "And he (King Josiah of Judah) defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech."

Jeremiah 32:35: "And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.


It is because of sins like this that God ordered genocide. Now you want to paint God who ordered their death and called this an ABOMINATION with the same brush?
 
How can you say reaching when every person on this planet knows there is a world of difference between a child and an adult. It is the reason you have taken this thread in the direction you have. You are angered at the idea of child sacrifice as we all should be. Then you interpret Jesus's willingness to lay His life down as evidence of God being ok with human sacrifice? You know the scriptures well enough to know that Christianity 101 is that God desires us to be able to lay our lives down for Him Matt 16:24, Rev 2:10. He lay His life down for us. He will do anything for us. He expects the same level of dedication from us. Not ''human sacrifice''.

Nope - why did God want blood sacrificial offerings in the OT?
For atonement.
Why was Jesus sacrificed by God?
For atonement.
Most sacrificed are willing.

Look at the story Jephthah's daughter in the OP. She is a figure in the Hebrew Bible, whose story is recounted in Judges 11. The judge Jephthah had just won a battle over the Ammonites, and vowed that he would offer the first thing that came out of his house as a burnt offering to Yahweh. However, his only child, an came out to meet him dancing and playing a tambourine (v. 34). She encourages Jephthah to fulfill his vow (v. 36) but asks for two months to weep for her virginity (v. 38). After this period of time Jephthah fulfilled his vow and offered his daughter.

The majority opinion among scholars is that Jephthah killed his daughter as an act of willing human sacrifice.
 
He lay His life down for us. He will do anything for us. He expects the same level of dedication from us. Not ''human sacrifice''.

Nope - God, speaking to Moses, declares: “For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.” Leviticus 17:11

Blood makes atonement. THE SHEDDING OF BLOOD. Without blood their is NO remission from sin. Hebrews 9:22
all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.


Oh, the blood of Jesus!
Oh, the blood of Jesus!
Oh, the blood of Jesus!
It washes white as snow.

What can wash away my sins?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
 
Now you want to paint God

A “sacrifice” is defined as the offering up of something precious for a cause or a reason. Making atonement is satisfying someone or something for an offense committed. In other words, those who are covered by the blood sacrifice are set free from the consequences of sin. JESUS IS A BLOOD OFFERING SACRIFICE. It is totally relevant if he laid down his precious life. THE POINT IS THAT GOD SACRIFICED HIM FOR OUR SINS AS AN ATONEMENT. Nothing else than the blood of Jesus would suffice. Why? Because as the SON of God he was the most precious to God.
And only the most precious is good enough.

When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, e“It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. Jn19:30

Heb9;11-18
But when Christ appeared as a high priest gof the good things that have come,5 then through hthe greater and more perfect tent (inot made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12 he jentered konce for all into the holy places, not by means of lthe blood of goats and calves but mby means of his own blood, nthus securing an eternal redemption. 13 For if othe blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with pthe ashes of a heifer, sanctify6 for the purification of the flesh, 14 how much more will qthe blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit roffered himself without blemish to God, spurify our7 conscience tfrom dead works uto serve the living God.


15 Therefore he is vthe mediator of a new covenant, so that wthose who are called may xreceive the promised eternal inheritance, ysince a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.8 16 For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. 17 For za will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.

18 Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated with out blood.
 
He expects the same level of dedication from us
That might be so. But no one gets to heaven on his own steam. No matter how dedicated they are. It is the blood of Christ. That gets you there. And when first born children are mentioned with animals and first fruits of the land as offerings to God. Is it not lying when people like you are okay with saying that it means dedication only when the animals were NOT dedicated but burnt as an offering. Really? Animals are burnt but children are not. Then why mention them with animals. Because children were an asset. Just like animals. and crops. Wifes were also an asset. so were slaves.All possessions. And possessions can be offered as a sacrifice!!!! To appease God the best offering would be a first born boy. You know this but remain unrepentant and willfully ignorant bordering on delusional.
 
Nope - why did God want blood sacrificial offerings in the OT?
For atonement.
Why was Jesus sacrificed by God?
For atonement.
Most sacrificed are willing.

Look at the story Jephthah's daughter in the OP. She is a figure in the Hebrew Bible, whose story is recounted in Judges 11. The judge Jephthah had just won a battle over the Ammonites, and vowed that he would offer the first thing that came out of his house as a burnt offering to Yahweh. However, his only child, an came out to meet him dancing and playing a tambourine (v. 34). She encourages Jephthah to fulfill his vow (v. 36) but asks for two months to weep for her virginity (v. 38). After this period of time Jephthah fulfilled his vow and offered his daughter.

The majority opinion among scholars is that Jephthah killed his daughter as an act of willing human sacrifice.

Jephthah made a foolish vow to God. God did not tell him to do it.
 
Nope - God, speaking to Moses, declares: “For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.” Leviticus 17:11

Blood makes atonement. THE SHEDDING OF BLOOD. Without blood their is NO remission from sin. Hebrews 9:22
all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.


Oh, the blood of Jesus!
Oh, the blood of Jesus!
Oh, the blood of Jesus!
It washes white as snow.

What can wash away my sins?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
The shedding of blood is needed as a sacrifice for our sins. Jesus's blood is the only worthy sacrifice. No argument there. The Bible paints the picture that that is so because God wants mankind as part of His family. It refers to us as His bride, His children.
 
A “sacrifice” is defined as the offering up of something precious for a cause or a reason. Making atonement is satisfying someone or something for an offense committed.
A child sacrifice would be an offense committed.

JESUS IS A BLOOD OFFERING SACRIFICE. It is totally relevant if he laid down his precious life. THE POINT IS THAT GOD SACRIFICED HIM FOR OUR SINS AS AN ATONEMENT. Nothing else than the blood of Jesus would suffice. Why? Because as the SON of God he was the most precious to God.
And only the most precious is good enough.
Yes, only the blood of Jesus. Only bulls and goats OT.

Are you trying to insinuate God wants us to sacrifice our babies because God sacrificed His Son? I am not fully grasping where you heading or what your underlying point is. Please can you clarify it.
 
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