TouchTestimony
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Do followers of other religions, people who do not believe in or follow Christ, get passage into heaven as well, or are they destined for hell?
Hell for non-followers of Christ?
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Konquistador
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Theologians have debated this for centuries, each side able to quote isolated verses from the Bible, usually out of context.
I follow Wesley's thoughts, that although I have an opinion about it, my opinion is irrelevant because only God is the ultimate judge. My job is to love my neighbor no matter what, and that includes bringing the Good News to whomever I meet via my actions, if not also in my words of evangelism if the situation warrants.
It is not up to me to judge God and whether he allows anyone into Heaven, be they murderers, pedophiles, people I don't like, or whomever. It IS up to me to love my neighbors, including my enemies and others I don't like.
I am reminded of a British detective program, where the conclusion was that the girl had committed suicide, and her father said he could never forgive her because suicide was a sin that God could not forgive. Privately, the detective asked the mother how she felt, did she think her daughter was going to Hell because God could not forgive suicide. The mother answered, "Well, I forgive her for suicide, and if I can forgive as a mere mortal, it is inconceivable that the God of infinite mercy could not forgive her and deny her into Heaven."
I think that's a pretty profound statement of understanding God's infinite forgiveness, which is beyond our understanding and not for us to judge another human being, no matter what our own mortal picayune understanding and opinion is.
I follow Wesley's thoughts, that although I have an opinion about it, my opinion is irrelevant because only God is the ultimate judge. My job is to love my neighbor no matter what, and that includes bringing the Good News to whomever I meet via my actions, if not also in my words of evangelism if the situation warrants.
It is not up to me to judge God and whether he allows anyone into Heaven, be they murderers, pedophiles, people I don't like, or whomever. It IS up to me to love my neighbors, including my enemies and others I don't like.
I am reminded of a British detective program, where the conclusion was that the girl had committed suicide, and her father said he could never forgive her because suicide was a sin that God could not forgive. Privately, the detective asked the mother how she felt, did she think her daughter was going to Hell because God could not forgive suicide. The mother answered, "Well, I forgive her for suicide, and if I can forgive as a mere mortal, it is inconceivable that the God of infinite mercy could not forgive her and deny her into Heaven."
I think that's a pretty profound statement of understanding God's infinite forgiveness, which is beyond our understanding and not for us to judge another human being, no matter what our own mortal picayune understanding and opinion is.
Yes
If you have not accepted Christ as your saviour that you will go to hell.
Jesus died and paid for our sins, but by rejecting Him you are saying "I don't accept His sacrifice *I* want to pay for my own sins...and that is how you end up in hell.
Imagine if you are convicted of a crime, lets say murder. The jury finds you guilty and you recieve the death sentence.
Right after the verdict is read out, a man enters the courtroom. He says - Do not charge this person with this crime, I want to take their place.
If the guilty one refuses this, then the man has no choice but to walk away and the guilty person will recieve their punishment.
This is exactly how it is with salvation.
If you have not accepted Christ as your saviour that you will go to hell.
Jesus died and paid for our sins, but by rejecting Him you are saying "I don't accept His sacrifice *I* want to pay for my own sins...and that is how you end up in hell.
Imagine if you are convicted of a crime, lets say murder. The jury finds you guilty and you recieve the death sentence.
Right after the verdict is read out, a man enters the courtroom. He says - Do not charge this person with this crime, I want to take their place.
If the guilty one refuses this, then the man has no choice but to walk away and the guilty person will recieve their punishment.
This is exactly how it is with salvation.
Do you base this on scripture?
TouchTestimony
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a little more clarity, perhaps?
Of course it's based on scripture.
Is what I said word for word in Scripture? - No
Is it an accurate description of salvation? - Yes!
There is none righteous; not even one. Romans 3:10
For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12
Is what I said word for word in Scripture? - No
Is it an accurate description of salvation? - Yes!
There is none righteous; not even one. Romans 3:10
For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12
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Jiggyfly, We are all guilty of sin. Like the fictional man i used in my example. The judge represents God, the man represents us. We have all been found guilty and deserving of the death penalty - hell. Jesus stepped in and said - *I* will pay for their sins, which He did.
If we do not accept His sacrifice then we will have to pay for our own sins in hell. *someone* has to pay. - Jesus did that. But if we say - No...i dont accept what you have done for me....then we will pay for our own sins in hell.
If we do not accept His sacrifice then we will have to pay for our own sins in hell. *someone* has to pay. - Jesus did that. But if we say - No...i dont accept what you have done for me....then we will pay for our own sins in hell.
Can you give some scriptures that say that "if we don't accept Jesus' sacrifice that we will have to pay for our own sins in hell".
What is the just punishment for sin?
Who did Christ die for?
HoneyBare
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I can't believe you don't agree with this analogy, Jig. I will try to find the verses you are requesting, but I have to say . . . I agree with all Isla said and don't understand the confusion.
HoneyBare
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One of the verses I found to answer the first question, "if we don't accept Jesus' sacrifice that we will have to pay for our own sins in hell" is in Heb 3:7-11, verse 11 being the main one, "So I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest." I'm thinking that means he will not go to Heaven.
Christ died for all of us, but only those who trust in him as Savior will be with Him in Heaven, and not go to Hell. Am I missing something here?
And the just punishment for sin is total separation from Christ.
Christ died for all of us, but only those who trust in him as Savior will be with Him in Heaven, and not go to Hell. Am I missing something here?
And the just punishment for sin is total separation from Christ.
hell for non-followers
Konquistador, your reasoning is out of kilter.
Yes we should love all others regardless.
But Jesus did say "6*Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.
Jn 14:6
it is through the Blood of Jesus we have our sins washed away.
No other way to God's heaven.
No matter how we try to imagine that God will save all, those who reject jesus's offer will not be foung righteous.
Konquistador, your reasoning is out of kilter.
Yes we should love all others regardless.
But Jesus did say "6*Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.
Jn 14:6
it is through the Blood of Jesus we have our sins washed away.
No other way to God's heaven.
No matter how we try to imagine that God will save all, those who reject jesus's offer will not be foung righteous.
I asked for scripture to support what you stated which by the way is a forum rule.
I am not trying to come against you, you are free to express your beliefs but I want it to be clear and rightly divide the scriptures. You said earlier that you based your belief on the scriptures and so I've asked for those scriptures. (Refer to forum rule #7 please.)
Ok do you have any scripture that states the just punishment for sin is separation from Christ?
Do you believe that Christ paid the penalty for your sin? If so what was it? (To save time please list scriptures that you feel pertain to your belief when you respond.)
He understands what you're saying, and I am sure he agrees with it. One of the forum rules is to provide scripture as proof. It helps everyone understand what exactly you are saying. We know the scriptures so we understand, but someone who doesn't would be like...what?
This is not about what I believe it is about you posting the scriptures that support the belief you posted earlier. If you don't have scripture to post then just say so and in the future refrain from saying something is scriptural supported without posting the supporting scriptures. (This is a forum rule)
