Hell for non-followers of Christ?
- Thread starter TouchTestimony
- Start date
TouchTestimony
Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2011
- Messages
- 183
Continuing with this reasoning, if i accept that Jesus has already paid for my sins; can i carry on sinning, assured that i will find room in heaven?
The Rich Man and Lazarus Luke 16:19-31
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
What about that ^^^
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
What about that ^^^
Brother Mike
Member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2008
- Messages
- 1,335
Scriptures.....
Isla_Rose:
While we each have different ideas, views and belief's on what the word says (Doctrine) in a forum setting where everyone is learning it is appropriate to post scriptures to questions and substantiate any belief system presented.
These questions were not addressed with any scripture. That is scripture that specifically says that punishment of sin is a separation from Christ
Ok do you have any scripture that states the just punishment for sin is separation from Christ?
Do you believe that Christ paid the penalty for your sin? If so what was it? (To save time please list scriptures that you feel pertain to your belief when you respond.)
Continuing with this reasoning, if i accept that Jesus has already paid for my sins; can i carry on sinning, assured that i will find room in heaven?
While you did post scriptures, not one answers these questions or address these specific area's...All that was asked is how you come to these conclusions with the scripture you posted.... Not that hard..
Not sure how you get this out of the scriptures you posted??? Can you elaborate?
While It may seem to be nitpicking, on a forum setting anything can go if rules and questions are not answered. There are times myself where I felt Jiggyfly to be very harsh, (And fully expected since Jiggyfly and I do not agree on a lot of Doctrine) but in this case all that is wanted is affirmation of what you believe... Nobody is in disagreement.
It is perfectly OK to admit you need help finding scriptures to support what you believe is true...
Jesus Is Lord.
Isla_Rose:
While we each have different ideas, views and belief's on what the word says (Doctrine) in a forum setting where everyone is learning it is appropriate to post scriptures to questions and substantiate any belief system presented.
These questions were not addressed with any scripture. That is scripture that specifically says that punishment of sin is a separation from Christ
Ok do you have any scripture that states the just punishment for sin is separation from Christ?
Do you believe that Christ paid the penalty for your sin? If so what was it? (To save time please list scriptures that you feel pertain to your belief when you respond.)
Continuing with this reasoning, if i accept that Jesus has already paid for my sins; can i carry on sinning, assured that i will find room in heaven?
While you did post scriptures, not one answers these questions or address these specific area's...All that was asked is how you come to these conclusions with the scripture you posted.... Not that hard..
Not sure how you get this out of the scriptures you posted??? Can you elaborate?
While It may seem to be nitpicking, on a forum setting anything can go if rules and questions are not answered. There are times myself where I felt Jiggyfly to be very harsh, (And fully expected since Jiggyfly and I do not agree on a lot of Doctrine) but in this case all that is wanted is affirmation of what you believe... Nobody is in disagreement.
It is perfectly OK to admit you need help finding scriptures to support what you believe is true...
Jesus Is Lord.
Please repost them now and lets look at them together.
Thanks for the clarification BM.
Last edited:
I am assuming that this is the post you were referring to Isla_Rose. Lets look at these together.
Ok no one is righteous.
OK everyone has sinned and fallen short.
Ahhh, the wages of sin are death.
Yes, salvation can only be found in Christ Jesus.
Now I am failing to see mentioned in the scriptures you posted that the just punishment for sin is separation from Christ nor am I seeing anything about "paying for your own sins in hell".
Sometimes we form conclusions on bad information and I know that I have time and again through the years on various things especially concerning this topic. When I used to participate within the religious institution it was very common to accept what pastor says this or that scripture means without studying it for ourselves.
I hope you see my challenge to you of producing supporting scriptures is intended as a help.
Last edited:
The Bible tells us “all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” Romans 3:23
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins."
John 8:24
If you die in your sins you will go to hell.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
The wages of sin is death, death by going to the lake of fire. (The second death)
If you accept Christ you have eternal life in heaven, and you do not you go to hell.
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." -Revelation 20:15
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins."
John 8:24
If you die in your sins you will go to hell.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
The wages of sin is death, death by going to the lake of fire. (The second death)
If you accept Christ you have eternal life in heaven, and you do not you go to hell.
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." -Revelation 20:15
Last edited:
Quite simply the answer is NO unbelievers will never enter into glory.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Last edited:
Sorry Isla_rose but still not seeing "the just punishment for sin is separation from Christ" or "paying for your own sin in hell".
The just punishment for sin is death just like Paul said in the verse you quoted from Romans.
Do you believe in annihilation or unending torment in hell?
Jiggyfly, any christian will tell you that the result of dying in sin without Christ is hell. Hell is an eternal torment. If you don't believe this then I pray the Holy Spirit will open your eyes up to the truth.
This is the last thing I will say on this topic.
This is the last thing I will say on this topic.
Last edited:
If Jesus paid for your sin is He in hell being tormented? Your reasoning seems flawed.
I pray that your eyes be opened also.
Where did you get the notion that Isla Rose said that Christ was in hell? She never said this at all!! She is quite correct unbelievers will go to hell and be in torment eternally.
I did not "get the notion", you probably need to go back and read the thread.
I was making a point concerning the just punishment for sin. If it is unending torment in hell and Jesus took our punishment then Jesus would have to be suffering unending torment in hell.
But the truth is the just punishment for sin is not unending torment in hell but rather death, just as the scriptures declare. So what is the punishment of unending torment in hell for?
Last edited:
RJ
Active
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2009
- Messages
- 4,080
This is a fatal flaw, not you per-say but, many hold this type of logic against Christians.
No human, Christian or not is void of sin. To ever doubt and be neagative is a sin no worse than any of the "dirty dozen" or the "Nasty Five".
A true"Born Again", having the Spirit of God in them does not pay the ultimate price, hell or the total absence of God and perfection.
To address your question: A true Christian, as I stated above, will continue to sin to some degree and to live according to the flesh and not according to the will of God or the Spirit. This does not give them nor does a Christian take it to mean that they have a free license to sin. They hate sin and they listen to Spirit and work on it.
If person doesn't sense this struggle, maybe they have not been saved in the first place. Look at what Paul said about his own struggle between the flesh and the spirit in Romans 7 (paraphrasing): " I don't do what I want to do" and "I do what I don't want to do". He also reveals, as a Christian, he knows the difference between sining and not: He basically said that, " before Christ, "I didn't know what covetness was".
Look what Paul follows up with in the opening sentence of Romans 8: " There is therefore, no condemnation for those who are in Christ, but who walk in the Spirit and not after the flesh".
So it is with a Christian, we know we don't do it perfectly and know Jesus took care of that on the cross but, we strive to walk in the Spirit and not to the desires of the flesh.
Last edited:
Please should me where Isla rose stated that Christ was in hell...the fact is she did NOT.
What you have stated about Christ being in hell is rubbish.Where are the the scriptures to back up what you are saying?
Here is the scripture to back up that there will be eternal punishment.
Matt 25:4 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Tinks I am not sure what country you are from (it's not displayed) but I will assume that you speak something other than English which could explain your misunderstanding my post.
Let me make it clear as I can, Christ is not in hell suffering unending torment for our sins because unending torment is not the just punishment for anyone's sin but death is which is why Christ had to die on the cross.
The punishment for sin is death, not unending torment, nor separation from Christ or 15 hail Marys. Again death in the just punishment for sin.
Christ is now at the right hand of the Father after paying the penalty for our sins through dying on the cross and then being raised from the dead.
You might try looking up those scriptures in the Greek text. Aion and aionios do not always mean eternal or for ever, Young's lit. and the Concordant lit. have it as age-during or age-lasting. Grant it, it does require some study but it's all there.
Last edited:
CookieRaider
Member
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2011
- Messages
- 51
Why would Jesus need to go to hell for? I thought Jesus was God in flesh. I would agree that hell is real, Jesus himself said so in Luke 12:5. But listen: God doesn’t want us to go there! If we do, it will only be because of our stubborn desire to leave God out of our lives.
CookieRaider
Member
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2011
- Messages
- 51
I thought the person spoke great English so that really isn't the reason. Just because someone doesn't agree or is pointing out something doesn't mean they don't speak a language well enough.
