Hell for non-followers of Christ?

[tinks]

Tinks I am not sure what country you are from (it's not displayed) but I will assume that you speak something other than English which could explain your misunderstanding my post.

Let me make it clear as I can, Christ is not in hell suffering unending torment for our sins because unending torment is not the just punishment for anyone's sin but death is which is why Christ had to die on the cross.

The punishment for sin is death, not unending torment, nor separation from Christ or 15 hail Marys. Again death in the just punishment for sin.

Christ is now at the right hand of the Father after paying the penalty for our sins through dying on the cross and then being raised from the dead.

You might try looking up those scriptures in the Greek text. Aion and aionios do not always mean eternal or for ever, Young's lit. and the Concordant lit. have it as age-during or age-lasting. Grant it, it does require some study but it's all there.

Let me make this very clear..I find you to be extremely rude ...I was born and raised in an English speaking country and therefore find no difficultly in reading or understanding English. You are still not able to show me where Isla rose said that Chrsit was in hell.
I enjoy having meaningful discussings with other believers and you are the first I have come across on a Christian forum who misquotes others and is so very conceited.
I have quoted the relevent scriptures and will not spend any further time discussing this issue with you.

 

[Isla_Rose]

Jiggyfly, your behaviour is beyond appalling. You are a liar, I have NEVER said Christ EVER went to hell, it is you who does not understand English. I have reported your lies and behaviour to admin.

 

[MsMree]

Hi jiggyfly.

I'm taking a guess that what you were aiming for was there is no such thing as "Hell". That Jesus, fully God, fully man, paid with his physical and spiritual death and went to Heaven.

So are you saying that the concept of "hell" is based on the burning pit outside of Jerusalem and that the "eternal punishment" for those who aren't saved, is just death?

I just want to understand what you believe. I'm not judging you for that belief or attacking you or calling you faith into question or anything. I just want to understand cause I'm not sure.

Thank you for your time in responding.

 

[jiggyfly]

Hi jiggyfly.

I'm taking a guess that what you were aiming for was there is no such thing as "Hell". That Jesus, fully God, fully man, paid with his physical and spiritual death and went to Heaven.

So are you saying that the concept of "hell" is based on the burning pit outside of Jerusalem and that the "eternal punishment" for those who aren't saved, is just death?

I just want to understand what you believe. I'm not judging you for that belief or attacking you or calling you faith into question or anything. I just want to understand cause I'm not sure.

Thank you for your time in responding.

No, I am not saying that there is no such thing as hell, I am saying that the punishment for sin is death not unending torment or separation from Christ.

 

[jiggyfly]

Let me make this very clear..I find you to be extremely rude ...I was born and raised in an English speaking country and therefore find no difficultly in reading or understanding English. You are still not able to show me where Isla rose said that Chrsit was in hell.
I enjoy having meaningful discussings with other believers and you are the first I have come across on a Christian forum who misquotes others and is so very conceited.
I have quoted the relevent scriptures and will not spend any further time discussing this issue with you.

Suppose you point out where I said that Isla_rose said "that Christ was in hell".

I will give you a chance to reread the posts referenced, just use the quote tool and we can go from there. Sorry for the wrong assumption about you English. Please make sure you understand my post before commenting further.

 

[Quenton]

No, I am not saying that there is no such thing as hell, I am saying that the punishment for sin is death not unending torment or separation from Christ.

So your saying the only "punishment" man faces is death..we all die..unless you mean death as in no longer existing?

 

[jiggyfly]

So your saying the only "punishment" man faces is death..we all die..unless you mean death as in no longer existing?

No that's not at all what I am saying, reread it it right there in black and white.:wink:

 

[Quenton]

No that's not at all what I am saying, reread it it right there in black and white.:wink:

saw the same thing...that's what i'm getting that your saying there is no hell as in punishment the only punishment is death

 

[lioncub]

What God has in store for the wicked is a place of eternal punishment. Let no-one deceive you.

Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

And don't think that followers of Christ are immune either.

 

[jiggyfly]

saw the same thing...that's what i'm getting that your saying there is no hell as in punishment the only punishment is death

Here is exactly what I said.

No, I am not saying that there is no such thing as hell, I am saying that the punishment for sin is death not unending torment or separation from Christ.

Now I cant' help if people want to assume and read things into what was said that simply aren't there. I am trying to clarify the just punishment for sin and that is all.

 

[Fraction]

No that's not at all what I am saying, reread it it right there in black and white.:wink:

It's not in black and white. Nothing you have said in this topic is in black and white.

What God has in store for the wicked is a place of eternal punishment. Let no-one deceive you.

Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

And don't think that followers of Christ are immune either.

John 3:16

 

[RJ]

Sorry Isla_rose but still not seeing "the just punishment for sin is separation from Christ" or "paying for your own sin in hell".

The just punishment for sin is death just like Paul said in the verse you quoted from Romans.

Do you believe in annihilation or unending torment in hell?

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The keys here are death and eternal life in Christ Jesus.

To be a Christian in to be indwelt with the Holy Spirit. We live our lives in Christ and He lives in us. This is your salvation; it is Christ in you that makes you righteous and justified in the eyes of God and you carry this beyond your physical death and live your spiritual life in Christ Jesus for all eternity.

The wages (payment ) for sin with out Christ Jesus is death, "Spiritual Death", the antithesis of Romans 6:23... when you die physically with out Christ Jesus in you, you spend eternity void of God and in total darkness . I don't care how many ways one describes Hell but this will be definitely part of it!!

 

[lioncub]

John 3:16

1. John 3:16 uses the word "should" not be perishing which is a subjunctive in the greek, and does not use: "shall" not be perishing.

2. Jesus spoke these words to Nicodemus. What else did Jesus say to Nicodemus ? You must be born again (John 3:3).

Therefore, Jesus is requiring two things from Nicodemus or us:
i. Be born again (John 3:3)
ii. Believe (John 3:16)

3. Galatians 5:21 says that those who do the works of the flesh shall not inherit the kingdom of God. This book was written to believers.

 

[Fraction]

1. John 3:16 uses the word "should" not be perishing which is a subjunctive in the greek, and does not use: "shall" not be perishing.

2. Jesus spoke these words to Nicodemus. What else did Jesus say to Nicodemus ? You must be born again (John 3:3).

Therefore, Jesus is requiring two things from Nicodemus or us:
i. Be born again (John 3:3)
ii. Believe (John 3:16)

3. Galatians 5:21 says that those who do the works of the flesh shall not inherit the kingdom of God. This book was written to believers.

Other translations use the words "shall" and "will not" in the place of should. The word should in this verse talks about what happens after someone gains faith. Faith = Salvation. Saved by grace.

Being born again walks hand and hand with faith. What you are talking about is repenting. Repenting is a change of mind, a turn around. Repent of sin means to acknowledge that it is wrong. Repent of Jesus Christ, means to go from not believing to believing. (at least in the bible anyway)

If Galatians 5:21 is exactly how you want to throw it out there, no one is going to inherit the kingdom of God. You can't say you are without sin. You cannot claim you do not sin. At least in the flesh anyways.

 

[TouchTestimony]

Here is exactly what I said.


Now I cant' help if people want to assume and read things into what was said that simply aren't there. I am trying to clarify the just punishment for sin and that is all.

hey jiggy, i'm a little confused too. if death is 'the' punishment, and since we known of no immortals amidst us, is it right to assume that all of us will be punished at the end of the day through death?

 

[Fraction]

hey jiggy, i'm a little confused too. if death is 'the' punishment, and since we known of no immortals amidst us, is it right to assume that all of us will be punished at the end of the day through death?

He is talking about the spiritual death, the second death on judgement day.

The ultimate punishment for sin IS death. In this phrase we only see the word "death". However it is much more than just dying a bodily death.

Whoever dies the second death, will experience all the bad things that have been said so far. (IE Separation from Jesus Christ or Hell) It all goes under the same word.

For someone who has gained Salvation (a saved christian), our bodies will die. (physical death) However, our spirits will never die. (spiritual eternal life)

That's how it goes. That's what most people mean when they talk about the punishment for sin is death.

Just saying....

 

[Quenton]

Here is exactly what I said.


Now I cant' help if people want to assume and read things into what was said that simply aren't there. I am trying to clarify the just punishment for sin and that is all.

according to one of the members you basically are saying what i said your saying. how is there a just punishment for sin? The only reason a second death occurs is separation from Christ not sin. Do the go through the punishment for sin yes but that isn't the reason people go to Hell. I hope you'll make it clearer for me if I am still understanding you wrong.

 

[Fraction]

according to one of the members you basically are saying what i said your saying. how is there a just punishment for sin? The only reason a second death occurs is separation from Christ not sin. Do the go through the punishment for sin yes but that isn't the reason people go to Hell. I hope you'll make it clearer for me if I am still understanding you wrong.

Yeah, it's pretty much the same thing though. The punishment for sin, and the punishment for unbelief (self separation from Jesus Christ). Jesus Christ saves us from sin. ONLY THROUGH HIM, is the punishment for sin removed.

 

[lioncub]

Other translations use the words "shall" and "will not" in the place of should. The word should in this verse talks about what happens after someone gains faith. Faith = Salvation. Saved by grace.

Fraction,

Other translations may well say that but it is a subjunctive in the Greek.

 

[ForumAddict]

Grace = salvation through our faith, not that faith itself. Without His grace we are lost.