How could those born BC get into Heaven?

[Andyindauk]

I can only find a handful of less than obvious verses in the Old Testament that mentions that God had a son?

Psalm 2:7-8 “I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.

Psalm 89:26-29 He shall cry to Me, ‘You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation.’ Also I will make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for him forever, And My covenant shall stand firm with him. His seed also I will make to endure forever, And his throne as the days of heaven.

Proverbs 30:4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son’s name, If you know?


So, when Jesus tells us: Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6 NKJV how were those who were born BC able to come to God via Jesus?

Many of the Jews believed that you'll go to Heaven if you keep all of the commandments, the feasts and the rituals listed in the Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the Bible) but James tells us that that's a red herring. James 2:10.

How did the Old Testament Jews and believers get to Heaven?

 

[Waggles]

How did the Old Testament Jews and believers get to Heaven?

They and all others have not gone to Heaven? When people die they do not go to Heaven.
When people die their bodies return to the elements, but the Spirit of God within us returns to God.
God keeps account of every single baby, infant, person young and old who have ever been born from the beginning of creation to the last day.
God knows what every person has ever done or not done in their lives - there are books in Heaven that keep such records.

There is a promise of a first resurrection for the church of God - the Spirit-filled elect who are worthy.
And a thousand years later there is a second resurrection and a judgement for everybody else not of the first resurrection.
The judgement of all humankind before the throne of Jesus is to do with a person's works - which will either condemn them or excuse them.
Those whom God condemns to perdition will be thrown into the lake of fire.
Those judged worthy of life shall not be thrown into the lake of fire.
Our eternal destiny is to be with our God here on a new Earth in which dwells righteousness.

 

[Hekuran]

Here's the Old Testament promise of the resurrection from Daniel 12

“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever."

 

[B-A-C]

They didn't, at least not immediately.

Eph 4:8; Therefore it says, "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN." ( Psa 68:18; )
Eph 4:9; (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10; He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)

When you read this passage, and stories like Lazarus and the rich man. People went to Paradise or Abraham's Bosom. No one went to heaven.
They couldn't until 'The Lamb' was sacrificed and paid the price to redeem them.

Heb 9:20; saying, "THIS IS THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WHICH GOD COMMANDED YOU."
Heb 9:21; And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood.
Heb 9:22; And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Heb 9:23; Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24; For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
Heb 9:25; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.

There is a lot of controversy about this ( what else is new... ) But the idea is.. after Jesus sprinkled His blood on the mercy seat in heaven, then He could take the saints from the old testament.

Heb 9:2; For there was a tabernacle prepared, the outer one, in which were the lampstand and the table and the sacred bread; this is called the holy place.
Heb 9:3; Behind the second veil there was a tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies,
Heb 9:4; having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron's rod which budded, and the tables of the covenant;
Heb 9:5; and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat; but of these things we cannot now speak in detail.
Heb 9:6; Now when these things have been so prepared, the priests are continually entering the outer tabernacle performing the divine worship,
Heb 9:7; but into the second, only the high priest enters once a year, not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins of the people committed in ignorance.
Heb 9:8; The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy place has not yet been disclosed while the outer tabernacle is still standing,
Heb 9:9; which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience,

... which goes into a whole 'another discussion... what/when is the resurrection... a part of it is in Daniel 12 @Hekuran posted above.
There are a dozen verses about being raised up "on the last day" whenever that is... but for this discussion, it doesn't matter that much. The fact remains, the saints
of the old testament could not make it to heaven without Jesus.

Two possible exceptions.
Gen 5:24; Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
Heb 11:5; By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.
2Kin 2:11; As they were going along and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven.

 

[Beetow]

● John 14:6 . . I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father,
but by me.

The Word of John 1:1 hasn't always been human, but has always been light. It
was by means of his light that folks in the BC era came unto God by him.

● John 1:9 . . That was the true light, which enlightens every man that comes into
the world.

FAQ: How did the true light enlighten every BC man where there were no Bibles, no
prophets, no preachers, no gospel, and no education?

REPLY: By means of the cosmos-- the complexity of all its forms of life, matter, and
energy. (Ps 19:1-4 & Rom 1:19-20)

Everyone of age has had at least one encounter with the light working in their
thinking to convince them that our world, and their own sentience, is the result of
intelligent design-- and the light is adequate enough to leave them without excuse
for denying their maker's divine characteristics. (Rom 1:20)
_

 

[PloughBoy]

They and all others have not gone to Heaven? When people die they do not go to Heaven.
When people die their bodies return to the elements, but the Spirit of God within us returns to God.
God keeps account of every single baby, infant, person young and old who have ever been born from the beginning of creation to the last day.
God knows what every person has ever done or not done in their lives - there are books in Heaven that keep such records.

There is a promise of a first resurrection for the church of God - the Spirit-filled elect who are worthy.
And a thousand years later there is a second resurrection and a judgement for everybody else not of the first resurrection.
The judgement of all humankind before the throne of Jesus is to do with a person's works - which will either condemn them or excuse them.
Those whom God condemns to perdition will be thrown into the lake of fire.
Those judged worthy of life shall not be thrown into the lake of fire.
Our eternal destiny is to be with our God here on a new Earth in which dwells righteousness.

That is amazing people think there are people in heaven now. The church and pastors and ministers and evangelist did this. It has been told so much it is embedding into real believers and cannot be remove. So you know many have not read the BOOK like they should and many Think that "The TITHE" is Legal and God has never told people in the church to tithe, and only certain People in The old was supposed to Tithe for Jesus did not even Tithe, he paid A Temple TAX. if he did Tithe, he would have went against the Law of God and he could not have been the {perfect Sacrifice].

They will fight you, call you kinds of devils spitting our fumes and sulfur and call you all kinds of lies! For telling you the truth and they will not read the Whole BOOK and look for the Truth.

We are so evil, the human race, I can see why He made a lake Burning with Brimstone and fire. if we KILL GOD! who fed us and healed us and the next day, we said "CRUCFY HIM"!

You better not sleep with Both eyes close.

 

[Waggles]

Psalm 17:1 A Prayer of David. Hear a just cause, O YHWH attend to my cry! Give ear to my prayer from lips free of deceit!
17:15 As for me, I shall behold your face in righteousness; when I awake, I shall be satisfied with your likeness.

Isaiah 26:19 Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy! For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead.

 

[Waggles]

John 11:21 Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.
22 But even now I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you.”
23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
24 Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”

 

[Hekuran]

That is amazing people think there are people in heaven now. The church and pastors and ministers and evangelist did this. It has been told so much it is embedding into real believers and cannot be remove. So you know many have not read the BOOK like they should and many Think that "The TITHE" is Legal and God has never told people in the church to tithe, and only certain People in The old was supposed to Tithe for Jesus did not even Tithe, he paid A Temple TAX. if he did Tithe, he would have went against the Law of God and he could not have been the {perfect Sacrifice].

They will fight you, call you kinds of devils spitting our fumes and sulfur and call you all kinds of lies! For telling you the truth and they will not read the Whole BOOK and look for the Truth.

We are so evil, the human race, I can see why He made a lake Burning with Brimstone and fire. if we KILL GOD! who fed us and healed us and the next day, we said "CRUCFY HIM"!

You better not sleep with Both eyes close.

It's what I grew up believing and it is utterly amazing what we can read into the text of the Bible confirming our own biases and assumptions.

It took about a year for me to realise what the Bible actually says on this matter and was utterly transformative when it finally clicked into place.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I can only find a handful of less than obvious verses in the Old Testament that mentions that God had a son?

Psalm 2:7-8 “I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.

Psalm 89:26-29 He shall cry to Me, ‘You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation.’ Also I will make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for him forever, And My covenant shall stand firm with him. His seed also I will make to endure forever, And his throne as the days of heaven.

Proverbs 30:4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son’s name, If you know?


So, when Jesus tells us: Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6 NKJV how were those who were born BC able to come to God via Jesus?

Many of the Jews believed that you'll go to Heaven if you keep all of the commandments, the feasts and the rituals listed in the Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the Bible) but James tells us that that's a red herring. James 2:10.

How did the Old Testament Jews and believers get to Heaven?

OT Jews went down to Abraham's bosom, also known as "Paradise". That was permanently changed since Yeshua went down there to have them liberated, for "he has the key of Hades and death."

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

How did the Old Testament Jews and believers get to Heaven?

The same way New Testament believers get to heaven; By faith in the Word of God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God that the OT Jews believed in, even though they didn’t know His name.

Proverbs 30:4
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

 

[Waggles]

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

John 3:13 “And no man hath "ascended up" to heaven, but he that "came down" from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.” ( The Word comes down to dwell in us)

Romans 10:6-8 “But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall "ascend" into heaven? (that is, to bring "Christ down" from above)
7 Or, Who shall "descend" into the deep? (that is, to bring up "Christ" again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? "The word" is nigh thee, even "in" thy mouth, and "in" thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;”

This above also confirms Christ is "the Word", and the very words of God from heaven spoken also by Moses to all of Israel. Paul in Romans 10:6-8 is pulling these words from Deuteronomy chapter 30 verses 11-14 concerning all the Lord commanded him to speak.”

Deuteronomy 30:11-14

King James Version

​

11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.”

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

The firstfruits of Israel have already been redeemed and were ressurected when Jesus was resurrected per the words of God.

The 144,000 “firstfruits” of Israel have already been redeemed!

There are some denominations and doctrines of men out there that like to fancy themselves as the 144,000 firstfruits of Israel. But the words of God say they are already redeemed from the earth. Revelation 14:1-4 14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an...

www.talkjesus.com

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:10
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

 

[Waggles]

The firstfruits of Israel have already been redeemed and were resurrected when Jesus was resurrected per the words of God.

NO
Those that Jesus judges as worthy of the first resurrection when He returns to claim his own.

Romans 8:23 And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, WE ourselves also groan within ourselves, awaiting our adoption, the redemption of our body.
24 For in hope were we saved: but hope seen is not hope: for who hopes for what he sees?
James 1:17 Every good giving and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the lights, with whom is no variation, neither shadow cast by turning.
18 With intent he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Revelation 14 is symbolic and allegorical of the fullness of the elect -
the complete number of those who will rise up to meet Jesus in the air when the last trump shall sound and the dead in Christ shall be changed in a twinkling of an eye -
new spiritual bodies in order to enter the eternity with our God and Saviour.
Will this include people from the OT - yes most likely.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

NO
Those that Jesus judges as worthy of the first resurrection when He returns to claim his own.

Romans 8:23 And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, WE ourselves also groan within ourselves, awaiting our adoption, the redemption of our body.
24 For in hope were we saved: but hope seen is not hope: for who hopes for what he sees?
James 1:17 Every good giving and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the lights, with whom is no variation, neither shadow cast by turning.
18 With intent he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Revelation 14 is symbolic and allegorical of the fullness of the elect -
the complete number of those who will rise up to meet Jesus in the air when the last trump shall sound and the dead in Christ shall be changed in a twinkling of an eye -
new spiritual bodies in order to enter the eternity with our God and Saviour.
Will this include people from the OT - yes most likely.

Yes, it’s true. Believe the words of God.

Revelation 14:1-4​

14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.​

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.”

Many people miss this resurrection of the “firstfruits” of Israel when Jesus was resurrected….

Matthew 27:50-53​

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.​

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”

They were raised when Jesus was raised. Timing confirmed in Isaiah…

Isaiah 26:19
Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

 

[B-A-C]

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”

They didn't rise to eternal life. They aren't still walking around the earth. Like Lazarus, they died again.

2Tim 2:18; men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

They didn't rise to eternal life. They aren't still walking around the earth. Like Lazarus, they died again.

2Tim 2:18; men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.

Not so, they are in heaven with Christ.

Jesus is shown as the firstborn from the dead in Colossians 1:18

But we are also shown a “church of the firstborn” in Hebrews 12:22-23.
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,”

This church of the firstborn from the dead in heaven includes those ressurected saints, being the firstfruits of Israel.

Notice Paul mentions mount Sion is the location of this church of the firstborn, and these spirits of just men made perfect. Mount Sion is where we also see Jesus in heaven with 144,000 in Revelation chapter 14.

Also notice Paul mentions in Hebrews 12:1. A great cloud of witnesses. This cloud of witnesses is what ascended into heaven with Jesus.

Acts 1:9-11​

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”

That cloud represents the saints of the Lord ascending with Jesus.

This same cloud of saints is also prophesied to come with Jesus at his second coming.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Mark 13:26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Jude 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

1 Thessalonians 3:13
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Now to those who deny these 144,000 saints were already ressurected and redeemed from the earth, as written. Then who are all these saints (clouds) that are coming with the Lord at his second coming?

Think about it.

 

[B-A-C]

Not so, they are in heaven with Christ.

They are now. But not then.

Matt 27:51; And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.
Matt 27:52; The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
Matt 27:53; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

They are now. But not then.

Matt 27:51; And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.
Matt 27:52; The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
Matt 27:53; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

My disagreement was with your last post when you said they died again.

The firstfruits of Israel did not die again, as it is written they follow the Lamb where so ever He goes. It is also written that all men are determined to die once, and afterward they are resurrected. Also it is written those who are of the first resurrection shall not taste of the second death.

Here is more proof that some of Gods elect are in heaven. At the second coming when the saints are gathered together, some are gathered from heaven.

Mark 13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: