How could those born BC get into Heaven?

[Bob Carabbio]

How did the Old Testament Jews and believers get to Heaven?

SImple: the died IN FAITH that God would provide a solution to their SIN PROBLEM. and they didn't go to Heaven until Jesus made the perfect SIN OFFERING that Cleansed them from their imperfection in Abraham's Bosom part of the place of the dead. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus gives details.

 

[Beetow]

It mystifies me how Abraham's side of the chasm in Luke 16:19-31 became known
as a body part when his chest area has only room enough for hugging two people
at a time at most.

BTW: The story tells that the rich man went to hades when in fact, both sides of the
chasm is in hades seeing as how in the Jews' Hellenistic thinking of that day, all the
dead went to hades regardless of age, race, gender, or religious preference.
According to Ps 16:8-10, and Acts 2:25-31, Jesus spent some time in hades while
awaiting his resurrection.
_

 

[Andyindauk]

I can only find a handful of less than obvious verses in the Old Testament that mentions that God had a son?

Psalm 2:7-8 “I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.

Psalm 89:26-29 He shall cry to Me, ‘You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation.’ Also I will make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for him forever, And My covenant shall stand firm with him. His seed also I will make to endure forever, And his throne as the days of heaven.

Proverbs 30:4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son’s name, If you know?


So, when Jesus tells us: Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6 NKJV how were those who were born BC able to come to God via Jesus?

Many of the Jews believed that you'll go to Heaven if you keep all of the commandments, the feasts and the rituals listed in the Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the Bible) but James tells us that that's a red herring. James 2:10.

How did the Old Testament Jews and believers get to Heaven?

Clearly there was salvation BC. Paul reminds you of the example of Abraham in Romans 4:1-4 and Genesis 15:6. Abraham, or more correctly Abram, was righteous not through any impressive deeds or achievements but rather through his belief and faith that God would come good on His promise. The promise in question was that he would be the father of many nations, despite being in his eighties and his wife only 10 years younger. God loves and rewards faith and belief in Him.

Around the same time lived another man of great faith called Job. Job knew he had a sin problem, both unintentional sin Job 13:23 and the sins of his youth Job 13:26. He knew he'd fallen short of God's exacting standards and yet this is what he said -

“Oh, that my words were written! Oh, that they were inscribed in a book! That they were engraved on a rock With an iron pen and lead, forever! For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth; And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, That in my flesh I shall see God, Whom I shall see for myself, And my eyes shall behold, and not another. How my heart yearns within me! Job 19:23-27 KJV

He believed in God's salvation. This concept was made widely known by God and written about in Isaiah 26:19-20, Daniel 12:2-3. Indeed fast forward to the Gospels and you’ll read that Jesus's friend, Martha who was no theological scholar, she took her resurrection as future fact, she knew it and believed it. John 11:24.

What wasn't widely known in Old Testament times was that God had a son and that He was to be the instrument of that salvation through His death and resurrection. But that didn't matter, it was faith and belief that God had a plan and was able to save and rescue them from death and give resurrection to eternal life.

Now that that plan has come to fruition, Jesus has been revealed as the author and finisher of our faith, you have to look to Him if you want to participate in that salvation. Jesus said to Martha, Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?” John 11:25‭-‬26 NKJV.

Oh thank you God, oh thank you Jesus for your wonderful and amazing plan to rescue me from the consequences of my bad choices, rebellion, attitude towards you and others aka sin. But at oh, what a cost and yet willingly you went through it, Jesus, you died a horrific death spent a weekend with the dead in Hades and then through your infinite power you were resurrected to life and ascended to Heaven and there you wait patiently for me.

I thank you and praise you God for such an amazing love for you to do that for me. Amen.

 

[KingJ]

I can only find a handful of less than obvious verses in the Old Testament that mentions that God had a son?

Psalm 2:7-8 “I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.

Psalm 89:26-29 He shall cry to Me, ‘You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation.’ Also I will make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for him forever, And My covenant shall stand firm with him. His seed also I will make to endure forever, And his throne as the days of heaven.

Proverbs 30:4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son’s name, If you know?


So, when Jesus tells us: Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6 NKJV how were those who were born BC able to come to God via Jesus?

Hi Andyindauk.

There are many scriptures that point to Jesus being the Son of God. I will give you two of the hardest hitters:

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

Jesus was part and parcel of the creation of mankind. No Jesus = no mankind.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

This verse explains God the Son. One of the strongest supporting verses for the trinity.

How could those born BC get into Heaven?​

From day one, all God has wanted from mankind is repentance of sin. We see this when He first engaged with Cain and wanted Cain to simply repent.

Psalm 51:17 My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise.

In the OT, when those who had truthfully repented of their sin would die, they would go to 'Abrahams Bosom'. We need simply consider Jonah and Nineveh to understand that this place was not ring fenced for Jews only. Nineveh was a non Jewish city, whose inhabitants God wanted to save.

All of mankind have the ability to grasp good and evil and are hence able to repent of their sins or give in to them and not repent. Babies, children and mentally handicapped are a separate topic for discussion.

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

The only 'difference' in the NT is that now, when we repent truthfully of our sins, we meet Jesus. James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

The goal posts have 'not' moved or changed. The requirement to come to God has always been the same. Jesus preached one message ''repent of your sins'' Luke 5:32.

When Jesus died and rose, He took those in Abraham's bosom with Him to heaven. There are a number of scriptures to consider here. There are bible studies you can search on this forum for them.

Many of the Jews believed that you'll go to Heaven if you keep all of the commandments, the feasts and the rituals listed in the Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the Bible) but James tells us that that's a red herring. James 2:10.

How did the Old Testament Jews and believers get to Heaven?

It is important to understand why Jesus clashed with the Pharisees. Obeying the laws is a sign of having the right heart but it can happen that you are self righteous and your heart be far from God.

Matt 23:27-28 27 Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Matt 7:21-24 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

The verses above need to be contrasted with James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

What should jump out from reading these verses is the fact that helping orphans and widows are actions and works that will not 'go to our head'. IE It is evidence of our hearts being right.

So, when Jesus tells us: Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6 NKJV how were those who were born BC able to come to God via Jesus?

Two very important facts to consider on this.

1. A belief in Jesus being Lord is a belief that is given. A belief given by God and only after He has judged our hearts and minds Jer 17:9-12.

1 Cor 12:3 No one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says 'Let Jesus be cursed! ' and no one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit.
Matt 16:16-17 Who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

2. We would all be in Abraham's bosom, a ''nice'ish'' place in death outside God's presence, if Jesus never died.

 

[Butch5]

I can only find a handful of less than obvious verses in the Old Testament that mentions that God had a son?

Psalm 2:7-8 “I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.

Psalm 89:26-29 He shall cry to Me, ‘You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation.’ Also I will make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for him forever, And My covenant shall stand firm with him. His seed also I will make to endure forever, And his throne as the days of heaven.

Proverbs 30:4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son’s name, If you know?


So, when Jesus tells us: Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6 NKJV how were those who were born BC able to come to God via Jesus?

Many of the Jews believed that you'll go to Heaven if you keep all of the commandments, the feasts and the rituals listed in the Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the Bible) but James tells us that that's a red herring. James 2:10.

How did the Old Testament Jews and believers get to Heaven?

What makes you believe people go to Heaven?

 

[Andyindauk]

What makes you believe people go to Heaven?

Psalm 23:6
Matthew 5:12
Matthew 5:19
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 16:19
Matthew 19:14
Luke 10:20
Luke 23:43
2 Corinthians 5:11
Philippians 3:20
2 Timothy 4:18
Revelation 3:21

 

[Andyindauk]

Hi Andyindauk.

There are many scriptures that point to Jesus being the Son of God. I will give you two of the hardest hitters:

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

Jesus was part and parcel of the creation of mankind. No Jesus = no mankind.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

This verse explains God the Son. One of the strongest supporting verses for the trinity.



From day one, all God has wanted from mankind is repentance of sin. We see this when He first engaged with Cain and wanted Cain to simply repent.

Psalm 51:17 My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise.

In the OT, when those who had truthfully repented of their sin would die, they would go to 'Abrahams Bosom'. We need simply consider Jonah and Nineveh to understand that this place was not ring fenced for Jews only. Nineveh was a non Jewish city, whose inhabitants God wanted to save.

All of mankind have the ability to grasp good and evil and are hence able to repent of their sins or give in to them and not repent. Babies, children and mentally handicapped are a separate topic for discussion.

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

The only 'difference' in the NT is that now, when we repent truthfully of our sins, we meet Jesus. James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

The goal posts have 'not' moved or changed. The requirement to come to God has always been the same. Jesus preached one message ''repent of your sins'' Luke 5:32.

When Jesus died and rose, He took those in Abraham's bosom with Him to heaven. There are a number of scriptures to consider here. There are bible studies you can search on this forum for them.



It is important to understand why Jesus clashed with the Pharisees. Obeying the laws is a sign of having the right heart but it can happen that you are self righteous and your heart be far from God.

Matt 23:27-28 27 Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Matt 7:21-24 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

The verses above need to be contrasted with James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

What should jump out from reading these verses is the fact that helping orphans and widows are actions and works that will not 'go to our head'. IE It is evidence of our hearts being right.


Two very important facts to consider on this.

1. A belief in Jesus being Lord is a belief that is given. A belief given by God and only after He has judged our hearts and minds Jer 17:9-12.

1 Cor 12:3 No one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says 'Let Jesus be cursed! ' and no one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit.
Matt 16:16-17 Who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

2. We would all be in Abraham's bosom, a ''nice'ish'' place in death outside God's presence, if Jesus never died.

Hi King,

I know that there are many scriptures that point to Jesus being the son of God. The point I was making is that with a couple of exceptions, they're all in the New Testament.

The OP asks how did Old Testament believers get to Heaven? I tried to answer that question in # 23.

Here's somebody else's take on the question.

Did the Old Testament Believers Go Immediately to Heaven When They Died?

What happened to the Old Testament believers when they died? Did they go to heaven or some other place? When Christ ascended into heaven did He take the Old

www.blueletterbible.org

If you think about it, when giving a gift at Christmas, you don’t normally tell the lucky recipient what you've got them months in advance, do you? In the same way Jesus was God's Christmas present to the world. And wow!! What a present!

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 NIV

 

[Butch5]

Psalm 23:6
Matthew 5:12
Matthew 5:19
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 16:19
Matthew 19:14
Luke 10:20
Luke 23:43
2 Corinthians 5:11
Philippians 3:20
2 Timothy 4:18
Revelation 3:21

Which of these says that people go to Heaven?

 

[Butch5]

Psalm 23:6
Matthew 5:12
Matthew 5:19
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 16:19
Matthew 19:14
Luke 10:20
Luke 23:43
2 Corinthians 5:11
Philippians 3:20
2 Timothy 4:18
Revelation 3:21

When Jesus speaks of the Kindom of Heaven He is referring to this Kingdom in Daniel.

Daniel 2:44 (KJV 1900): And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

This is the Kindom of God or as Mathew puts it, the Kindom of Heaven. Notice, it's on earth.

 

[Waggles]

Psalm 23:6
Matthew 5:12
Matthew 5:19
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 16:19
Matthew 19:14
Luke 10:20
Luke 23:43
2 Corinthians 5:11
Philippians 3:20
2 Timothy 4:18
Revelation 3:21

None of those scriptures teach that when people die that they go to Heaven.
Both the OT and the NT teach of resurrection from the dead and judgement.
There is a first resurrection and there is a second resurrection.

 

[Waggles]

Matthew 22:23 The same day Sadducees came to him, who say that there is no resurrection, and they asked him a question,
22:28 In the resurrection, therefore, of the seven, whose wife will she be? For they all had her.”
22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
22:31 And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God:

Luke 20:35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage,
36 for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
37 But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.

Luke 14:13 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind,
14 and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.

John 5:28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgement.

John 11:23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
24 Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”

Acts 17:31 because [God] has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”
32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, “We will hear you again about this.”

Acts 23:6 Now when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, “Brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees. It is with respect to the hope and the resurrection of the dead
that I am on trial.”

1Cor 15:12 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
2 and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgement.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

 

[Andyindauk]

Hi Waggles & King,

This is going a bit off-topic but nevertheless interesting.

Someone who can explain this far better than I can -

What Happens When We Die? 4 Biblical Answers to Common Questions

What happens if I die before the Rapture? Does everyone go to heaven? What if I’m cremated? Can I lose my salvation? Dr. David Jeremiah offers answers from God’s Word.

davidjeremiah.blog

I don't see the point in God making the dead hang about in some sort of storage unit for thousands of years. Jesus's resurrection was a total victory over death; there's now no bar to prevent us being with Jesus at the right hand of God.

Yes, there's plenty more besides to look forward to, rapture, Jesus's 1000 year reign, Satan & cohorts chucked in a like of fire, Judgement, new Heaven & Earth and the wedding and eternal life with God.

 

[complete]

I can only find a handful of less than obvious verses in the Old Testament that mentions that God had a son?

Psalm 2:7-8 “I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.

Psalm 89:26-29 He shall cry to Me, ‘You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation.’ Also I will make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for him forever, And My covenant shall stand firm with him. His seed also I will make to endure forever, And his throne as the days of heaven.

Proverbs 30:4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son’s name, If you know?


So, when Jesus tells us: Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6 NKJV how were those who were born BC able to come to God via Jesus?

Many of the Jews believed that you'll go to Heaven if you keep all of the commandments, the feasts and the rituals listed in the Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the Bible) but James tells us that that's a red herring. James 2:10.

How did the Old Testament Jews and believers get to Heaven?

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon His shoulder:
and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,
The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end,
upon the throne of David, and upon His kingdom,
to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.
The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.'
(Isa 9:6-7)

Hello @Andyindauk,

Reading your OP, My mind goes to Romans 1:1-4 and 16-32, then on to 2:1-16. In the opening verses of Romans 1, Paul states that the good news of God which he preached was, 'of God', and was 'according to God's WORD', and 'concerning God's SON.' God's word has the Lord Jesus Christ as the subject of each book of the Old Testament, in type and shadow (Luke 34:44-45): and Job for example was in no doubt that His Kinsman-Redeemer, 'liveth', and that he would see Him one day, in the flesh and on the earth, which also shows that Job believed in the resurrection from the dead, for only by means of the resurrection would he see His Redeemer.

'For I know that my Redeemer liveth,
and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
And though after my skin worms destroy this body,
yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Whom I shall see for myself,
and mine eyes shall behold, and not another;
though my reins be consumed within me.'
(Job 19:25-27)

* Also, entrance into the Kingdom of God was the issue throughout the gospels, rather than going to heaven:-

'Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand:
repent ye, and believe the gospel.'
(Mark 1:14-15)

'Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor,
which also waited for the kingdom of God,
came, and went in boldly unto Pilate,
and craved the body of Jesus.'
(Mar 15:43)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

deleted

 

[Hekuran]

Hi Waggles & King,

This is going a bit off-topic but nevertheless interesting.

Someone who can explain this far better than I can -

What Happens When We Die? 4 Biblical Answers to Common Questions

What happens if I die before the Rapture? Does everyone go to heaven? What if I’m cremated? Can I lose my salvation? Dr. David Jeremiah offers answers from God’s Word.

davidjeremiah.blog

I don't see the point in God making the dead hang about in some sort of storage unit for thousands of years. Jesus's resurrection was a total victory over death; there's now no bar to prevent us being with Jesus at the right hand of God.

Yes, there's plenty more besides to look forward to, rapture, Jesus's 1000 year reign, Satan & cohorts chucked in a like of fire, Judgement, new Heaven & Earth and the wedding and eternal life with God.

The David Jeremiah article mentions the hope of our future in heaven several times. But this is not how the Bible writers speak of future hope. The New Testament writers speak of our hope of resurrection. We rise from the graves here on earth where God's reign is complete and we live in perfect harmony with each other, with God in his good creation. The damage and destruction of sin will be wiped away. Paul says it better than I could in Romans 8.

I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. ​

So both God's children and God's creation will be redeemed and released from the bondage of decay.

 

[Waggles]

I don't see the point in God making the dead hang about in some sort of storage unit for thousands of years. Jesus's resurrection was a total victory over death; there's now no bar to prevent us being with Jesus at the right hand of God.

Opinion and wishful thinking are not equivalent to the truth of scripture.
Learn from scripture.

As for the weblink to David Jeremiah - you need to read from better Bible students than this guy.
His webpage on this is full of errors and is in the end simply unscriptural.
"while their soul goes to be with the Lord in heaven" - that is not Biblical and has no truth in scripture.
Go back a couple of posts and read the scriptures I have given on the subject of the resurrection of the dead.

A soul is not a spirit but is yourself - a soul is a living person or animal that has both organic life and also the spirit of God within for life.
Scripture teaches that when a human person dies their bodies return back to the earthly elements, but the spirit of God returns to God.
This is how God knows of every single person throughout all of history, and can keep tabs on their works and actions for good or for evil.
No one goes to heaven but some of the dead who are deemed worthy by God shall rise up (the living will be transformed) to meet our God and Saviour in the air and come down to Jerusalem with Jesus and his angels.
Luke 17:37 And they said to him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.”

 

[Waggles]

SOUL - H5315 נפש nephesh
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
1b) living being
1c) living being (with life in the blood)
1d) the man himself, self, person or individual

 

[Butch5]

Hi Waggles & King,

This is going a bit off-topic but nevertheless interesting.

Someone who can explain this far better than I can -

What Happens When We Die? 4 Biblical Answers to Common Questions

What happens if I die before the Rapture? Does everyone go to heaven? What if I’m cremated? Can I lose my salvation? Dr. David Jeremiah offers answers from God’s Word.

davidjeremiah.blog

I don't see the point in God making the dead hang about in some sort of storage unit for thousands of years. Jesus's resurrection was a total victory over death; there's now no bar to prevent us being with Jesus at the right hand of God.

Yes, there's plenty more besides to look forward to, rapture, Jesus's 1000 year reign, Satan & cohorts chucked in a like of fire, Judgement, new Heaven & Earth and the wedding and eternal life with God.

Hi Andy, actually, it's not really off topic. You asked how do those in the OT get to Heaven. The answer is, they don't. No one does.

The problem with the article is that the author simply assumes that man continues to live on after death. This is known as Dualism, the idea that man consists of more than one part. That's not how the Bible portrays man. The Bible portrays man a single being.

The author speaks of our inheritance with Christ and says that's living eternally in Heaven. There is no such thing stated in Scripture. Christ's inheritance is not Heaven, it's Earth. It's the land promised to Abraham.

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. 6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. 7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ge 17:4–8.

The land was promised to Abraham and his seed. Paul explains this.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ga 3:15–16.

According to Paul, the Seed that God was speaking of when He speaking to Abraham, was Christ. Christ would inherit the land. God promised it to Him.

7 I will declare the decree:
The LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son;
This day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me,
And I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance,
And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron;
Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings:
Be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry,
And ye perish from the way,


The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ps 2:7–12.

Here God promised the heathen and the uttermost parts of the land, to Christ.

Where does Christ reign? Is it in Heaven or on Earth?

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Lk 1:31–33.

Where was David's throne? It was in Jerusalem, not Heaven. Christ will sit on David's throne in Jerusalem and reign over the house of Jacob.

There is no promise of Heaven. Jesus told the unbelieving Jews that they could not go where He was going. He then told His disciples that they could not go where He was going. He told them that He would return so that they could be with Him.

 

[Waggles]

Zechariah 14:4 On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley,
so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward.
Zechariah 14:9 And YHWH will be king over all the earth. On that day YHWH will be one and his name one.
10 The whole land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. But Jerusalem shall remain aloft on its site from the Gate of Benjamin to the place of the former gate, to the Corner Gate,
and from the Tower of Hananel to the king's winepresses.
11 And it shall be inhabited, for there shall never again be a decree of utter destruction. Jerusalem shall dwell in security.

Zechariah 14:16 Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, YHWH of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths.
17 And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them.

Zechariah 8:21 The inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, ‘Let us go at once to entreat the favour of YHWH and to seek YHWH of hosts; I myself am going.’
22 Many peoples and strong nations shall come to seek YHWH of hosts in Jerusalem and to entreat the favour of YHWH.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I don't see the point in God making the dead hang about in some sort of storage unit for thousands of years. Jesus's resurrection was a total victory over death; there's now no bar to prevent us being with Jesus at the right hand of God.

Then why are the saints crying out for justice in the fifth seal - and being told to wait patiently?