How Old Is the Universe? Same Age as the Earth; About 6,000 years

[GodB4Us]

@Waggles You are wrong about Genesis.
To think Adam and Eve stopped at 3 children is absurd. You also forget people lived a very long time back then and aged a lot slower so by definition Adam and Eve not only had a lot of children but Cain, Abel, and the rest would have children with and marry their siblings and cousins.
The human genetic line was so pure for so long. God didn't create unrelated groups of people for them to find and marry.
Genesis 1 and 2 are different?
Please elaborate how you came to this "epiphany".

@Waggles

Please note how the book of the generations of Adam begins without mentioning Cain or Abel. This is the beginning of Israel's family tree for that purpose of the godly lineage of Seth from Adam.

Genesis 5:1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Adam begat Seth when he was 800 years old but Adam had begat other sons & daughters before Seth and not just Cain & Abel. Do I need to point out there is no mention of the names of the daughters? So there were other sons.

Was Cain & Abel close to 800 years old when Abel had died? Most likely but we do know that when Adam was 800 yeas old, that was when Seth was born. Kind of hard to believe that Adam & Eve waited about 800 years before having more children. It was marked such because Seth was born to replace Abel as mentioned at the end of Genesis 4th chapter.

Genesis 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

Anyway, do discern this with the Lord, brother @Waggles because I know I cannot convince you of the truth I see in His words.

 

[MedicBravo]

@GodB4Us This person forgets or doesn't understand that no book can contain every second, every decision, every life of people mentioned in it.
Given just two people to start, Adam and Eve could easily have had a lot of children. On that, since both were created by God and near perfection it's likely Eve "bounced back" from each pregnancy a lot easier and faster than women after her.
Given God's commandment to "multiply" and their long age it is also likely elderly for them was probably 800-ish give or take. Their children would be likewise and it wasn't until after the Flood that god limited our years.
Given how pure and undamaged our early ancestors were then incest wouldn't be a problem for some time. I know studies were done and all but summarized in today you could marry your 2nd cousin and have children with almost zero chance of problems. Anything closer in relations would make a significant % increase.

 

[Waggles]

The entire supposition that the Earth is merely 6,000 years old along with the unscriptural doctrine that Adam was the first sole human being on the planet
arises out of reading into scripture notions that are not in scripture > that is adding to scripture the ideas and doctrines of men.
Further to the errors above young earth creationists also rely on evolution to explain how from first 2 persons and then later from a surviving 8 persons the whole racial diversities
of human beings has arisen in just 4,000 years.
Darwin and Dawkins would be impressed.

 

[Waggles]

Adam begat Seth when he was 800 years old but Adam had begat other sons & daughters before Seth and not just Cain & Abel.

That is not in scripture.

 

[MedicBravo]

@Waggles There are so many things "not in scripture" you'd get a migraine so bad it would kill you.
That's a flawed way of thinking.
Did Jesus ONLY eat/drink at that one wedding and the last supper? No.
It never mentions Jesus' training as a laborer/carpenter in detail. Pretty sure he got paid.
It never mentions any of the Disciples wives lives in detail or their kids but we know they had families.
It never calls the fruit an apple but considering it is a known fruit to 99.99% of the world.
Given that Adam and Eve were created by God Himself then they didn't have belly buttons. You ONLY get that when you are born from a woman b/c of how we reproduce.
There are countless things one can infer without it being spelled out in crayon. You need to learn critical thinking and how to pull info in different ways with little or no evidence. Police do it all the time.

 

[MedicBravo]

The entire supposition that the Earth is merely 6,000 years old along with the unscriptural doctrine that Adam was the first sole human being on the planet
arises out of reading into scripture notions that are not in scripture > that is adding to scripture the ideas and doctrines of men.
Further to the errors above young earth creationists also rely on evolution to explain how from first 2 persons and then later from a surviving 8 persons the whole racial diversities
of human beings has arisen in just 4,000 years.
Darwin and Dawkins would be impressed.

Both have been proven wrong and yet their misinformation is still taught in schools.
There is nothing to accurately date anything "millions of years old". They found "dinosaur" bones and other "evidence" that was still "wet".
Bones do not last for millions of years. At some point they will have lost all moisture and fall apart resulting in dust and eventually nothing. Wet material like skin, flesh, organs, etc. would not last "millions of years".
Explain how life comes from non-life. Rocks = living things to us. We'll wait. You can't do it.
Explain how there was nothing. No Time, Space, or Matter yet "something happened to nothing when nothing can happen to nothing b/c something happened b/c of nothing."
Explain how our home is in just the right spot yet after "billions and millions" of years we just happened to end up in the only spot right for human life.
There is far more evidence for a Young than an Old Earth.

 

[GodB4Us]

@GodB4Us This person forgets or doesn't understand that no book can contain every second, every decision, every life of people mentioned in it.
Given just two people to start, Adam and Eve could easily have had a lot of children. On that, since both were created by God and near perfection it's likely Eve "bounced back" from each pregnancy a lot easier and faster than women after her.
Given God's commandment to "multiply" and their long age it is also likely elderly for them was probably 800-ish give or take. Their children would be likewise and it wasn't until after the Flood that god limited our years.
Given how pure and undamaged our early ancestors were then incest wouldn't be a problem for some time. I know studies were done and all but summarized in today you could marry your 2nd cousin and have children with almost zero chance of problems. Anything closer in relations would make a significant % increase.

Actually, it was when the sons of God, the lineage of Seth, that went into the lineage not of Seth for marriage but still in truth, family was when God started cutting back the years of the godly lineage to 120.

Genesis 6:1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

But yes, after the flood, the godly lineage started decreasing in length of years as evidenced below.

Genesis 11:10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:
11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
12 And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah:
13 And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
14 And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber:
15 And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
16 And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg:
17 And Eber lived after he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters.
18 And Peleg lived thirty years, and begat Reu:
19 And Peleg lived after he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters.
20 And Reu lived two and thirty years, and begat Serug:
21 And Reu lived after he begat Serug two hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.
22 And Serug lived thirty years, and begat Nahor:
23 And Serug lived after he begat Nahor two hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
24 And Nahor lived nine and twenty years, and begat Terah:
25 And Nahor lived after he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters.
26 And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
27 Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.
28 And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.
29 And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.

Seems the pattern of begatting children is between the ages of 29 & 35. Hmmm... makes me wonder that is when a couples should consider having children once they have settled in and established a living? But I digress....

 

[GodB4Us]

That is not in scripture.

Look at how the generations of Noah unfolded for why the family tree of Israel was referenced.

Genesis 11:10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:
11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
12 And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah:
13 And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
14 And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber:
15 And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
16 And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg:
17 And Eber lived after he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters.
18 And Peleg lived thirty years, and begat Reu:
19 And Peleg lived after he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters.
20 And Reu lived two and thirty years, and begat Serug:
21 And Reu lived after he begat Serug two hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.
22 And Serug lived thirty years, and begat Nahor:
23 And Serug lived after he begat Nahor two hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
24 And Nahor lived nine and twenty years, and begat Terah:
25 And Nahor lived after he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters.
26 And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
27 Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.
28 And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.
29 And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.

Just because the specific member of the family tree is mentioned in leading up to the nation of Israel, this does not mean that no one was born before or after them. Now see how the children of Adam was referenced.

Genesis 5:1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

No mentioned of Cain & Abel but we know they were born before Seth, right?

So this is where I get that truth from, thanks to the Lord.

 

[Waggles]

OK if you lot want to believe that the Earth is only 6,000 years old then go for it.

But in the end you add to scripture and create your own narrative that is not what God teaches us.
Cain did not marry his sister and scripture does not teach that any sisters were born before Seth.
I believe scripture unlike young earth creationists.

 

[MedicBravo]

@GodB4Us
The problem with anyone looking into the past, is that the time and culture back then doesn't exist anymore. Trying to put modernism on something that doesn't exist won't work.
Given our earliest ancestors were far smarter than us given what did and didn't exist is one thing. Them living roughly 800 years would mean that a person at those ages were roughly still "children".
They had plenty of time to have children. Were there twins, triplets, etc.? Of course and without the complications early on.
I largely mindlessly gobbled the same public "education" garbage until I learned then to think for myself. I saw so many flaws in what they were teaching and how teachers would get "upset" when we weren't good little robots.
6000 years doesn't seem that long. People have been saying 6000 for so long then likely it's more 6000+ to 8000-ish, maybe.
There are many who've made videos and have done lectures with plenty of evidence on a Young Earth.

 

[TheLivingStone]

OK if you lot want to believe that the Earth is only 6,000 years old then go for it.

But in the end you add to scripture and create your own narrative that is not what God teaches us.
Cain did not marry his sister and scripture does not teach that any sisters were born before Seth.
I believe scripture unlike young earth creationists.

How old do you think it is? A billion trillion years old like they tell us at nasa?

 

[TheLivingStone]

The Bible doesn't either.

Isaiah 40:21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Just because the Catholic Church mistaken these verses as inferring the earth was flat when in actuality, it was a metaphor for referencing a whole map of the world or a flat global map if you will

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Revelation 7:1And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

That's not true it doesn't mean map at all.

The KJV translates Strong's H5251 in the following manner: standard (7x), ensign (6x), pole (2x), banner (2x), sail (2x), sign (1x).

נֵס nêç, nace; from H5264; a flag; also a sail; by implication, a flagstaff; generally a signal; figuratively, a token:—banner, pole, sail, (en-) sign, standard.

It's also used in Isaiah 11:10

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign (H5251) of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

You seriously interpret that to mean map?

And you guys really believe the nasa model of the earth? A flying spinning ball speeding through space rotating 666mph or whatever.
I can't get my head around fellow believers who think this.

 

[MedicBravo]

Waggles said:
OK if you lot want to believe that the Earth is only 6,000 years old then go for it.

But in the end you add to scripture and create your own narrative that is not what God teaches us.
Cain did not marry his sister and scripture does not teach that any sisters were born before Seth.
I believe scripture unlike young earth creationists.

Scripture does teach a Young Earth.
Who said Cain married his sister? It's not said specifically but many have learned to infer information. You should learn it but what you post here is inaccurate. You're putting modernism on a time, culture, and people who lived a LOT longer than us.

• Don't make the false statement we're "adding to scripture". God gave us the intelligence to "fill in the gaps" with the best possible guess from what is and isn't said.
• God only created Adam and Eve. He did not create other humans but commanded Adam and Eve to fill the Earth with more people.
• Given 800+ years and the fact they ages much slower then they could easily have a lot of children who could grow up and repeat the process. As God is the smartest guy, then twins, triplets, and so forth would be in the mix.
• "I believe scripture unlike young earth creationists." - What you believe is not scripture. From Hebrew to Greek to English (at least) there are no mistranslations. You can easily find a word for word, Greek to English and Hebrew to English translations of the Bible.
• God doesn't stutter.

 

[MedicBravo]

How old do you think it is? A billion trillion years old like they tell us at nasa?

Sadly, too many aren't on a high level when thinking for themselves and critical thinking. NASA has lied to us many times.

 

[TheLivingStone]

Sadly, too many aren't on a high level when thinking for themselves and critical thinking. NASA has lied to us many times.

That's all they do at nasa. Their job is to deceive, to point people in the opposite direction of the truth.

 

[GodB4Us]

@GodB4Us
The problem with anyone looking into the past, is that the time and culture back then doesn't exist anymore. Trying to put modernism on something that doesn't exist won't work.
Given our earliest ancestors were far smarter than us given what did and didn't exist is one thing. Them living roughly 800 years would mean that a person at those ages were roughly still "children".
They had plenty of time to have children. Were there twins, triplets, etc.? Of course and without the complications early on.
I largely mindlessly gobbled the same public "education" garbage until I learned then to think for myself. I saw so many flaws in what they were teaching and how teachers would get "upset" when we weren't good little robots.
6000 years doesn't seem that long. People have been saying 6000 for so long then likely it's more 6000+ to 8000-ish, maybe.
There are many who've made videos and have done lectures with plenty of evidence on a Young Earth.

I would believe the genealogy would be telling enough, right?

From Adam to Abraham at this link; Chronology Chart from Adam to Abraham

 

[GodB4Us]

That's not true it doesn't mean map at all.

The KJV translates Strong's H5251 in the following manner: standard (7x), ensign (6x), pole (2x), banner (2x), sail (2x), sign (1x).

נֵס nêç, nace; from H5264; a flag; also a sail; by implication, a flagstaff; generally a signal; figuratively, a token:—banner, pole, sail, (en-) sign, standard.

It's also used in Isaiah 11:10

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign (H5251) of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

You seriously interpret that to mean map?

And you guys really believe the nasa model of the earth? A flying spinning ball speeding through space rotating 666mph or whatever.
I can't get my head around fellow believers who think this.

Due to the reference of the four corners, yeah, which I believe was metaphorical. Even the example you are giving is figuratively, so why not? Even if there is a loss in translating to English, figuratively or metaphorically, it is the same thing.

 

[GodB4Us]

Waggles said:
OK if you lot want to believe that the Earth is only 6,000 years old then go for it.

But in the end you add to scripture and create your own narrative that is not what God teaches us.

I believe I was inferring that Cain married a relative below be it a sister, niece, or cousin .. etc.

Cain did not marry his sister and scripture does not teach that any sisters were born before Seth.

But let us look at how scripture sometimes address an issue or topic.

Genesis 5:1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

So where is the mention of Cain & Abel? See how it mentioned that Adam had begat sons and daughters as well? So just because it mentioned Seth, it did not mean Cain & Abel were not born before Seth as other parts of scripture had earlier testified. And so the phrase "and he begat sons and daughters" has to be taken in light of that fact that it cannot mean no sons and daughter had existed outside of Cain & Abel or before Seth when obviously, Cain had found a wife.

I believe scripture unlike young earth creationists.
Scripture does teach a Young Earth.
Who said Cain married his sister? It's not said specifically but many have learned to infer information. You should learn it but what you post here is inaccurate. You're putting modernism on a time, culture, and people who lived a LOT longer than us.

Do we know what kind of relative? No. But then again, it can very well be a sister. We do not know for sure, but it was a relative.

• Don't make the false statement we're "adding to scripture". God gave us the intelligence to "fill in the gaps" with the best possible guess from what is and isn't said.
• God only created Adam and Eve. He did not create other humans but commanded Adam and Eve to fill the Earth with more people.
• Given 800+ years and the fact they ages much slower then they could easily have a lot of children who could grow up and repeat the process. As God is the smartest guy, then twins, triplets, and so forth would be in the mix.
• "I believe scripture unlike young earth creationists." - What you believe is not scripture. From Hebrew to Greek to English (at least) there are no mistranslations. You can easily find a word for word, Greek to English and Hebrew to English translations of the Bible.
• God doesn't stutter.

God doesn't stutter but we do need His wisdom to see the truth in His words.

 

[MedicBravo]

I would believe the genealogy would be telling enough, right?

From Adam to Abraham at this link; Chronology Chart from Adam to Abraham

If people have been arguing it is 6000 for a long time then it isn't.
6000+. It's not about year accuracy so much as it is God did things fairly quickly and if we could comprehend 6000 years minimum back then it's not that long compared to 500,000 years.

 

[MedicBravo]

@GodB4Us
The whole point of it, is that no book can contain every single instance of the beginning until now.
Cain, Abel, and Seth were more important. The first kids, the older killed the younger, and had to run and then God gave them Seth. Not to replace but to help heal the loss.
Many assume they only had three children but where did the rest come from? Adam and Eve were the only two created humans and there is no contradicting info. To think they stopped at 3 and NEVER had sex again is also wrong.
Every single sin isn't listed but common sense you can infer many, many more and all fall under 7 groups.
It doesn't say Jesus showered but common sense. He had the same needs as every human.
People can't put modernism on those people and time. It simply does not work.
Call it "Inherent Scripture" if you will b/c what is not said is still relevant.