If the church is “Raptured” in this generation, what are the people left still, in the “Institutionalized church”, called?

[Bill]

Although we cannot earn or work for our salvation it is true that there are rewards to be had.

There are 5 heavenly crowns any believer can receive in heaven, they are each clearly quoted in scripture for us.

Blessings

But what you are talking about skirts the issue . And that issue is , you can not finish the race without action . And in this case , the action is to love

 

[Bill]

Although we cannot earn or work for our salvation it is true that there are rewards to be had.

There are 5 heavenly crowns any believer can receive in heaven, they are each clearly quoted in scripture for us.

Blessings

It is not an issue of earning anything . But to fulfill who you are as a Christian .

To be a Christian is to fan into a flame the Virtues given to you by the Holy Spirit . These things all require action . Love , compassion , etc . Are all action words . Even if you sit still and Love . You are in motion.

But without love , there is nothing , and the Salvation you so despertly sought , without recieving Jesus , who is Love , Who is God , Who is our Salvation without you will be lost .

 

[PloughBoy]

What kind of love are you talking about Bill? Many people have no idea what kind of love is describe in the Bible. The love people talk about in the world is not the same love of God describe in the Bible, it is like the difference between "night and day". God's love and the love He wants us to share with people produce hate in most people. And they are blinded by God to not know the difference, because it is. His will for them to be deceive. "His ways are not like our ways, His thoughts are no like our thoughts" lean not upon thy own understanding"

 

[PloughBoy]

One thing for sure I have never met a person who was "Christ-like"! Jesus never lied, Jesus always done and spoke what His Father wanted him to do and say. If the word "Christian means Christ-like" I never met one. But I have met a whole lot of sinners who claim they are "Christ-like". Jesus always deny himself. I have not met one yet in over 40 years.

 

[Sue D.]

Greeting Sue

It could be the Messianic Jews, we can't be certain, scripture doesn't tell us clearly enough, but they should be considered I believe.




But we are not Jews Sue, and at present the Jews have the same thoughts about Messianic Jews as they do Christian's.




That is because that is what we are taught, and we are pointed to the scripture that says this.

But in the early church years including RCC years, there was a hate, that the Jews had 'killed' Jesus, although some had all were labelled as Jesus killers.




It sure is good that God is in control Sue.

Bless you

Isn't that actually referring to when believers were first called Christians at Antioch -- which isn't actually correct, either? Acts 11:26

But look at Acts 11: 18 but there's another passage Acts 13 45 - 48 which is a better explanation. The Jews rejected and ,... behold, we turn to the Gentiles."

 

[Brother-Paul]

Isn't that actually referring to when believers were first called Christians at Antioch -- which isn't actually correct, either? Acts 11:26

But look at Acts 11: 18 but there's another passage Acts 13 45 - 48 which is a better explanation. The Jews rejected and ,... behold, we turn to the Gentiles."

You are right when you say believers in Christ were first called Christians at Antioch, the reason this verse is so used is because it says it as it is.

Acts 11:26 (NKJV)
And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people.
And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

You are also correct by quoting the following which comes a few verses sooner.

Acts 11:18 (NKJV)
When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

Peter’s argument came over convincing, the Jews criticism reduced to silence, the audience then expressed their praise to God that he had granted to the Gentiles as well as the Jews the opportunity of repenting of their sins and thus of obtaining eternal life Acts 5:20, Acts 13:46 and Acts 13:48. The opportunity was given for preaching of the gospel. As a Jew they were hearing claims that were against their beliefs and on top of that they heard these claims that the Gentiles were to obtain salvation also, salvation is to the Jews, how dare they say such things.

Peter’s implicitly claimed that Gentiles were full members of the church, and therefore that circumcision and keeping of the law were unnecessary for salvation; it also contained the wider implication that the Jewish distinction between clean and unclean foods and people was obsolete. This is what set fire to the conflict the ideas put forward were earth-shattering to them. It is not hard to see how they got so upset, but let us not forget, there was a small number of Jews here.

In Antioch we see things taken further by Paul and Barnabas, Peter had stirred the Jews to anger in Jerusalem, the Jews knew this new faith was growing, they saw it as a conflict of their beliefs, they saw it as a threat to their religion, how dare they say such things.

Acts 13:44-52 (NKJV)
44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so the Lord has commanded us: 'I have set you as a light to the Gentiles, That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.' "
48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
49 And the word of the Lord was being spread throughout all the region.
50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and prominent women and the chief men of the city, raised up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them from their region.
51 But they shook off the dust from their feet against them, and came to Iconium.
52 And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.

One could say that the things said by Peter, Paul and Barnabas, rubbed salt into the wounds of the Jews, definitely causing friction and upset, why did they not teach Christ crucified and the Gospel in love? Some would definitely say you don't bring people to Christ like this, this is not witnessing. But then we have to remember I think, the Jews were stubborn people, and rightfully stuck to their beliefs, after all they had been chosen, they were blessed when they followed God, they had been punished when they didn't follow God's commands, He did bring them out of Egypt. The important part I pick up here is that Peter, Paul and Barnabas were led by the Holy Spirit, when the spirit leads, boldness often follows.

The question I ask myself at times is, if I was born a Jew, is I had been brought up and taught from a Jewish family and been to the Jewish school of teaching to know God's Word (OT), then how would I react?

God never pushes himself on any of us, we have to open our heart to let Him in, Jew or Gentile.

Bless you.

 

[Brother-Paul]

What kind of love are you talking about Bill? Many people have no idea what kind of love is describe in the Bible. The love people talk about in the world is not the same love of God describe in the Bible, it is like the difference between "night and day". God's love and the love He wants us to share with people produce hate in most people. And they are blinded by God to not know the difference, because it is. His will for them to be deceive. "His ways are not like our ways, His thoughts are no like our thoughts" lean not upon thy own understanding"

God is Love, not as the world uses the world love, one word love fits all!

God's Love is agape Love, it is Divine Love.

God's Love is hesed Love, it is Steadfast Love.

That is God's love in a nutshell

Bless you brother

 

[Brother-Paul]

One thing for sure I have never met a person who was "Christ-like"! Jesus never lied, Jesus always done and spoke what His Father wanted him to do and say. If the word "Christian means Christ-like" I never met one. But I have met a whole lot of sinners who claim they are "Christ-like". Jesus always deny himself. I have not met one yet in over 40 years.

Greeting brother

I agree with so much you say here my friend.

Although I believe...

Lost souls are sinner(s), they are weighed down by their sin(s) [plural]

Saved souls are not sinner(s) although they may sin

Saved souls have had all past SIN(S) washed away, we may sin we repent and are forgiven.

Saved souls are to Practice Righteousness, the more we practice righteousness the less we sin [singular]

There are a lot of sinner(s) who claim to be Christ like (They are not saved, often just church goers)

There are lots who sin who claim to be Christ like (They are saved souls with all past sin(s) washed away, all saved souls will sin)

No one on this earth can ever be Christ Like, but we are to try daily and repent when we fail.

Bless you brother

 

[Sue D.]

One thing for sure I have never met a person who was "Christ-like"! Jesus never lied, Jesus always done and spoke what His Father wanted him to do and say. If the word "Christian means Christ-like" I never met one. But I have met a whole lot of sinners who claim they are "Christ-like". Jesus always deny himself. I have not met one yet in over 40 years.

A born again person has the Holy Spirit indwelling them -- there Will be a desire To please God. We Are to be Growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

If you've never met one -- then may I suggest that you might adjust where ever it is that you frequently go.

If you're expecting sinless perfection in all believers , you're going to be disappointed. And if a person Expects to find sinfulness in everyone -- it can be found. The cup 'half Empty or half Full' Perspective.

 

[Sue D.]

What kind of love are you talking about Bill? Many people have no idea what kind of love is describe in the Bible. The love people talk about in the world is not the same love of God describe in the Bible, it is like the difference between "night and day". God's love and the love He wants us to share with people produce hate in most people. And they are blinded by God to not know the difference, because it is. His will for them to be deceive. "His ways are not like our ways, His thoughts are no like our thoughts" lean not upon thy own understanding"

There are several different kinds of 'love' talked about in God's Word -- that's how we know that there is more than just one. The Song of Solomon -- talking about married love. Jesus Christ willingness to die on the cross for us -- for God so Loved the world that He gave. is Another kind of love. And though it might not be specified in God's Word -- there is the 'I Love ice cream' or I Love my dog / cat. One of those is called 'agape' love and I another one might be 'eros' and I can't think of the others.

And sometimes -- as human beings -- it's easy to confuse love with lust. or 'chemistry' with love. And 'chemistry' between people Does make life 'sweeter'. Sometimes 'chemistry' can be Negative between people and those people would need to stay away from each other. It's the positive 'chemistry' that God created that helps men and women to want to be together in a positive way to have children together / family / producing the Next generation.

 

[Brother-Paul]

There are several different kinds of 'love' talked about in God's Word

And sometimes -- as human beings -- it's easy to confuse love with lust. or 'chemistry' with love. And 'chemistry' between people Does make life 'sweeter'. Sometimes 'chemistry' can be Negative between people and those people would need to stay away from each other. It's the positive 'chemistry' that God created that helps men and women to want to be together in a positive way to have children together / family / producing the Next generation.

God is Love, not as the world uses the world love, one word love fits all!

God's Love is 'agape' Love, it is Divine Love.

God's Love is hesed Love, it is Steadfast Love.

 

[Sue D.]

Then what about the love described / talked about in the Song of Solomon -- it's as inspired as the rest of God's Word. It is married love.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Then what about the love described / talked about in the Song of Solomon -- it's as inspired as the rest of God's Word. It is married love.

The Song of Songs or Song of Solomon, are love songs for sure, allow me to look at the first 6 verses in Chapter 1 for discussion.

Song of Songs 1:1-6 (NKJV)
1 The song of songs, which is Solomon's.
2 THE SHULAMITE Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth-- For your love is better than wine.
3 Because of the fragrance of your good ointments, Your name is ointment poured forth; Therefore the virgins love you.
4 Draw me away! THE DAUGHTERS OF JERUSALEM We will run after you. THE SHULAMITE The king has brought me into his chambers. THE DAUGHTERS OF JERUSALEM We will be glad and rejoice in you. We will remember your love more than wine. THE SHULAMITE Rightly do they love you.
5 I am dark, but lovely, O daughters of Jerusalem, Like the tents of Kedar, Like the curtains of Solomon.
6 Do not look upon me, because I am dark, Because the sun has tanned me. My mother's sons were angry with me; They made me the keeper of the vineyards, But my own vineyard I have not kept.

In this first couple of chapters, we see the love-play between a young man and woman, are they married or anticipating marriage, we do not know, it would appear they are happy and excited anticipating wedlock. Their love is one for another, in this section there are 4 words 'Love'

Below is the transalation for the word love in verse 2

Hebrew Strong's Number: 2896
Hebrew Word: ‏טוֹב‎
Phonetic Pronunciation: tobe I love this Hebrew translation 'to be'
Root: from <H2895>
Vine's Words: Do Good (to), Good

English Words used in KJV:
good 361
better 72
well 20
goodness 16
goodly 9
best 8
merry 7
fair 7
prosperity 6
precious 4
fine 3
wealth 3
beautiful 2
fairer 2
favour 2
glad 2
miscellaneous translations 35
[Total Count: 559]

from<H2895> (towb); good (as an adjective) in the widest sense; used likewise as a noun, both in the masculine and the feminine, the singular and the plural (good, a good or good thing, a good man or woman; the good, goods or good things, good men or women), also as an adverb (well) :- beautiful, best, better, bountiful, cheerful, at ease, × fair (word), (be in) favour, fine, glad, good (deed, -lier, -liest, -ly, -ness, -s), graciously, joyful, kindly, kindness, liketh (best), loving, merry, × most, pleasant, + pleaseth, pleasure, precious, prosperity, ready, sweet, wealth, welfare, (be) well ([-favoured]).

Below is the translation for the word 'love' in verse 3 & the end of verse 4 - a different type of love

Hebrew Strong's Number: 157
Hebrew Word: ‏אָהַב‎
Transliteration: ʾāhab
Phonetic Pronunciation: aw-hab'
Hebrew Word: ‏אַהֵב‎
Transliteration: ʾâhêb
Phonetic Pronunciation: aw-habe'

Vine's Words: Love (To)

English Words used in KJV:
love 169
lover(s) 19
friend(s) 12
beloved 5
liketh 1
lovely 1
loving 1
[Total Count: 208]

or 'aheb, aw-habe'; a primitive root; to have affection for (sexually or otherwise) :- (be-) love (-d, -ly, -r), like, friend.

Below is the translation for the word 'love' in verse 4 - a different type of love

Hebrew Strong's Number: 1730
Hebrew Word: ‏דּוֹד‎
Transliteration: dôd
Phonetic Pronunciation: dode
Hebrew Word: ‏דֹּד‎
Transliteration: dôd
Phonetic Pronunciation: dode
Root: from an unused root meaning properly, to boil

Vine's Words: None

English Words used in KJV:
beloved 34
uncle 16
love(s) 8
father's brother 2
wellbeloved 1
[Total Count: 61]

or (shortened) dod, dode; from an unused root meaning properly to boil, i.e. (figurative) to love; by implication a love-token, lover, friend; specifically an uncle :- (well-) beloved, father's brother, love, uncle.

Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

4 words love in this small section, 3 different types of love translated.


Other examples... 5 Hebrew Greek words for LOVE

Love - word AHAB - Abraham loved his son Isaac

Love - word AGAPAO - God’s love - Greek word agapao, meaning unconditional love, preferential love

Love - word PHILEO - signifing friendship, fondness, affection, delight, and personal attachment. This word is on of feeling – a heart of love

Love - word PHILADELPHIA - this word refers to loving someone like a brother or sister

Love - word AGAPE - this is Divine love, God's love, God's love for people, for humanity for Christ

God's love is not man's love, it is bigger, it is higher, there is no other love like it. It is Divine Love.

Because Love and marriage go together (like a horse and carriage), so God's love for mankind is shown through Christ and his church as the bride loves her awaited groom and Christ the groom loves His Blessed Church whom He calls His bride.

Blessings

 

[Sue D.]

I don't see what there is to discuss. You're agreeing with what I was saying previously. PloughBoy was trying to say #503 that there is only one kind of love. And you're saying in #511 that one kind of love fits all. I'm simply suggesting that 'one size of love does Not fit all'.

God's love Is different -- but it's not the only kind Of love. God's love for us / mankind is Not erotic love. And a husband / wife love for each other is not the same as our love for God. And, yes, Christian marriage Is supposed to be showing Christ's love for His church. But our love for our spouse is shown in a unique way. To be fulfilled Only in the marriage relationship.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I don't see what there is to discuss. You're agreeing with what I was saying previously. PloughBoy was trying to say #503 that there is only one kind of love. And you're saying in #511 that one kind of love fits all. I'm simply suggesting that 'one size of love does Not fit all'

Sorry Sue. What I put was...

God is Love, not as the world uses the world love, one word love fits all!

It was meant as...
God is love. Not as the world uses the word love, where one word fits all.

The Bible has many words for love in the Greek and Hebrew.

Look at example from Song of Solomon #513

Shalom

 

[PloughBoy]

There are several different kinds of 'love' talked about in God's Word -- that's how we know that there is more than just one. The Song of Solomon -- talking about married love. Jesus Christ willingness to die on the cross for us -- for God so Loved the world that He gave. is Another kind of love. And though it might not be specified in God's Word -- there is the 'I Love ice cream' or I Love my dog / cat. One of those is called 'agape' love and I another one might be 'eros' and I can't think of the others.

And sometimes -- as human beings -- it's easy to confuse love with lust. or 'chemistry' with love. And 'chemistry' between people Does make life 'sweeter'. Sometimes 'chemistry' can be Negative between people and those people would need to stay away from each other. It's the positive 'chemistry' that God created that helps men and women to want to be together in a positive way to have children together / family / producing the Next generation.

Which wife is "Solomon" reffering to in "Song of Songs" he had over 300 wives plus all of his "concubines". And in the end he did not please his God but worship the gods of his wives. " He loved alright," and David too! Sinners always got a excuse for sinning. Bottom line! Christians, either quit calling yourselves "Christ-like" or quit sinning! Sinners always want to make God's word non-effected. Claiming to be Children of God, but denying the power to walk in His WORD! Christians always state: pray to our Father for healing, for sickness, for miracles, for houses and lands, for what church to go to, for a house, a husband or wife or my son or daughter. But when it comes to ask God in prayer for them to live a Holy and sanctified life and a life of self denial, to deny ones self. This practice seems somehow to elude them in prayer and practice and speech [conversation].
New International Version
Then he said to them all: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. (Luke 9:23).

25Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them, 26“If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. 27“Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. (Luke 14:25-27).NASB.

 

[Brother-Paul]

"Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. (Luke 9:23).

Amen brother

 

[Sue D.]

Which wife is "Solomon" reffering to in "Song of Songs" he had over 300 wives plus all of his "concubines". And in the end he did not please his God but worship the gods of his wives. " He loved alright," and David too! Sinners always got a excuse for sinning. Bottom line! Christians, either quit calling yourselves "Christ-like" or quit sinning! Sinners always want to make God's word non-effected. Claiming to be Children of God, but denying the power to walk in His WORD! Christians always state: pray to our Father for healing, for sickness, for miracles, for houses and lands, for what church to go to, for a house, a husband or wife or my son or daughter. But when it comes to ask God in prayer for them to live a Holy and sanctified life and a life of self denial, to deny ones self. This practice seems somehow to elude them in prayer and practice and speech [conversation].
New International Version
Then he said to them all: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. (Luke 9:23).

25Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them, 26“If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. 27“Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. (Luke 14:25-27).NASB.

In the end -- Solomons downfall was following One of his wife's gods instead of God.

Solomon was made king at a very young age -- 16 or so -- he was very humble -- he asked God for Wisdom to lead the people. God gave him both wisdom and Wealth.

And King David -- a man after God's own heart. He sinned , yes, a lot of it and then he was approached by the prophet Nathan and then he repented. The son that David and Bathsheba had together Died. And God was still using him in a good, positive way.

I think you're out of line with your comments concerning both those men of God.

Even born again men and women sin while here on earth. Are you suggesting that you Don't?

And How Exactly Do you know how any one prays --unless you hear them praying out loud all the time. Because they aren't living the life You feel they should be living.

 

[Bill]

What kind of love are you talking about Bill? Many people have no idea what kind of love is describe in the Bible. The love people talk about in the world is not the same love of God describe in the Bible, it is like the difference between "night and day". God's love and the love He wants us to share with people produce hate in most people. And they are blinded by God to not know the difference, because it is. His will for them to be deceive. "His ways are not like our ways, His thoughts are no like our thoughts" lean not upon thy own understanding"

Abba Father type of love . Falling in love with God love . Love your neighbor as yourself love

 

[PloughBoy]

Abba Father type of love . Falling in love with God love . Love your neighbor as yourself love

And who is thy neighbor? What says the Lord, concerning this matter?

27He answered, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ c ; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ d ”

28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.33But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35The next day he took out two denarii e and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”