If you deny Christ or lose your faith, is that it?

littlesheep · Oct 29, 2012

I'd be grateful for people's thoughts on what someone's situation is if they have lost their faith and denied that Jesus is the Son of God? Does that mean there's no going back?

amadeus2 · Oct 29, 2012

lilyofthevalley said:
I'd be grateful for people's thoughts on what someone's situation is if they have lost their faith and denied that Jesus is the Son of God? Does that mean there's no going back?

Only a reprobate cannot turn back. If you were that, I doubt that you would here on a Christian forum asking such a question. This doesn't mean that you are home free. It means rather, IMHO, that there is room for repentance. Communication between you and God is necessary. I am praying for you.

Brad Huber · Oct 29, 2012

Peter denied Christ 3 times, but he was restored and so much more. If your repentance is true, falling away can lead us back eventually to the Lord in the same way the wayword son returned to his father when his senses came to him.

stephen · Oct 29, 2012

lilyofthevalley said:
I'd be grateful for people's thoughts on what someone's situation is if they have lost their faith and denied that Jesus is the Son of God? Does that mean there's no going back?

Surely not!

The Salvation of the bible.......the Salvation that Jesus offers is complete. None of us can add anything to it, or take anything from it. Jesus is aware that we are, that humanity is frail and weak....that is the reason He did an infallable and complete work of salvation for us on the cross.

We are not trying to achieve it. It has been "finished" Completed.

We have trust Him every day. Lifting our hearts to Him, even as we go about our daily business.

We ask Him to forgive us. He forgives.

littlesheep · Nov 4, 2012

Thanks for your replies. I'm still rather confused - in some places in the bible it seems clear that once you apostasise then there's no going back, and in other places it seems like you can.

Brad Huber · Nov 4, 2012

^Thats because God cannot be put into any box, that He would always do something a certain way in every situation. He is ALIVE and beyond wise in every way possible, all knowing and able to know the future of His decisions and our decisions. He can treat people differently and still be "fair" because He see's our heart, and knows what we will do with our repentence.

littlesheep · Nov 6, 2012

Brad Huber said:
^Thats because God cannot be put into any box, that He would always do something a certain way in every situation. He is ALIVE and beyond wise in every way possible, all knowing and able to know the future of His decisions and our decisions. He can treat people differently and still be "fair" because He see's our heart, and knows what we will do with our repentence.

I understand what you are saying about not being able to put God in a box, but I thought that He would not break his own laws and his word. I also thought that the bible was there so that we had written guidelines so that if we were not sure about things we had something to learn from about what's God will is and we could therefore know for definite on certain issues.

I have been confused over what the bible does actually say on the issue of losing faith. Also, to pray and try to listen to God's voice has never worked particularly well for me. It seems very hit and miss, open to misinterpretation and vague and lacks security. It seems like a serious issue, so I don't understand why there isn't some kind of definite assurance on the matter so that a person can be at peace knowing that they can come back and will be fully accepted without having lingering or agonising doubts over their salvation.

DutchChristian · Nov 7, 2012

lilyofthevalley said:
I'd be grateful for people's thoughts on what someone's situation is if they have lost their faith and denied that Jesus is the Son of God? Does that mean there's no going back?

The situation is bad if someone lost their faith and has denied that Jesus is The Son of GOD, see Matthew 10:33. Deny Jesus and you deny The Father also!

But however for someone in that dire situation they must do all they can to return to GOD immediately and repent and confess their sin of unbelief and previous denial of The Lord Jesus and have faith to come back to serve The Living God.

1 John 1
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

God Knows the heart and the reason of why it happened, it is up to that person to go to GOD themselves humble themselves and ask for forgiveness and mercy! It is a very very serious matter even unto life or death.

littlesheep · Nov 7, 2012

Thanks very much for your reply. I am concerned about something relating to after I have prayed to God - how will I know that He accepts me back? How will I have assurance? This is something I really struggled with during my time trying to follow God - I frequently worried over and doubted my salvation. Also, I couldn't say with certainty that I had heard God speak to me and this was a constant source of insecurity.

Brad Huber · Nov 7, 2012

Our actions show the sincerity of our words. If our actions show a turnaround, then our repentance is true, if there is no change at all, then that as well shows a lack of sincerity in our determination to return to the Lord.

littlesheep · Nov 8, 2012

Brad Huber said:
Our actions show the sincerity of our words. If our actions show a turnaround, then our repentance is true, if there is no change at all, then that as well shows a lack of sincerity in our determination to return to the Lord.

I don't see how this answers my question. You seem to be saying that it has to all come from me - I have to believe that I have been accepted and change accordingly based on that belief. But I am looking for a connection with a God that is real - that really wants and accepts me back enough to give me some assurance. I have been through a lot of rejection and insecurity in my life and I don't want to just imagine that I am secure when I'm really not becaue that's been my past experience - I'm just not strong enough to pretend that everything is okay and make changes based on that. I have tried praying sincerely a while back, and asking God for some sign that he is there for me - and I don't see what is wrong with that - but I don't see any evidence at all that my prayer has been answered and often all I do see in the bible is the written threat of hell hanging over me, for being a child of His who through difficult situations and without support, questioned His existence and stopped going to church because I didn't want to pretend and had given away most of my spare income.

DutchChristian · Nov 8, 2012

Pray, pray, pray earnestly seek His Face and repent if you did not already!

God Can Give Peace and a clear conscience. you will know that you are saved by the Holy Spirit testifying in you that you are His.

get baptised, if you haven't already, read the Bible every day and stay praying do not give up it is all or nothing

Brad Huber · Nov 8, 2012

You seem to have a counter to many good answers from many of us. Perhaps you dont really expect one? Take it up with the Lord then, He is the one you dont believe without x,y,z proof. Ever heard that faith is what pleases the Lord? What is faith to you, and how do you think faith plays a part of the answer you are looking for?

SpiritLedEd · Nov 9, 2012

lilyofthevalley said:
I'd be grateful for people's thoughts on what someone's situation is if they have lost their faith and denied that Jesus is the Son of God? Does that mean there's no going back?

This decision is God's alone. Keep in mind that everyone has until the very last srcond of conscious thought before they die to make a decision to accept salvation. (cf Mt. 20:1-16)

SLE

Christ4Ever · Nov 9, 2012

Lilyofthevalley, you must first know Him, before you can deny Him.

Looking at your bio it seems that you don't. How can I a believer explain the Bible a guide to believers, whereby you might believe?
All, I can do is show you that Jesus died for you because of your sins. The Cross an Antonement to allow one to be reconciled with God our Creator.
One must believe He is who He says He is. Repent, and as He arose again, so will we to Eternal Life.

To do otherwise is to be condemned.

The question one has to ask is who would take a parachute off knowing they were about to jump from 20,000 KM to sure death? Who would turn away from the One who gave His life on the Cross that you might be saved from Hell?

I would ask you not to turn away, but turn to Him, the Christ, Jesus.

C4E
Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

SpiritLedEd · Nov 9, 2012

lilyofthevalley said:
I'm just not strong enough to pretend that everything is okay and make changes based on that. I have tried praying sincerely a while back, and asking God for some sign that he is there for me - and I don't see what is wrong with that - but I don't see any evidence at all that my prayer has been answered

Scripture tells us to be persistent in prayer (cf Lk 18-1-8), but we are never told that we can expect answers on our terms and in our anticipated time frame. I remember an issue I began to pray about almost daily in 1996, an issue that brought much strife into my life. The answer didn't begin to materialize until late last year, but when things did start to happen they happened fast. Keep on praying and keep on believing despite what your emotions are telling you.

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for; firm conviction about what we do not understand." (Heb 11:1)

SLE

Peace Seeker · Nov 11, 2012

lilyofthevalley said:
how will I know that He accepts me back? How will I have assurance? This is something I really struggled with during my time trying to follow God - I frequently worried over and doubted my salvation.

Hi, lilyofthevalley.

You can know that He will accept you back because the bible says WHOSOEVER [no exceptions] calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. See Romans 10:9-13. God cannot lie and will never turn away anyone who sincerely comes to Him. God took King David and the Apostle Peter back after their sins against Him, so why shouldn't He take you back if you are repentant as they were?

Here's some assurance about God's salvation :

John 5:24
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

The most famous verse in the bible, John 3:16, continues to say in verse 17 something just as important, that most people miss :

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

*** How many times did Israel turn away from God in the most egregiously sinful ways, yet He was always ready and quick to forgive them? Throughout the bible God calls, even begs (IMAGINE THAT!) Israel to return to Him. That is the depth of God's love for His people. So it's not about how many sins you've done, or even how big they are, it's about the power of Christ's blood (and His faithfulness) to cleanse all of your sins. God will welcome back the most sinful prodigal who humbly returns to Him.

So, my friend, give all your worries to God, repent of your sin of unbelief/doubt, or whatever it is, and call upon Him, taking Him at His word that He will save all who come to Him.

Shutterbug · Nov 11, 2012

A lot of good advice has been offered. Bottom line: either you want God in or your life on his terms, or you do not. One prays for wisdom on how best to fit into that concept, and how to be a good role model. Just do it. Otherwise, we essentially want God on our terms. I'm sure you can guess the outcome of that, too.

Cheers,
John

littlesheep · Nov 13, 2012

Thank you to everyone who's replied. I'm sorry that I haven't got back here before now but to be honest I haven't been sure how to respond and I'm pretty overwhelmed with some changes that are happening at the moment.

I'm not sure that anyone will really understand how I'm thinking and feeling about things unless they too have been through a time where they did not believe or doubted in the existence of God for sometime. Its also not just that - I think growing up with parents who really let me down when I turned to them for support and who neglected to care for me has played a part. I'm not saying that to shift responsibility - but I think it explains why I really need to see God's love in a tangible and consistent way. I've prayed and prayed over and over again the past, but my circumstances have slid steadily into decline. Maybe I've had the wrong idea about prayer - but in my times 'with God' I poured out my innermost thoughts, asked for help for others or, yes, in my own life and spent time in worship. But in seeking such emotional and close intimacy i feel really let down because the answers haven't come - at least not in a way that I've been able to comprehend and this has gone on for a long time. I'm just aware that I'm older, life seems to have passed me by while I've spent so much in my prayer closet, and I've come out to find that many other people have been living whilst I've been seeking God, who is seemingly so elusive.

On top of this I have given away a large percentage of my money to churches and Christian charities because I have wanted to please God so much. I'm pleased that there's been some benefit to people who are truly needy - but I woke up when I realised that my pastor was having skiing holidays and I hadn't had a break for over 7 years. Also, whilst I was doing this I was neglecting my own needs - because that's the way I've grown up - to put others first. I began to see church as a kind of business about getting people to feel good and particularly the church I was most recently at, seemed not to be able to cope with people who were truly vulnerable.

I hear what is being said about praying but I have tried ever such a lot. I understand what is said about the threat of hell - but having been threatened a lot by someone in my past after a while it kind of numbs you and makes you shut down because it just seems like control and not at all loving - 'do this, and its for your own good, or you get tortured'.

I realise that quite an effort has been made here with responding to my OP. My intention hasn't been to waste people's time. I did sense something when I read one post in particular - a sense of there being something pure of the notion of God's love.

Well, I guess all in all I'm just not convinced that God is really there. I want him to be there, I want him to exist, but I want to KNOW that he exists - maybe its like the story of the emperor without any clothes - wanting to call a bluff. Where is God? I'm not saying this to be disrespectful but just honestly asking, if God is real and a relationship is really possible, then why haven't I been experiencing this in tangible way? Where's the part where I can sense him definitely relating to me?

Christ4Ever · Nov 13, 2012

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lilyofthevalley said:
Thank you to everyone who's replied. I'm sorry that I haven't got back here before now but to be honest I haven't been sure how to respond and I'm pretty overwhelmed with some changes that are happening at the moment.

lilyofthevalley said:
I'm not sure that anyone will really understand how I'm thinking and feeling about things unless they too have been through a time where they did not believe or doubted in the existence of God for sometime. Its also not just that - I think growing up with parents who really let me down when I turned to them for support and who neglected to care for me has played a part. I'm not saying that to shift responsibility - but I think it explains why I really need to see God's love in a tangible and consistent way. I've prayed and prayed over and over again the past, but my circumstances have slid steadily into decline. Maybe I've had the wrong idea about prayer - but in my times 'with God' I poured out my innermost thoughts, asked for help for others or, yes, in my own life and spent time in worship. But in seeking such emotional and close intimacy i feel really let down because the answers haven't come - at least not in a way that I've been able to comprehend and this has gone on for a long time. I'm just aware that I'm older, life seems to have passed me by while I've spent so much in my prayer closet, and I've come out to find that many other people have been living whilst I've been seeking God, who is seemingly so elusive.

On top of this I have given away a large percentage of my money to churches and Christian charities because I have wanted to please God so much. I'm pleased that there's been some benefit to people who are truly needy - but I woke up when I realised that my pastor was having skiing holidays and I hadn't had a break for over 7 years. Also, whilst I was doing this I was neglecting my own needs - because that's the way I've grown up - to put others first. I began to see church as a kind of business about getting people to feel good and particularly the church I was most recently at, seemed not to be able to cope with people who were truly vulnerable.

I hear what is being said about praying but I have tried ever such a lot. I understand what is said about the threat of hell - but having been threatened a lot by someone in my past after a while it kind of numbs you and makes you shut down because it just seems like control and not at all loving - 'do this, and its for your own good, or you get tortured'.

I realise that quite an effort has been made here with responding to my OP. My intention hasn't been to waste people's time. I did sense something when I read one post in particular - a sense of there being something pure of the notion of God's love.

Well, I guess all in all I'm just not convinced that God is really there. I want him to be there, I want him to exist, but I want to KNOW that he exists - maybe its like the story of the emperor without any clothes - wanting to call a bluff. Where is God? I'm not saying this to be disrespectful but just honestly asking, if God is real and a relationship is really possible, then why haven't I been experiencing this in tangible way? Where's the part where I can sense him definitely relating to me?

First know I'm praying for you lillyofthevalley.

If the following seems a bit harsh in places Please know that I don't do this to insult you, or brow beat you. You're hurting enough the way it is and it is not my intent to add to the burden you are carrying, but to know that you don't have to carry it alone. My hope and prayers are that some of this might be a help to you. It might seem strange to you now, but know that I do this out of Love for you. That without Christ Jesus, I never would have known, or cared to share with you.

You are not dissimilar from many in this generation, this world, that say show yourself if you're real! Heal my brother, my sister, my friend and I'll believe in you! Get me this job and I'm yours! Let us have a real sit down conversation. Cause you know I have a lot of questions. Show yourself to me and I'll believe!!!!! Mean while you ignore the things that you see, feel, smell everyday which confirm His very existence! The breath in your lungs to the beating of your heart, your very life are insufficient and you ask "Is there a God?" You want the experience before you buy in. As if you're buying a car. Can I test drive it first God see if it fits? Like finding a mate "Let's live together honey, to see if marriage will work out." That mindset the world has, and it continues to add many to it's in growing number of loss.

Next you can't buy the knowledge, can't satisfy some unwritten or written code to come by it. Giving to charities or to the church, figuring that's what He wants me to do, without first believing that He is who He says He is, makes no sense to me and I believe in Him! As good as it might make you feel, or in this case bad, because of your pastor and your own needs to take care of, it's kind of like you've reached a point where you're saying "What about me?" "What am I getting out of all this?" Everybody else is getting something, but I'm getting nothing but a headache and sore muscles. I'm not asking for things, all I want is evidence that you are! Think this might seem like you're trying to buy into making an appointment with Him? Which means that you really do believe in a God but you want something a little more tangible to go by. If looking up at a night sky doesn't do it for you (Worked for me before anyone told me that I can recall, that He made it.) then how about a mirror? Do you know how much of a miracle of our Creator you are? Doesn't work perfectly all the time, or my nose looks a little crooked, or one eye is bigger than the other......LOL see how easy it is for us to find faults with ourselves? By doing this we actually don't see the forest for the trees (Had to use that You are awesome because God made you that way the same for everything around you shouts of what an awesome Creator He is. He didn't stop there. He also allowed you the ability to accept or deny His existence in spite of the evidence around you. That you even ask the question, tells me that you believe a God exists, but are not really sure what that means.

Believe this or not (Everyone falls into one side or the other.), what you're missing is Christ Jesus. To continue on with my previous use of "appointment". Christ Jesus is the only way by which your appointment is made. No other way around it. If I as a child had just continued as an adult to look at the heavens and everything around me, and accepted that a God existed. That knowledge by itself would have done me little good in and by itself. It's the same as reading the Bible from one end to the other.. Looks nice, even has some good stories and some grim warnings as well, but does little good without Jesus Christ as your Savior. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. " I'm sure you heard or even read that before. Why was it said?

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."
We all have sin in our hearts. We all were born with sin. We were born under the power of sin's control.
- Admit that you are a sinner.

Romans 6:23a "For the wages of sin is death..."
Sin has an ending. It results in death. We all face physical death, which is a result of sin. But a worse death is spiritual death that alienates us from God, and will last for all eternity. The Bible teaches that there is a place called the Lake of Fire where lost people will be in torment forever. It is the place where people who are spiritually dead will remain.
- Understand that you deserve death for your sin.

Romans 6:23b "...but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Salvation is a free gift from God to you! You can't earn this gift, but you must reach out and receive it.
- Ask God to forgive you and save you.

Romans 5:8 "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
When Jesus died on the cross He paid sin's penalty. He bought us out of slavery to sin and death! The only condition is that we believe in Him and what He has done for us, understanding that we are now joined with Him, and that He is our life. He did all this because He loved us and gave Himself for us!
- Give your life to God... His love poured out in Jesus on the cross is your only hope to have forgiveness and change. His love bought you out of being a slave to sin. His love is what saves you -- not religion, or church membership. God loves you!

Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
- Call out to God in the name of Jesus!

Romans 10:9, 10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
- If you know that God is knocking on your heart's door, ask Him to come into your heart.

Jesus said:
Revelation 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."
- Is Jesus knocking on your heart's door?

Believe in Him.
Ask Him to come in to your heart by faith.

Open the Bible to the Gospel of John and read what God says about Jesus, about you, and about being born again.
God will help you. He loves you.

You need to look for a local church where God's word is preached. Ask the folks here at TJ. They'll help. As you've seen for yourself, there are a number of my brothers & sisters in Christ Jesus, who want to help you. Be it laughing, crying, praying or just plain fellowship.

Praying that you will know Christ Jesus as your Lord and Savior and that one day I may call you my Sister in Christ Jesus!

Lord I pray for her that your call may move her spirit, her heart and that anything that is blocking her from knowing you as Lord and Savior be removed. That she may truly know the love you have for all your children. In your Holy name, Christ Jesus I pray. Amen.

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