If you don't do the things Jesus said, and you call yourself a Christian, are you really a Christian?

[Dave M]

King James Bible has undergone three revisions since its inception in 1611, incorporating more than 100,000 changes. Which King James Bible is it that you are referring to??

 

[JesusIs4Me]

AND one should NEVER study the Word intellectually, but in spirit and in truth.

It certainly cannot be done by tongues without interpretation as if one is really self edified in that manner when Paul said he pray that another will interpret that tongue being manifested thru him by the Spirit so that he would understand it for that tongue to be fruitful to himself, but many seem to read that as if he is praying in tongues while ignoring that purpose for interpretation so he would understand it for that tongue to be fruitful to himself as a tongue speaker so that means tongues was never meant to be a stand alone gift... otherwise believers would wind up saying stuff like this;

1 Corinthians 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

That is why tongues are the same as prophesy, 2 or 3 has to speak in tongues while on interpret and 2 or 3 has to prophesy while another judge it. In normal testimony, 2 or 3 witnesses are required to establish a testimony. Therefore tongues were never meant to be for private use.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

No gifts are gained by seeking the Holy Spirit to fall on the believer later on in life as this was written for believers to know that when it comes to gifts and holding to the same judgment in speaking the same thing.

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

But tongue speakers today read what they want to read in between the lines in scripture and in the Book of Acts to justify another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues and yet tongues was never to serve as a sign TOWARDS the believers for anything but to serve as a sign toward unbelieves thus without seeing themselves doing it, they are giving another calling and another gospel in receiving the Holy Spirit and it is the gospel of tongues for private use thereby separating themselves from the body of believers by having another drink of what they believe is that One Spirit, the Holy Spirit, but in hypocrisy when He is already in them since salvation as Spirit-filled as a testimony they are saved.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

King James Bible has undergone three revisions since its inception in 1611, incorporating more than 100,000 changes. Which King James Bible is it that you are referring to??

The one this site identifies it as 1900 KJV when you click on a scriptural reference with KJV next to it. Unless this site has changed that feature.

Funny thing about those changes … the message remains the same. Not so with modern bibles, brother, as it removes the meat for us to discern good and evil by and indeed, changed the message to lure many astray.

 

[Bendito]

It certainly cannot be done by tongues without interpretation as if one is really self edified in that manner when Paul said he pray that another will interpret that tongue being manifested thru him by the Spirit so that he would understand it for that tongue to be fruitful to himself, but many seem to read that as if he is praying in tongues while ignoring that purpose for interpretation so he would understand it for that tongue to be fruitful to himself as a tongue speaker so that means tongues was never meant to be a stand alone gift... otherwise believers would wind up saying stuff like this;

1 Corinthians 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

That is why tongues are the same as prophesy, 2 or 3 has to speak in tongues while on interpret and 2 or 3 has to prophesy while another judge it. In normal testimony, 2 or 3 witnesses are required to establish a testimony. Therefore tongues were never meant to be for private use.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

No gifts are gained by seeking the Holy Spirit to fall on the believer later on in life as this was written for believers to know that when it comes to gifts and holding to the same judgment in speaking the same thing.

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

But tongue speakers today read what they want to read in between the lines in scripture and in the Book of Acts to justify another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues and yet tongues was never to serve as a sign TOWARDS the believers for anything but to serve as a sign toward unbelieves thus without seeing themselves doing it, they are giving another calling and another gospel in receiving the Holy Spirit and it is the gospel of tongues for private use thereby separating themselves from the body of believers by having another drink of what they believe is that One Spirit, the Holy Spirit, but in hypocrisy when He is already in them since salvation as Spirit-filled as a testimony they are saved.

It seems that you are the only one discussing tongues in this conversation. I wonder why?

 

[Dave M]

The one this site identifies it as 1900 KJV when you click on a scriptural reference with KJV next to it. Unless this site has changed that feature.

Funny thing about those changes … the message remains the same. Not so with modern bibles, brother, as it removes the meat for us to discern good and evil by and indeed, changed the message to lure many astray.

interesting

300 words found in the KJV no longer bear the same meaning—e.g., “Suffer little children…to come unto me” (Matt 19:14). “Study to shew thyself approved unto God” (2 Tim 2:15). Should we really embrace a Bible as the best translation when it uses language that not only is not clearly understood any more, but in fact has been at times perverted and twisted?

the KJV includes one very definite error in translation, which even KJV advocates would admit. In Matthew 23:24 the KJV has ‘strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.’ But the Greek has ‘strain out a gnat and swallow a camel.’ In the least, this illustrates not only that no translation is infallible but also that scribal corruptions can and do take place-even in a volume which has been worked over by so many different hands (for the KJV was the product of a very large committee of over 50 scholars).4

Finally, though it is true that the modern translations ‘omit’ certain words and verses (or conversely, the KJV adds to the Word of God, depending on how you look at it), the issue is not black-or-white. In fact, the most recent edition of a Greek New Testament which is based on the majority of MSS, rather than the most ancient ones (and thus stands firmly behind the King James tradition), when compared to the standard Greek New Testament used in most modern translations, excises over six hundred and fifty words or phrases! Thus, it is not proper to suggest that only modern translations omit; the Greek text behind the KJV omits, too! The question, then, is not whether modern translations have deleted portions of the Word of God, but rather whether either the KJV or modern translations have altered the Word of God. I contend that the KJV has far more drastically altered the scriptures than have modern translations. Nevertheless, I repeat: most textual critics for the past two hundred and fifty years would say that no doctrine is affected by these changes. One can get saved reading the KJV and one can get saved reading the NIV, NASB, etc.

Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today

 

[JesusIs4Me]

interesting

300 words found in the KJV no longer bear the same meaning—e.g., “Suffer little children…to come unto me” (Matt 19:14). “Study to shew thyself approved unto God” (2 Tim 2:15). Should we really embrace a Bible as the best translation when it uses language that not only is not clearly understood any more, but in fact has been at times perverted and twisted?

BTW it seems the clicking on your scriptural references, that feature is not working as it keeps flipping me to a page that says it cannot be found.

In context, especially when the disciples are preventing the little children to come to Him, I understand it just fine.

the KJV includes one very definite error in translation, which even KJV advocates would admit.

Sorry. They don't even change my mind. It is not an error if I understand it plainly enough.

In Matthew 23:24 the KJV has ‘strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.’ But the Greek has ‘strain out a gnat and swallow a camel.’ In the least, this illustrates not only that no translation is infallible but also that scribal corruptions can and do take place-even in a volume which has been worked over by so many different hands (for the KJV was the product of a very large committee of over 50 scholars).4

I see no difference in meaning. I get it. Difficult. I would find you having a difficult time explaining how the two is different in meaning when they both signify difficult to wit His disciples wonder how any one can be saved seeing how it is impossible for men which to wit Jesus says what is impossible for men is possible with God.

Finally, though it is true that the modern translations ‘omit’ certain words and verses (or conversely, the KJV adds to the Word of God, depending on how you look at it), the issue is not black-or-white. In fact, the most recent edition of a Greek New Testament which is based on the majority of MSS, rather than the most ancient ones (and thus stands firmly behind the King James tradition), when compared to the standard Greek New Testament used in most modern translations, excises over six hundred and fifty words or phrases! Thus, it is not proper to suggest that only modern translations omit; the Greek text behind the KJV omits, too! The question, then, is not whether modern translations have deleted portions of the Word of God, but rather whether either the KJV or modern translations have altered the Word of God. I contend that the KJV has far more drastically altered the scriptures than have modern translations. Nevertheless, I repeat: most textual critics for the past two hundred and fifty years would say that no doctrine is affected by these changes. One can get saved reading the KJV and one can get saved reading the NIV, NASB, etc.

No doubt about that. I have seen believers uses modern Bibles for others to hear and read to be saved by BUT I am not talking about that at all. I am talking about how modern Bibles remove the meat of His words to discern good and evil by and even changed the message that it supports false teachings, and even tongues not of Him at all. Scripture cannot go against scripture and so if you come across a Bible verse in your preferred Bible reading that bothers you or opposes the truth as you seem to know it, then go to the KJV for comparison. That is what I had done in my Ryrie Study Bible which is the NASB and I had been a regular with the NIV too before I got offended by those changed messages and stuck with the KJV for good, because I would rather have a Bible that keeps the testimonies of the Son from those that loves Him that kept His words for me to have today by His grace and by His help.

Psalm 119:157 Many are my persecutors and mine enemies; yet do I not decline from thy testimonies. 158 I beheld the transgressors, and was grieved; because they kept not thy word.

Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today

Getting close to supper, but if the Lord is willing, I shall click on it to see that thread. Thanks for sharing. I know it is on God to minister and to cause the increase and so if I am not back because my computer is odd... I leave you all in His hands.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today

I am sure that incident is true but there is an oversight as proven by extrabiblical evidence of 1 John 5:7 of the KJV ( also the 1599 Geneva Bible ) as originally belonging in scripture.

Does 1 John 5:7 Belong in Scripture?

So obviously, the author at that site nor did Erasmus in his times, did not have all the information for him to reach a reasonable conclusion for the truth.

 

[Bendito]

I am sure that incident is true but there is an oversight as proven by extrabiblical evidence of 1 John 5:7 of the KJV ( also the 1599 Geneva Bible ) as originally belonging in scripture.

Does 1 John 5:7 Belong in Scripture?

So obviously, the author at that site nor did Erasmus in his times, did not have all the information for him to reach a reasonable conclusion for the truth.

If 1 John5:7 is there rest assured....It belongs there. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[Dovegiven]

It's very unfortunate that some people believe either one of these two extremes. We don't have to be perfect, but we do have to live a certain way.

Rom 6:16; Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

I would add that no slave would often be expected to know so much of his master that he knew what to do next without leadership from his master.
We all should wake up anticipating the Lord is about to move on. Suppose an apostle overslept, while Jesus and some others went on up or down? If we fall behind, it becomes our situation to catch up, but with the help op the Spirit within can do that.

So the left behind one is left with what? The preparation. Being made "perfect" a step at a time, which means prepared, fitted, made ready to perform what the Master expects of a student. Even if late showing up a Christian ought to be able to do the job a Christian faces that he or she has been prepared for. A "disciple" is a true one if so prepared by his master. You go with what you last heard from Him. We learn then practice it, then learn, then practice again, each and every day if a true disciple of Christ.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

If 1 John5:7 is there rest assured....It belongs there. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Amen.

The problem here is when I try to correct anti-Trinitarians, they just use antiKJVers rhetoric in not sticking to that KJV Bible. So this is why it is so hard to correct false teachings when it seems like anti-KJV propaganda has prejudiced many to disregard the KJV while they go to modern Bibles and say that 1 John 5:7 does not belong there because of an incident with Erasmus when at that time, they did not have all the information available to know it belonged in the scripture.

Anyway, there are other reasons why I rely on the KJV to correct other false teachings like the one about being in the process of being saved that most modern Bibles has "are being saved" in 1 Corinthians 1:18 when the KJV has it as "are saved in 1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV. So just a little change like that is why you come across believers that believe they are not saved yet. But only God can recover them when facing antiKJVers prejudice to have others to agree to rely only on the KJV for the meat of His words to discern good and evil by it. It is something God has to do and can do by leading them to investigate with Him in a private Bible study research among Bible versions to see why the KJV is the one to rely on for discernment.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

I would add that no slave would often be expected to know so much of his master that he knew what to do next without leadership from his master.
We all should wake up anticipating the Lord is about to move on. Suppose an apostle overslept, while Jesus and some others went on up or down? If we fall behind, it becomes our situation to catch up, but with the help op the Spirit within can do that.

So the left behind one is left with what? The preparation. Being made "perfect" a step at a time, which means prepared, fitted, made ready to perform what the Master expects of a student. Even if late showing up a Christian ought to be able to do the job a Christian faces that he or she has been prepared for. A "disciple" is a true one if so prepared by his master. You go with what you last heard from Him. We learn then practice it, then learn, then practice again, each and every day if a true disciple of Christ.

As we can see, when there are many Bible versions out there and they are not all saying the same thing, how can anyone catch up? How can any one correct another by the KJV when they can just go to another Bible version that supports their false teaching or that tongue which is not of Him at all, but is found in the world before Pentecost as gibberish nonsense for why they believe it must be for private use because it never comes with actual interpretation.

I have come across a lot of impasse and indifference towards the KJV, in correcting others by it, but again, I can do nothing without Him. If He is not ministering because they can't get passed their church's teaching or that supernatural phenomenon whereby they identify themselves by it and do not care to depart from that because it exalts them in the eyes of the average common believer. We must decrease for Him to decrease; John 3:30 KJV We cannot be preaching ourselves nor putting the spotlight on our selves when the Good news is about Jesus Christ as our hopes should be on Him for all things; 1 Corinthians 2:2 KJV & 1 John 3:3 KJV & Romans 8:31-32 KJV & 2 Timothy 4:18 KJV & Jude 1:24-25 KJV

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

So compare your version with the KJV starting today and trust Him to show you why KJV is the one to rely on.

Why is it you feel the KJV is the Holy grail of bibles?

When its compared to the old Hebrew writings there are errors found. Such as the word Wilfully that is left out of the KJV but in the old Hebrew writings it reads continues to "willfully" sin.

The KJV is the oldest version written by MEN that MEN know of. This does not make it flawless.

King James had the scholars and theologians of the day rewrite some transcripts and such into a more "to them" easy to read and understand.

Jesus nor the Disciples spoke in old English.

Let me ask you this. What is sin?
Would you agree it is anything you know is wrong but do it anyway?

So scripture says....Love does not demand its way or insist on its own way.
We are commanded to walk in Love.
So would insisting KJV is the only true version Christians should read be the same as pushing, insisting ones belief on others and by doing so violate Love and thus be considered sin?

Blessings

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

But only God can recover them when facing antiKJVers prejudice to have others to agree to rely only on the KJV for the meat of His words to discern good and evil by it. It is something God has to do and can do by leading them to investigate with Him in a private Bible study research among Bible versions to see why the KJV is the one to rely on for discernment.

Rely on a Bible version for discernment?
No friend I rely on the Spirit of God for Discernment.

The Spirit Discerns of Spiritual things .
Blessings

 

[Hekuran]

Please stay on topic. There's plenty of threads debating the merits of different Bibles. Continue there if you need to.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Anyway, there are other reasons why I rely on the KJV to correct other false teachings

Scripture says we only know in part. So this means there are more parts that we do not know.

So what you are saying is you take what understanding you have from the KJV and use it to correct everyone who disagrees with your understanding.

That's most dangerous because there will be times you are rejecting truth you simply do not yet understand and claiming it is false teaching.

Blessings to you my friend

 

[Dovegiven]

Note to Readers;

Ever noticed how all the Bibles are not saying the same thing? Ever notice how trying to correct someone by the scripture in your preferred Bible, they can point to something else in that Bible version that opposes what you are saying? Most of the time they jump to another version of that Bible verse in question that you are trying to reprove them by but they can point to another version of the same verse in supporting the false teaching they are under?

All I can do is advise what Christ has done for me.. compare the KJV with everything you read in your preferred version and you will find yourself relying on the KJV for the meat of His words in discerning good and evil by it.

I push you to go to Jesus Christ to help you understand and confirm why the KJV is the one to rely on in discerning good and evil in these latter days where faith is hard to find and defend since there are so many anti-KJVers out there. That is all you need to doubt His words and just give up when all the Bibles don't say the same thing, but I urge you not to give up and trust Jesus Christ as your Good Shepherd to help you understand the KJV and to confirm His word in the KJV against other modern Bible versions so that you are not led astray as many modern bibles have done to many believers in these latter days. So compare your version with the KJV starting today and trust Him to show you why KJV is the one to rely on.

It can be daunting to go through many versions, the reason that pursuit ought to include consulting one of many interlinear scripture analyzers that can present to you the original words and meanings. One of my resources I like is Free Interlinear From there prayerfully investigate related scriptures, and very importantly examine the context. What was the overall message, intent, audience? Knowing some ancient culture helps, though mankind has not evolved to become a strange creature. You will find that to get a verse into English you will be forced to add some words between originals to make a verse conversational, unless you converse in Hebrew or Greek already.

 

[Bendito]

Amen.

The problem here is when I try to correct anti-Trinitarians, they just use antiKJVers rhetoric in not sticking to that KJV Bible. So this is why it is so hard to correct false teachings when it seems like anti-KJV propaganda has prejudiced many to disregard the KJV while they go to modern Bibles and say that 1 John 5:7 does not belong there because of an incident with Erasmus when at that time, they did not have all the information available to know it belonged in the scripture.

Anyway, there are other reasons why I rely on the KJV to correct other false teachings like the one about being in the process of being saved that most modern Bibles has "are being saved" in 1 Corinthians 1:18 when the KJV has it as "are saved in 1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV. So just a little change like that is why you come across believers that believe they are not saved yet. But only God can recover them when facing antiKJVers prejudice to have others to agree to rely only on the KJV for the meat of His words to discern good and evil by it. It is something God has to do and can do by leading them to investigate with Him in a private Bible study research among Bible versions to see why the KJV is the one to rely on for discernment.

It can be daunting to go through many versions, the reason that pursuit ought to include consulting one of many interlinear scripture analyzers that can present to you the original words and meanings. One of my resources I like is Free Interlinear From there prayerfully investigate related scriptures, and very importantly examine the context. What was the overall message, intent, audience? Knowing some ancient culture helps, though mankind has not evolved to become a strange creature. You will find that to get a verse into English you will be forced to add some words between originals to make a verse conversational, unless you converse in Hebrew or Greek already.

Why not simply depend on the Holy Spirit to teach you....He KNOWS what He means to say.

 

[Dovegiven]

That's where the 'follower of Jesus' language is helpful. We hope to follow closely and steadily, though we often fall behind or wander down side paths. But for every Christian, it's clear ultimately whose footsteps we are treading in.

Please stay on topic. There's plenty of threads debating the merits of different Bibles. Continue there if you need to.

Along this line in Post [HASH=1766]#7?[/HASH]

B-A-C said: It's very unfortunate that some people believe either one of these two extremes. We don't have to be perfect, but we do have to live a certain way.

You replied "That's where the 'follower of Jesus' language is helpful. We hope to follow closely and steadily, though we often fall behind or wander down side paths. But for every Christian, it's clear ultimately whose footsteps we are treading in." Who is off topic?

 

[Dovegiven]

Why not simply depend on the Holy Spirit to teach you....He KNOWS what He means to say.

Many Christians ask me why, if they have the Holy Spirit, they can't understand the Bible well enough to not need a teacher? My answer is Jesus gave such gifts to men. I appreciate spiritual gifts in believers.

 

[Bendito]

Many Christians ask me why, if they have the Holy Spirit, they can't understand the Bible well enough to not need a teacher? My answer is Jesus gave such gifts to men. I appreciate spiritual gifts in believers.

Yes He gave such gifts to men....But He still teaches Himself. He's not retired.