Is Church Tithing an Abomination to God, or Unbiblical?

[Bendito]

Is Church Tithing an Abomination to God, or Unbiblical?

Tithing, as practiced by Christians, has no Biblical foundation; there's no support for giving 10% of your income to the church. The Bible's primary guidance is that we look after the poor.

Church tithes go here (approximately):
50% Staff salaries
30% Building
10% Missionary (salaries)
0.05% Direct help for the poor (if they're lucky)

Once you understand this, you may well find yourself asking:
Does God despise the church tithe?

Thoughts?

Simon....Do you think the Old Covenant is no longer relevant? Its just as relevant today as it ever was.

 

[Simon]

Simon....Do you think the Old Covenant is no longer relevant? Its just as relevant today as it ever was.

Okay, let's say you are right, let's say we are required to tithe according to Old Testament law:

The OT requires people ONLY tithe on flocks or crops. No one tithed on income or money, it was forbidden.
If you reap a crop you must tithe on the crop.
If you have 10 animals born, you must tithe on the tenth.
This is why most people in OT Israel were not required to tithe.
Only land owners and the owners of flocks tithed.

They must only tithe 6 out of 7 years. Law forbids tithing on a Sabbath year.

Who must be given your tithe according to the law?
You must never give your tithe to the temple. Only Levites tithed to the temple.
The poor, Levites, and your own family should be given or share in your tithe.

Levites
Let's be clear, the Levites are not priests, they had secular jobs and only worked at the temple about 7 to 10 days a year!
The Levites were given the tithe because they were not allowed to own land (except in cities) in Israel, which is why flocks and crops were appropriate compensation for not easily being able to plant crops or raise flocks.
All the Jewish sects, and modern Orthodox, Conservative and Reform Jews recognised that without the Land of Israel there could be no tithe to the Levites.
After the Fall of Israel, Jewish synagogues have been supported by dues, not by any tithing system.

Family
Your own family should share in the tithe 4 out of 7 years (flocks and crops only).

The Poor
The poor should be invited to share your tithe (flocks and crops) with you 2 out of 7 years.

There it is, that is what the tithe would roughly look like if we try to make OT law of tithing relevant today.

regards,
Simon

 

[Bendito]

Okay, let's say you are right, let's say we are required to tithe according to Old Testament law:

The OT requires people ONLY tithe on flocks or crops. No one tithed on income or money, it was forbidden.
If you reap a crop you must tithe on the crop.
If you have 10 animals born, you must tithe on the tenth.
This is why most people in OT Israel were not required to tithe.
Only land owners and the owners of flocks tithed.

They must only tithe 6 out of 7 years. Law forbids tithing on a Sabbath year.

Who must be given your tithe according to the law?
You must never give your tithe to the temple. Only Levites tithed to the temple.
The poor, Levites, and your own family should be given or share in your tithe.

Levites
Let's be clear, the Levites are not priests, they had secular jobs and only worked at the temple about 7 to 10 days a year!
The Levites were given the tithe because they were not allowed to own land (except in cities) in Israel, which is why flocks and crops were appropriate compensation for not easily being able to plant crops or raise flocks.
All the Jewish sects, and modern Orthodox, Conservative and Reform Jews recognised that without the Land of Israel there could be no tithe to the Levites.
After the Fall of Israel, Jewish synagogues have been supported by dues, not by any tithing system.

Family
Your own family should share in the tithe 4 out of 7 years (flocks and crops only).

The Poor
The poor should be invited to share your tithe (flocks and crops) with you 2 out of 7 years.

There it is, that is what the tithe would roughly look like if we try to make OT law of tithing relevant today.

regards,
Simon

So you go to work...you sow your seed....you reap your pay....you tithe on your harvest....But as I said.....You are not obliged to tithe anymore but can you afford not to tithe? Its not the tithe pe se....Its the principal....the principal works for you or against you

 

[Simon]

So you go to work...you sow your seed....you reap your pay....you tithe on your harvest....But as I said.....You are not obliged to tithe anymore but can you afford not to tithe? Its not the tithe pe se....Its the principal....the principal works for you or against you

Like I said, no one tithed on income, or pay, in the OT, so why would you think tithing has anything to do with pay or income?
Most believers in the OT did not tithe and were not required tithe, so why would you think there's a principal to tithe on pay in the NT?
And how does this work for me or against me?

Thanks,

 

[Bendito]

Like I said, no one tithed on income, or pay, in the OT, so why would you think tithing has anything to do with pay or income?
Most believers in the OT did not tithe and were not required tithe, so why would you think there's a principal to tithe on pay in the NT?
And how does this work for me or against me?

Thanks,

The principal would come from the promise...as in
Proverbs 11:24 ESV
One gives freely, yet grows all the richer; another withholds what he should give, and only suffers want.

Luke 6:38 ESV
Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

As I said....The Old Covenant is fulfilled, which does not mean it it done away with...The New Covenant law is here....These are the two that we must live by in the New Covenant..
Matthew 22:36-40King James Version (KJV)
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Notice verse 40? On these two laws, are the entire Old Covenant based....That means that if you live by these two laws you fulfill the OC law. And it also frees you to give a tithe of anything you want to...The Jews lived in a mainly agrarian society. They took their increase from the land. Today we live in a much more diverse society, from farming, fishing to politics and manufacturing and so on....Therefore our produce is infinitely variable.

 

[Dave M]

I like that Bendito!! can you afford not to tithe !!

 

[B-A-C]

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Notice verse 40? On these two laws, are the entire Old Covenant based....That means that if you live by these two laws you fulfill the OC law. And it also frees you to give a tithe of anything you want to...The Jews lived in a mainly agrarian society. They took their increase from the land. Today we live in a much more diverse society, from farming, fishing to politics and manufacturing and so on....Therefore our produce is infinitely variable.

Paul says if we aren't cheating with their wife, murdering them, stealing from them, etc.. basically we are loving them.

Rom 13:8; Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9; For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Rom 13:10; Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Matt 19:16; And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?"
Matt 19:17; And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Matt 19:18; Then he *said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS;
Matt 19:19; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

Luke 10:25; And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
Luke 10:26; And He said to him, "What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?"
Luke 10:27; And he answered, "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Luke 10:28; And He said to him, "You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE."

Note: The upper-case letters are not my doing. Whenever the NASB quotes the old testament, it puts the letters in upper-case.

Jas 2:8; If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.

 

[Simon]

The principal would come from the promise...as in
Proverbs 11:24 ESV
One gives freely, yet grows all the richer; another withholds what he should give, and only suffers want.

Luke 6:38 ESV
Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

As I said....The Old Covenant is fulfilled, which does not mean it it done away with...The New Covenant law is here....These are the two that we must live by in the New Covenant..
Matthew 22:36-40King James Version (KJV)
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Notice verse 40? On these two laws, are the entire Old Covenant based....That means that if you live by these two laws you fulfill the OC law. And it also frees you to give a tithe of anything you want to...The Jews lived in a mainly agrarian society. They took their increase from the land. Today we live in a much more diverse society, from farming, fishing to politics and manufacturing and so on....Therefore our produce is infinitely variable.

We do have an obligation to look after the poor, but the 'tithe' is about as relevant today as making a burnt offering of grain in church.
Did I say grain, I meant cash, because we no longer live in an agrarian society...
I wonder why pastors don't encourage their congregants to make burnt offerings of cash before the Lord in their churches?

Can you afford not to make a burnt offering!!!

It's not just the use, actually misuse, of the word 'tithe' that I object to, along with the entitlement attitude of those who preach the tithe, but it's also how the money is spent.
I believe God is grieved when a poor family with children are working at least two full-time jobs because they've been told they are free/obligated to tithe, that they can't afford not to tithe, because God will bless them.
Actually it's often the pastor who is blessed with a six-figure income and wife who doesn't have to work...
This is why the OT tithe was ONLY for the more wealthy land-owners, not the farm workers, and flock owners not the shepherds.

When you give, expect nothing in return, and your reward will be great, in Heaven.
If you believe God rewards tithing with material wealth, why is the wealthiest people group in the United States the homosexuals?

God provides our needs, He sometimes blesses us greatly, but this is regardless of our tithing practices.

What I have received from God has been by grace, not by works, not by fulfilling any law, or earning it.
In fact, this was a reason why the tithe was flocks and crops only, God did not want us to bring OUR works (our earnings) to Him.
He wanted us to bring Him what He had done, a miracle of God, it is God who creates new life, and God who causes crops to grow.


God bless,
Simon

 

[Bendito]

We do have an obligation to look after the poor, but the 'tithe' is about as relevant today as making a burnt offering of grain in church.
Did I say grain, I meant cash, because we no longer live in an agrarian society...
I wonder why pastors don't encourage their congregants to make burnt offerings of cash before the Lord in their churches?

Can you afford not to make a burnt offering!!!

It's not just the use, actually misuse, of the word 'tithe' that I object to, along with the entitlement attitude of those who preach the tithe, but it's also how the money is spent.
I believe God is grieved when a poor family with children are working at least two full-time jobs because they've been told they are free/obligated to tithe, that they can't afford not to tithe, because God will bless them.
Actually it's often the pastor who is blessed with a six-figure income and wife who doesn't have to work...
This is why the OT tithe was ONLY for the more wealthy land-owners, not the farm workers, and flock owners not the shepherds.

When you give, expect nothing in return, and your reward will be great, in Heaven.
If you believe God rewards tithing with material wealth, why is the wealthiest people group in the United States the homosexuals?

God provides our needs, He sometimes blesses us greatly, but this is regardless of our tithing practices.

What I have received from God has been by grace, not by works, not by fulfilling any law, or earning it.
In fact, this was a reason why the tithe was flocks and crops only, God did not want us to bring OUR works (our earnings) to Him.
He wanted us to bring Him what He had done, a miracle of God, it is God who creates new life, and God who causes crops to grow.


God bless,
Simon

Of course Simon, you have the right to believe what you want, just like others....Its between you and God anyway...I'll back out of here for a while. I need a peaceful atmosphere to recoup.

 

[Dave M]

Is Church Tithing an Abomination to God, or Unbiblical?

Tithing, as practiced by Christians, has no Biblical foundation; there's no support for giving 10% of your income to the church. The Bible's primary guidance is that we look after the poor.

Church tithes go here (approximately):
50% Staff salaries
30% Building
10% Missionary (salaries)
0.05% Direct help for the poor (if they're lucky)

Once you understand this, you may well find yourself asking:
Does God despise the church tithe?

Thoughts?

Simon I here you and agree for the most part, but it seems you are talking more about churches that abuse the tithe. I know of a ministry the salary of the pastor is 5% its pretty easy to look at the fruits a church is producing and have a good insight if they are abusing or not. I tell you one thing any church that does not have a independent audit and have complete transparency with its financials is a good sign they are abusing it.

You also have to be fair and flip those numbers around

 

[Simon]

I don't know whether to be encouraged or concerned that no one has tried to Biblically defend giving 10% of your monetary income to a church.
Should I be encouraged that no one will try to defend it, or concerned because people would rather bury head in the sand?
Thoughts?

Simon

 

[Dave M]

I personally think we should give much more the 10%, you want to know whear a mans heart is let me see his check book

 

[JesusGivesLifeMeaning]

A thread like this is food for thought, however, I'm not sure if it changes many folks minds. It is a good discussion, to stir up one's beliefs, and possibly "sacred cow" ways of thinking. On another Christian forum I am a member of, this discussion has gone on for 250 + pages, no conclusion, and many hurt feelings.

 

[Simon]

I personally think we should give much more the 10%, you want to know whear a mans heart is let me see his check book

Dave,

If you want to be perfect, sell everything and give to the poor.

The poor, not the church.

Many are stuck believing we should give to the church. Which is like any other "nonprofit" that eats almost all of your money in overhead . Give your money to individuals not institutions.

Simon

 

[Dave M]

Simon do you think by doing that alone God would grant you salvation, do you really think it would make you perfect? was Jesus talking to all of us when he said that? or Just the rich guy to prove a point?


but I agree with you for the most part about churches, but there are some good one still out there, It our duty do do our due diligence in checking where the money goes when we give for the kingdom of God

 

[Simon]

A thread like this is food for thought, however, I'm not sure if it changes many folks minds. It is a good discussion, to stir up one's beliefs, and possibly "sacred cow" ways of thinking. On another Christian forum I am a member of, this discussion has gone on for 250 + pages, no conclusion, and many hurt feelings.

I may only sow a few seeds, and from that perhaps one or two may years later see the truth.

Whenever the truth is spoken or the gospel preached, people will be offended. But others will be edified.

Small things people said stayed in the back of my mind for years, like pieces of a puzzle , until I eventually put enough together to cause me to study the subject in depth.

Simon

 

[Simon]

Simon do you think by doing that alone God would grant you salvation, do you really think it would make you perfect? was Jesus talking to all of us when he said that? or Just the rich guy to prove a point?


but I agree with you for the most part about churches, but there are some good one still out there, It our duty do do our due diligence in checking where the money goes when we give for the kingdom of God

Dave,

No salvation for giving away money , or any other works based attempts to please God.

You may be closer to the kingdom of God when you directly help someone in need, a member of your own family even, than when you give to the church.

Simon

 

[amadeus2]

Each of us has to make his own mind on what to give or what not to give. If we are regularly communicating with God, He will gives us the right answer for us. Since we are all in different places and levels in our walk with God, the answer for one may not agree with the answer for another. Black and white answers were available in the OT but people who really cared about God may have been given another answer:

Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Psa 51:18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
Psa 51:19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

What does God require of us and what does God want from us? The answers to the two questions may not be the same.

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Ultimately, the way should be in all Churches (not demoninations) that a member gives 'to the Church' and those elected see to it that those in need receive according to their needs.

We can see throughout Scripture that helping those of the household of God is right and acceptable in the sight of the LORD. In fact it equates to Life if we can understand Ezekiel 14 and Matthew 25: 31-46

As Simon has clearly pointed out, the tithe was not for the 'average' man. In fact, the LORD requires something different from us.
Does anyone know what that is ? Look here for a clue: Deuteronomy 10:12-15 and Micah 6:8

Kindness to strangers is acceptable. Who are strangers?

As we all know, tithing as generally misunderstood is not a Scriptural doctrine and therefore it may be said that it is unbiblical. Regarding being an abomination, that may be determined if we look to see if such a practice undermines the Gospel and most certainly if some teach/preach tithing as being a doctrine that the LORD has commanded, as with all false and gain seeking and manipulative attempts in His name are.

It is NOT up to us to decide and do as we want if we truly seek after Him Who has betrothed Himself to us and has given us the Spirit to hearken unto. He has also given us the Scripture that we may search it out.

Bless you ....><>

 

[Simon]

Each of us has to make his own mind on what to give or what not to give.

Yes, and I am trying to help them make up their minds by pointing out the truth about tithing in the Bible.
And pointing out the scandalous success of most of the church in distorting the truth for their own gain.