Is Church Tithing an Abomination to God, or Unbiblical?

[amadeus2]

Yes, and I am trying to help them make up their minds by pointing out the truth about tithing in the Bible.
And pointing out the scandalous success of most of the church in distorting the truth for their own gain.

My point is that each person is to do what God has put in his heart to do if God has put it there. We must hear what God is saying to us before we are able to correctly respond to His Word. As to defining any part of the truth for someone, that can only be done, I believe, if first God has given it to you AND second God is using you to share it with someone whose heart is open to it.

 

[Simon]

My point is that each person is to do what God has put in his heart to do if God has put it there. We must hear what God is saying to us before we are able to correctly respond to His Word. As to defining any part of the truth for someone, that can only be done, I believe, if first God has given it to you AND second God is using you to share it with someone whose heart is open to it.

Martin Luther and the whole protestant movement criticized church leaders for their greedy deceptive practices to fleece the flock so they could live lavishly, exercise control, and maintain extravagant building budgets.

As PROTESTants we should not despise our heritage. Speak out against the lies in the church, and speak up for the poor and the widows who have been told they are robbing God if they don't hand over at least 10% of their income to the church.

 

[B-A-C]

I tithe. Not because I "have" to. Not because it's required to go to heaven. I simply think it's the right thing to do.
Now God might not punish me if I don't tithe. But on the other hand, he probably won't bless me if I don't either.

Mal 3:8; "Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed You?' In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9; "You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation of you!
Mal 3:10; "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.
Mal 3:11; "Then I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of the ground; nor will your vine in the field cast its grapes," says the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:12; "All the nations will call you blessed, for you shall be a delightful land," says the LORD of hosts.

It's been my experience the more I give to God, the more he gives to me. (not always monetarily).

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Martin Luther and the whole protestant movement criticized church leaders for their greedy deceptive practices to fleece the flock so they could live lavishly, exercise control, and maintain extravagant building budgets.

As PROTESTants we should not despise our heritage. Speak out against the lies in the church, and speak up for the poor and the widows who have been told they are robbing God if they don't hand over at least 10% of their income to the church.

while it is important to speak up about such matters it is vital that we do not misinterpret the Scripture. For ourselves and for others.

Sometimes Christians might think that what they understand is correct and yet they are mistaken. In such circumstances it is our duty to help them see error but more importantly to see truth that they might realize the error they have swallowed. However, not all are willing to welcome help and will reject attempts.

From what Simon has pointed out, tithing was NEVER for the average man to do BUT today we see/hear so many trying to convince the hearers that they must tithe and will not be acceptable before God if they don't (coercion) and others who say it is up to everyone to choose to tithe if they want to (usually with suggestions that God will be pleased). It is in everyone's best interest to know the truth and not be driven by either guilt or gain through ignorance.

The devil is a liar and a thief.

There is nothing wrong with giving to others but even then we can do so without listening to or hearing what the Spirit says.

Do we want to follow Jesus Christ? Or do we want to follow men?

If tithing was NEVER required from the masses then what reason is there to tithe now? There is certainly no Scripture instructing us to tithe either then or now.

Do not be deceived.

Tithing and giving are not the same. This thread is addressing the correct stand on tithing.

If you have been one who has 'tithed' and do 'tithe' you are encouraged to take the challenge of the truth about tithing and know that it is the truth that sets you free. The LORD does look after you because of Who He is and for His name's sake.
Trust in Him.

Bless you ....><>

 

[Simon]

Malachi is most abused scripture by those who preach tithing for the NT.
Here's just three major problems with the use of Malichi:

1. Malichi was addressing the Priests, not the people of God.
Reading all 4 chapters makes this clear; but almost all scholars agree that it was the Priests who were robbing God.
Which, ironically is my contention for today.

2. Tithing was only for a minority of landowners and flock owners in Israel, during the Levitical, Sabbath Jubilee system, and is completely irrelevant.

3. If it were relevant today, you must only tithe on flocks and crops or you are breaking the law of God.


I know millions of people who hate God, yet are 'blessed' with abundance and prosperity.
I also know people who tithe yet are in poverty, bankruptcy, and many just found themselves 10% poorer.

Give to the poor, help those in need, live justly, and God will look upon you with favour.

God Bless
Simon

 

[B-A-C]

Well Malachi is Old testament, so I can't argue that point.
But that tithing was just for priests is easily proved wrong. In fact there are over a dozen verses in Leviticus alone that say tithing "to" the priests
is how they survived. I would be interested in any scripture that says it was just for priests.
(Numb 18:21; Numb 18:24; etc.. )

Back to Malachi. he doesn't say "just the priests" are robbing me.
He says... "the whole nation of you". That's everyone in the nation.

The tithe of the priests.. was from the tithes they were given.. "a tithe of the tithe" Numb 18:26;

 

[Simon]

Well Malachi is Old testament, so I can't argue that point.
But that tithing was just for priests is easily proved wrong. In fact there are over a dozen verses in Leviticus alone that say tithing "to" the priests
is how they survived. I would be interested in any scripture that says it was just for priests.
(Numb 18:21; Numb 18:24; etc.. )

Back to Malachi. he doesn't say "just the priests" are robbing me.
He says... "the whole nation of you". That's everyone in the nation.

The tithe of the priests.. was from the tithes they were given.. "a tithe of the tithe" Numb 18:26;

I wasn't saying tithing was only for Priests, but that Malachi was accusing the priests of robbing God, not the people (almost all scholars agree).
The book starts talking to all Israel and then focuses in on the priests for robbing God.
Example (source: Malachi 3 and Tithing )

The Audience of Malachi
When studying a book of the Bible, one of the primary things to look for is who the book is addressed to. That is, who is written to? Who is the audience? Who did the author have in mind when he wrote?

With Malachi, this question is easily answered, for Malachi refers to them directly several times. In several places, Malachi reveals that he is addressing the priests of Israel (1:6; 2:1), and the sons of Levi (3:3).

And what is it these priests are doing? They sneer at the commands of God, saying such things are “weariness” (1:13). They bring contemptible offerings to God, animals that are stolen, sick, and lame (1:13). They exploit wage earners, widows, and orphans (3:5). And they are robbing God of the tithes and offerings that belong to Him (3:8-10).
---

 

[amadeus2]

The details of what was actually occurring during OT times was certainly important to them living in their flesh then. What is important to us from [the OT is what God teaches us from it. In the OT, as now, God was looking for people who would willing give of themselves to please God rather than to simply protect or defend themselves against God's wrath.

What we have seen in recent times which is quite similar is preachers preaching more about the avoidance of hell fire than about working to please God simply because we love Him. Remember again, 1st things first:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

And also remember what happened and is happening that displeases God:

"I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." Rev 2:2-5

These words were specifically addressed to the church at Ephesus, but are they not also addressed to you and me, the members of the Church today?

We look at people complain because they don't tithe or complain because the do. What we need to do is thank God that they love Him enough to even think about what is right or what is wrong in His eyes and then pray that God helps them and us to move closer to Him.

People who believe they have already got it made should rethink carefully why God put them here and what it it that He wants to do.

Give God the glory!

 

[Chad]

Hi family. Posting from my phone here, without scrolling through all the pages and posts, as soon as I saw the title this came to mind...

Acts 20:35
In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give thanto receive.’ ”

 

[Simon]

Amadeus2,

Yes, the ot context was Malachi chastising the priests for robbing God.

How can we make this relevant to us today, or what would God say to us through this passage?

Well it wouldn't be about tithing because that system was as OT as sacrifices, burnt offerings and the jubilee years. Unless you think God also wants us not to work every 7 years, to make burnt offerings, and to redistribute all property every 50 years etc...

Perhaps the modern message is that God will judge his people who steal from widows and the poor, and this is as if you are stealing from God. Instead we should help and support the poor, for when you give to the poor you give to God.

 

[amadeus2]

Amadeus2,

Yes, the ot context was Malachi chastising the priests for robbing God.

How can we make this relevant to us today, or what would God say to us through this passage?

Well it wouldn't be about tithing because that system was as OT as sacrifices, burnt offerings and the jubilee years. Unless you think God also wants us not to work every 7 years, to make burnt offerings, and to redistribute all property every 50 years etc...

Perhaps the modern message is that God will judge his people who steal from widows and the poor, and this is as if you are stealing from God. Instead we should help and support the poor, for when you give to the poor you give to God.

But even more important than providing material help to the materially poor is providing what we have from God spiritually to those who are spiritually hungry and thirsty:

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

What do we have to give to others that is better than material riches? If I were like Peter here, could I do what Peter did?

"Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk." Acts 3:6

The lame man was healed physically, but should we not have something more or better to offer those who are hungry and thirsty for God's righteousness? Are we not overflowing with the things of God, or if we are not, should we not be so overflowing so as to share as Jesus shared, directly or indirectly?

Mat 9:20 And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:
Mat 9:21 For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.
Mat 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Money is hardly what people should have on the top of their prayer list. My wife and I always give 10% plus, but is that not simply and only part of the alms of Matthew 6? There is more to alms than that and there is more to Jesus' words in that chapter as in prayer and fasting...

And then again:

"And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." I Cor 13:3

 

[Simon]

But even more important than providing material help to the materially poor is providing what we have from God spiritually to those who are spiritually hungry and thirsty:
...
Money is hardly what people should have on the top of their prayer list. My wife and I always give 10% plus, but is that not simply and only part of the alms of Matthew 6? There is more to alms than that and there is more to Jesus' words in that chapter as in prayer and fasting...

Of course salvation is more important than giving, but this thread is about tithing...

If you give 10 percent directly to the poor and needy, may God bless you.
But if you are giving 10 percent to pay for church staff salaries and a bank mortgage on a church building, then I hope you are wealthy enough that you don't miss the money at all and don't have any debt or any extended family in need.
And I hope you don't think you have earned God's favour in any way.

In honour of this thread:

Simon

 

[amadeus2]

Of course salvation is more important than giving, but this thread is about tithing...

If you give 10 percent directly to the poor and needy, may God bless you.
But if you are giving 10 percent to pay for church staff salaries and a bank mortgage on a church building, then I hope you are wealthy enough that you don't miss the money at all and don't have any debt or any extended family in need.
And I hope you don't think you have earned God's favour in any way.

In honour of this thread:

Simon

I do strive to surrender to God's will, but I also need help to surrender as I should. Shouldn't we surrender first in order to hopefully be led into a knowledge of God's will so as to know we are pointed in the right direction?

No, no salaries unless they are underwritten by God. All staff work is voluntary and done without payment expected or given. Our building was paid for completely a number of years ago. As to tithing per se, it is not a requirement for anyone in our group. Nothing is but to want to love God and His Word. A voluntary offering or a love offering may well be called a a tithe even if according to someone else's definition it may not be.

We may not always communicate well among ourselves, but if we are communicating well with God, isn't that not a good thing?

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Brethren,

It would appear that you are attempting to be on the same road.

I am reminded of this short song which might help in coming together.
Good Enough by Robert Evans

Bless you ....><>

 

[Simon]

A voluntary offering or a love offering may well be called a a tithe even if according to someone else's definition it may not be.

The church should always use a Biblical definition of the word tithe, any other definition is deception.
We all know that tithe means TENTH.
The constant use, actually misuse, of the word tithe by the church has caused a TENTH of your income to become the standard of church giving, regardless of whether you are rich or poor.

A more accurate Biblical definition of tithe, is an OT law requiring land owners and flock owners (the wealthy) to give a tenth of the increase of only flocks and crops to people who had no land.

Simon

 

[amadeus2]

The church should always use a Biblical definition of the word tithe, any other definition is deception.
We all know that tithe means TENTH.
The constant use, actually misuse, of the word tithe by the church has caused a TENTH of your income to become the standard of church giving, regardless of whether you are rich or poor.

A more accurate Biblical definition of tithe, is an OT law requiring land owners and flock owners (the wealthy) to give a tenth of the increase of only flocks and crops to people who had no land.

Simon

We should all strive not to put words into the mouths of others. Where I attend the only definitions accepted by all should be from the Bible, but probably at this moment not everyone at is exactly where they should be. Not every person is at the same point in his/her walk toward God and not every person is to be exactly the same part of the Body of Christ. Each member will have the function which God has assigned or..? Whether or not a person fits into such assignment may well depend upon his/her own willingness to surrender:

"Neverthless not as I will but as Thou wilt"!

But then as it is written in scripture: "every man is a liar". We will, each of us, continue to lie probably until we have completely overcome [if we ever do] as did Jesus.

How literal is the Bible? What is God telling us in any single verse? Is there ever more than one right answer according to God?

 

[Simon]

Here's my second attempt at a Biblical definition of the tithe:

An Old Testament law for people living in Israel, requiring land owners and flock owners (the wealthy) to give a tenth of the increase of only flocks and crops to people who had no land.

Is this inaccurate, or can anyone improve on this definition?

Thanks,
Simon

 

[KingJ]

Is Church Tithing an Abomination to God, or Unbiblical?

Tithing, as practiced by Christians, has no Biblical foundation; there's no support for giving 10% of your income to the church. The Bible's primary guidance is that we look after the poor.

Church tithes go here (approximately):
50% Staff salaries
30% Building
10% Missionary (salaries)
0.05% Direct help for the poor (if they're lucky)

Once you understand this, you may well find yourself asking:
Does God despise the church tithe?

Thoughts?

Nothing wrong with tithing. God ensured tithing was harshly enforced OT with the Levites as He wanted them to be taken care of. He did not want the Levites begging.

The only time we should have an issue with tithing is firstly, if we see the staff are living above average. Moderation is Christianity 101. Secondly, any teaching of testing God and scaring people with the OT curses are insane errors. Jews were not children of God. Children should give 0-100%. I am ok with 10% only as it is a fair / reasonable %.

11 tribes giving 10% equated to the Levites living on par with all the other tribes.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Nothing wrong with tithing. God ensured tithing was harshly enforced OT with the Levites as He wanted them to be taken care of. He did not want the Levites begging.

The only time we should have an issue with tithing is firstly, if we see the staff are living above average. Moderation is Christianity 101. Secondly, any teaching of testing God and scaring people with the OT curses are insane errors. Jews were not children of God. Children should give 0-100%. I am ok with 10% only as it is a fair / reasonable %.

11 tribes giving 10% equated to the Levites living on par with all the other tribes.

yes, there was nothing wrong with tithing.

In regards to your last paragraph, do you mean like 'having all things in common'?

Bless you ....><>

 

[KingJ]

In regards to your last paragraph, do you mean like 'having all things in common'?

No, just that they live a similar quality life to those in their community.

So if say for example a church receives more then required funds, they should draw their reasonable salaries and invest or donate the rest. Which many do do.