Is Hell just separation from God or a place of horrendous eternal punishment as the Bible states?

[Brother-Paul]

And our Lord said...

Peace be with you

 

[KingJ]

The you go again... Please go back and show us were I said God tortures!

God set up the standards of Hell, his standards, before creation, who are we to judge!

You said do not judge in a thread where people are saying God is wicked.

 

[Brother-Paul]

The devil doesn't torture people in hell.

Can I share this link, from the BlueLetterBible site which I feel explains Hell in a clear manner.

What Is the Place of the Punishment of the Wicked? (Hell)

If the soul, or spirit, of humans lives on, it must live somewhere. If they are going to suffer punishment for their sins, then this punishment must happen

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[Hekuran]

The Bible says our spirit never dies.

Hi @B-A-C

I've not come to any firm conclusion about the bibles teaching on the nature of hell myself...

I've scanned through all 650 or so mentions of spirit in the Bible and none of them says directly that our spirits must exist eternally. On the other hand none says clear that our spirit could cease to exist.

Did you have a particular passage in mind when you said the spirit never dies?

 

[B-A-C]

Did you have a particular passage in mind when you said the spirit never dies?

I have several, in fact I would like to answer this in 3 parts. But really I have a question first. When you read the following verses (over 40 of them have the phrase "eternal life")
What does eternal life mean to you?

Matt 19:16; And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?"
Matt 19:29; "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.
Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Mark 10:17; As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
Mark 10:30; but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.
Luke 10:25; And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
Luke 18:18; A ruler questioned Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
Luke 18:30; who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life."
John 3:15; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
John 3:16; "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:36; "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
John 4:14; but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."
John 5:24; "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 5:39; "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
John 6:27; "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."
John 6:40; "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:47; "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
John 6:54; "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:68; Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
John 10:28; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
John 12:50; "I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me."
John 17:2; even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.
John 17:3; "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Acts 13:46; Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Acts 13:48; When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
Rom 2:7; to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
Rom 5:21; so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:22; But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
Rom 6:23; For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Gal 6:8; For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
1 Tim 1:16; Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
1 Tim 6:12; Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
Tit 1:2; in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago,
Tit 3:7; so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1 Jn 1:2; and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
1 Jn 2:25; This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
1 Jn 3:15; Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 Jn 5:11; And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
1 Jn 5:13; These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 Jn 5:20; And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
Jude 1:21; keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

That is a lot of verses, and I don't expect you to analize everyone of them, but let us start with John 3:16;

John 3:16; "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

What does eternal life mean here? Does it mean something different in most of these other verses? It might be argued, these verses are for "the saved". Even so... they infer that a part of us lives forever.
What part of us do you think lives forever?

(I will get to the un-saved in the next part of my answer)

 

[Hekuran]

It's my understanding that the Greek word translated 'eternal' does not necessarily mean without end. It can just mean lasting, or of the age.

Paul of course also talks of immortality - and that clearly means never to die.

To me, the destiny for God's children is pretty clearly described in the Bible. But for those who've rejected God, I find the much less clear. So I'm seeking understanding rather than out to argue a case.

 

[B-A-C]

John 3:16; For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The word everlasting here is ...

Strongs Lexicons
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
Total KJV occurrences: 71

Thayers dictionary
1. Without beginning and end, that which has always been and always will be.
2. without beginning.
3. without end, never to cease, everlasting.

None of these definitions include a finite time period.
Some other verses to consider.

John 8:52; The Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, 'If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death.'

John 11:25; Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
John 11:26; and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"

John 6:51; "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh."
John 6:58; "This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever."

If the saved only lived for a finite time, what would be the difference between them and the unsaved? (in the context of eternal life)
I also have 5 or 6 verses about the "un-saved". Let us look at one here.

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

The word forever here, is the same root word used in John 3:16 (aion - vs - aionios)

αἰών
aiōn
ahee-ohn'
From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.
Total KJV occurrences: 128

It is also the same word used as "forever" in the two verses below.

Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

We also have...

Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Notice the contrast here.... eternal "life" or eternal "punishment"

 

[B-A-C]

So when the natural body body dies. The Bible says it returns to the dust from which it came. (about a dozen similar verses)
But it says after the natural, comes the spiritual.

1 Cor 15:44; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1 Cor 15:45; So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1 Cor 15:46; However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

It is not the physical body that lives forever,

 

[Hekuran]

John 3:16; For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The word everlasting here is ...

Strongs Lexicons
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
Total KJV occurrences: 71

Thayers dictionary
1. Without beginning and end, that which has always been and always will be.
2. without beginning.
3. without end, never to cease, everlasting.

None of these definitions include a finite time period.
Some other verses to consider.

John 8:52; The Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, 'If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death.'

John 11:25; Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
John 11:26; and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"

John 6:51; "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh."
John 6:58; "This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever."

If the saved only lived for a finite time, what would be the difference between them and the unsaved? (in the context of eternal life)
I also have 5 or 6 verses about the "un-saved". Let us look at one here.

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

The word forever here, is the same root word used in John 3:16 (aion - vs - aionios)

αἰών
aiōn
ahee-ohn'
From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.
Total KJV occurrences: 128

It is also the same word used as "forever" in the two verses below.

Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

We also have...

Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Notice the contrast here.... eternal "life" or eternal "punishment"

I'm looking for the answer to my question here and I don't see anything in these passages that confirms the idea that the spirit never dies.

 

[Brother-Paul]

When a saved believer dies, (prior to the Rapture), their spirit and soul goes to be with our Lord in the temporary Current Heaven and will be judged according to what we have done for Christ and the Kingdom, from the point of being born again to the first death. At Christ's final return in Glory, when the devil is defeated and all things are made new, we will have eternal life in the Eternal, New Heaven and New Earth.

When a none believer dies, their spirit and soul, will go to the temporary, current hell. They will await judgement at the Great White Throne judgement and will go away into eternal punishment. as quoted above in B-A-C's post. They are LOST Souls.

In His Love \o/

 

[complete]

Today we have two predominant Christian viewpoints on hell. One is the horrendous traditional Biblical view and the other a modern more merciful form of Hell. Which one is correct? The Traditional one is that Hell (Gehenna) is the second death and a place of fiery torment and weeping and gnashing of teeth. Ten thousand centuries will come and go, and not one day in Hell will have ended. In the amount of time it takes a new universe to expand and collapse, not a single evening in the furnace of Hell will have gone by.

In Hell, you’ll have nothing to do, and nothing to think about except your rebellious past and how you rejected your Creator, Lord and Saviour. In addition to all the unceasing and unspeakable pain you’ll be feeling, you will have the added despair of knowing that the life you lived in the flesh was completely in vain. You will be fully conscious and awake to experience a nightmare above any nightmare you ever experienced while alive. And just when you think you can’t take anymore, an eternity of suffering awaits you still.

Revelation 21:8 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulphur. This is the second death.”

Matthew 13:50 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Matthew 25:41 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 19:20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulphur.

In the future, when God judges the wicked angels along with evil humanity, then hell, (Gehenna) will become inhabited. At the moment Hell is empty. Of course for obvious reason this view is losing out in popularity. You can attend some churches for thirty years and not hear a peep about Hell. People are ashamed of this merciless idea. They are ready for something new, for what modern theologians think is a better take on Hell. They are championing the acceptance of what they consider to be a more merciful form of Gehenna, one that is more easily seen as being in tune with a warm and loving Jesus with outstretched arms of comfort and care.


We are being told by the new Christians to just forget what every unrefined Roman Catholic, Baptist, or Pentecostal preacher ever told you about Hell. Hell is not the polar opposite of heaven. It is just absence from God. The fires of Hell are figurative, and so is the actual suffering experienced. They are not really real. The suffering experienced in hell is just suffering in the mind (in the spirit mind) of a deceased unbeliever. As he passed into eternity, his body died while his spirit (and therefore consciousness) lived on, but now his soul was separated from God into the “blackness of darkness” of the absence of the Almighty (Jude 1:13).


It is as if Christians today are embarrassed about biblical hell.

Hello @Victor Van Heerden.

There is only one way to know what the Bible has to say upon any subject and that is to read what it says. The Translators when translating the Hebrew and Greek words, Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tartaroo, chose the middle English word, 'Hell', for it most closely resembled the meaning of those words, It mean't, 'To Hid Away', and was used for, 'The Place of the Dead'. With that knowledge in mind I searched the Scriptures. Looking up every occurrence of the word 'Hell' with that meaning in mind. I found that it is only the word Gehenna, used by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, that refers to fire and judgment, and that only when referring to the fires of judgment that will be in operation at the end of the age. Tartaroo, is only used once, and refers to the place of imprisonment for those angels who fell in the days before the flood, in Noah's day. Sheol and Hades, is also translated, 'grave' (or gravedom) and 'pit'. I looked up every usage, and I found nothing about eternal conscious punishment, or of the 'Hell' that Greek philosophy has introduced, and which is taught by tradition.

* Death, Hell and the grave are thrown into the lake of fire at the end of the age: so, the lake of fire is not hell itself, either, as some say.

* Man does not have an immortal soul, for 'the soul that sinneth it shall die'. When God formed man from the dust of the ground, He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul. When the breath of life (or spirit) leaves the living soul, then death occurs, and man becomes a dead soul. The body goes back to the ground from which it was formed, and the spirit (or breath of life) goes back to God who gave it. There is no life apart from resurrection. ' This mortal must put on immortality'

* There is no consciousness in death: this is the testimony of Scripture (Ecclesiates 9:10). Only the power of the resurrection can raise mankind to either judgement or life. at the last day. Until the power of the resurrection is exercised, in God's time, the dead 'in Christ' are reckoned by God as being 'asleep in Him', awaiting resurrection.

In Christ Jesus
Chris