Is Hell just separation from God or a place of horrendous eternal punishment as the Bible states?

[Born Again 2004]

Of course God knew there would be some who chose to follow Satans hordes....If they accept Satan then it is just that they follow all the way...No? But what does the Word say? Sheol, Hell and the lake of fire was designed for Satan and his cohorts,.....That would tell me "Don't become one of Satan's cohorts..... So, my friend, I'm speaking English....Please read it in the same language.

He knew billions of years, from the very creation and I love him first, he just happens to be omnipotent!.

 

[B-A-C]

Yes, I feel torture is wrong and wicked. As do 99% of the sane people on this planet.

Keep in mind, that's exactly where the majority of them are going to end up. Probably because they believe they same as you do.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Keep in mind, that's exactly where the majority of them are going to end up. Probably because they believe they same as you do.

God set up the standards of Hell, his standards, before creation, who are we to judge!

 

[KingJ]

Keep in mind, that's exactly where the majority of them are going to end up. Probably because they believe they same as you do.

So, you are ok with serving a God that you believe will be wicked to the unsaved. Or do you not see torture as wicked?

I cannot believe one who knows scripture as well as you do pick scriptures on hell in isolation to other pertinent verses needed for context. Espouse that '''holy'''' = wicked.

 

[KingJ]

God set up the standards of Hell, his standards, before creation, who are we to judge!

Did God give us the knowledge of good and evil? Yes He did Gen 3:22.

Does God say He is good? Yes He does Psalm 136:1.

Is torture something you would expect a good person to do. No. Unless you are so lost and corrupt that you think like an Islam extremist.

Who are we to judge???? God....wants....us ....to be His bride. To accept Him as scripture defines Him. But yet you see God as a chameleon? He lays down His life for us, shows us the greatest act of love John 15:13, tells us to love our enemies Matt 5:44, tells us He is light with no darkness 1 John 1:5.....but yet you believe He is in fact a wicked being who utterly hates His enemies. Torture is evidence of outright darkness. If you don't believe me, come visit me, I will throw you in a brazen bull and cook you for three hours.

 

[KingJ]

Of course God knew there would be some who chose to follow Satans

Thank you. So, when God made hell.....he knew it was for humans and angels. Thank you sir, I agree. So it is a case of ''I made my house for my wife....and my kids''. IE Not just my wife, as I planned kids.

 

[B-A-C]

yet you believe He is in fact a wicked being who utterly hates His enemies.

If you want to think He is wicked that is up to you. But the Bible clearly states God will put people in hell, and they will be tormented forever and ever. There is no way around that. There are no scriptures that say otherwise.
Was God wicked when He rained fire on Sodom and Gomorrah? Was God wicked when He struck down Herod? Was He wicked when He struck down Ananias and Sapphira? Was He wicked when all of mankind drown in a flood?
Was He wicked when He opened up the earth and let thousand of people fall alive into it? Was He wicked when He closed the red sea on Pharaoh's soldiers and chariots? Was He wicked when David's first son with Bathsheba died?
Was He wicked when every first born male of the Egyptian died? Was He wicked when all of Job's family died? Was He wicked when He "was pleased to crush" Jesus. Was He wicked for putting the (fallen) angels in the punishment of eternal fire?
Is He going to be wicked when the demon scorpions come and torture non-believers for 5 months? Was He wicked when the rich man was in torment and agony in the flames of hell? Was He wicked for hating Esau?
Was He wicked for telling the Jews to stone unruly children and adulterers? Was He wicked for having the priests kill thousands (millions?) of animals for sacrifices through the generations?

If you think the answer is yes to any of those questions... then feel free to think He will be wicked when casts Satan and his followers into the Lake of fire to be tormented forever and ever.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Did God give us the knowledge of good and evil? Yes He did Gen 3:22.

Does God say He is good? Yes He does Psalm 136:1.

Is torture something you would expect a good person to do. No. Unless you are so lost and corrupt that you think like an Islam extremist.

Who are we to judge???? God....wants....us ....to be His bride. To accept Him as scripture defines Him. But yet you see God as a chameleon? He lays down His life for us, shows us the greatest act of love John 15:13, tells us to love our enemies Matt 5:44, tells us He is light with no darkness 1 John 1:5.....but yet you believe He is in fact a wicked being who utterly hates His enemies. Torture is evidence of outright darkness. If you don't believe me, come visit me, I will throw you in a brazen bull and cook you for three hours.

You are missing the point! Who are we to say , inevitabley, what God does or doesn't do. Not until soon will we know him as well as he knows us. You are painting yourself in a corner.

 

[B-A-C]

"Spanking" is no longer legal in this country. It is considered torture. But here's what God's word says.... Is God wicked?

Prov 23:13; Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.
Prov 13:24; He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.
Prov 22:15; Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.

Lev 20:27; 'Now a man or a woman who is a medium or a spiritist shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.'"
Lev 24:23; Then Moses spoke to the sons of Israel, and they brought the one who had cursed outside the camp and stoned him with stones. Thus the sons of Israel did, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.
Num 15:36; So all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

 

[KingJ]

You are missing the point! Who are we to say , inevitabley, what God does or doesn't do. Not until soon will we know him as well as he knows us. You are painting yourself in a corner.

You are a Christian and you don't know God? Is God's nature going to ''surprise'' you when you meet Him?

You are marrying...someone....now....that...you don't know. Born again, you did not think before you posted did you?

 

[KingJ]

"Spanking" is no longer legal in this country. It is considered torture. But here's what God's word says.... Is God wicked?

Prov 23:13; Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.
Prov 13:24; He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.
Prov 22:15; Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.

Speaking is torture? Ok BAC. I tell you what. You torture me by speaking to me for ten hours. I will torture you by '''like you presume God will do'', place you in a brazen bull and cook you for ten hours.

Deal? Sin is sin. Torture is torture. Cough cough.

 

[KingJ]

Prov 23:13; Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.
Prov 13:24; He who withholds his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.
Prov 22:15; Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.

We discipline our children. God disciplines us. The unsaved are not His children. What is your point here? A hiding is torture? Maybe manhandling a kid to give them a hiding is, yes.

Lev 20:27; 'Now a man or a woman who is a medium or a spiritist shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.'"
Lev 24:23; Then Moses spoke to the sons of Israel, and they brought the one who had cursed outside the camp and stoned him with stones. Thus the sons of Israel did, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.
Num 15:36; So all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

Being stoned to death is graphic, but quick. A panel of Jewish elders would oversee sentencing and execution. They would''not'' allow the crowd to pick up small stones and throw one every ten minutes.

Graphic = God wants all to know He hates sin. Leave no doubt of it in anyone's mind.
Quick = God wants all to know He is 1. Good, 2. Loves sinners.

 

[KingJ]

If you want to think He is wicked that is up to you. But the Bible clearly states God will put people in hell, and they will be tormented forever and ever. There is no way around that. There are no scriptures that say otherwise.

The ''only'' scripture that speaks to what suffering takes place in hell / lake of fire is Luke 13:28. Can you show me another? Don't come with '''person so and so was taken to hell and saw monkeys biting people''.

Luke 13:28 People will weep and gnash their teeth because they look up and see God and the prophets and that they are cast out.

 

[B-A-C]

Being stoned to death is graphic, but quick. A panel of Jewish elders would oversee sentencing and execution. They would''not'' allow the crowd to pick up small stones and throw one every ten minutes.

Was it always quick? Did the first stone always do the job? Surely there were quicker ways to kill someone.
How long did it take Jesus to die on the cross? Was it quick? How long will those stung by the demon-scorpions suffer? Is it quick?

Rev 16:8; The fourth angel poured out his bowl upon the sun, and it was given to it to scorch men with fire.
Rev 16:9; Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.
Rev 16:10; Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became darkened; and they gnawed their tongues because of pain,
Rev 16:11; and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.

When the sun "scorches" men and they are covered with sores that hurt so badly "they gnawed their tongues because of pain".

God wants everyone to be saved. He has given people chances.... over and over again. He has been patient, He has been loving, He has been kind.
You could go to the priest, confess, and have an animal sacrificed. You could come to Jesus at any time. The world can still come to Jesus right now... today.
God sent His only Son to die for people. Every person. How much love is that? ...and now they are rejected Him... by the scores, by the millions... (millions are accepting Him as well)
I did all this to save you.... and now you're rejecting it?

The wrath of God will be poured out on the people "in full measure". I shudder to think of God full measure of wrath. Why is God trying to hard to save these people?
Because He knows the alternative will not be pleasant. Hell isn't a country club. The lake of Fire isn't a heated sauna.
The "brazen bull" will be a mild punishment for those who reject Jesus.

Your story has changed again... from God doesn't torture anyone... to now He just temporarily tortures them for a while.

 

[B-A-C]

Luke 13:28 span.bible { /*color: #D97070;*/ font-size: 16px; font-weight: 400; } span.bible a { /*color: #D97070;*/ /*background-color: #FFE9E9;*/ padding: 1px 4px; border-radius: 1px; } People will weep and gnash their teeth because they look up and see God and the prophets and that they are cast out.

Yes, they will be "cast out". They will wander around in sheol until the judgment. ...and then...

Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[KingJ]

Was God wicked when He rained fire on Sodom and Gomorrah?

Gen 19:27-28 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the Lord: And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace. God did not rain down fire and brimstone over a period of forty days. The smoke was high. Sodom looked like a furnace. It was a swift destruction.

Science has also proven that when being burnt the brain switches off. I may be a little out, but I recall one experiences only 15 seconds of pain as a result.

Was God wicked when He struck down Herod? Was He wicked when He struck down Ananias and Sapphira? Was He wicked when all of mankind drown in a flood?

No evidence of torture, all quick deaths.

Was He wicked when He opened up the earth and let thousand of people fall alive into it? Was He wicked when He closed the red sea on Pharaoh's soldiers and chariots? Was He wicked when David's first son with Bathsheba died? Was He wicked when all of Job's family died?

No evidence of torture, all quick deaths.

Was He wicked when every first born male of the Egyptian died?

Plagues come upon the wicked in an attempt by God to get them to repent. Note, the ten plagues on Egyptians increased in severity and the last was the one you quoted. I would have thought you would quote Revelations and the bowl judgments. If you read them, you will see that many verses end with ''and yet they repented not''. Crystal clear evidence why God sends plagues. He wants them to repent. Plagues are His last ditch attempt to get someone to repent. To get to heaven.

 

[Born Again 2004]

You are a Christian and you don't know God? Is God's nature going to ''surprise'' you when you meet Him?

You are marrying...someone....now....that...you don't know. Born again, you did not think before you posted did you?

What I think is that I have offended you and I am sorry. You are not dead yet and have no way of truly knowing God yet
I suggest you go back and read 1 CoR 13 again, especially verse 12.

 

[KingJ]

Was He wicked when He "was pleased to crush" Jesus.

Please see my post # 195 that speaks to this.

Was He wicked for putting the (fallen) angels in the punishment of eternal fire?

We don't yet know what the eternal fire is. God describes hell from His perspective. Just as He did earth to Adam and Eve. ''You will die''. They did not die. They did enter ''death' on a fairly nice and pleasant earth. In God's view and truthfully so, earth was HELL compared to Eden and His presence.

Is He going to be wicked when the demon scorpions come and torture non-believers for 5 months?

Please see the last paragraph in my post # 216

Was He wicked when the rich man was in torment and agony in the flames of hell?

Please see my post # 195 that speaks to this.

Was He wicked for hating Esau?

He did not ''hate'' Esau. Esau was not chosen.

Was He wicked for telling the Jews to stone unruly children

A panel of elders would judge the extremity. The children had to be disobedient at an extremity. If you do proper research on this you will also find that this stoning seldom if ever in a life time took place.

and adulterers?

Stoning was a quick death.

Was He wicked for having the priests kill thousands (millions?) of animals for sacrifices through the generations?

No, All quick deaths. No evidence of torture.

If you think the answer is yes to any of those questions... then feel free to think He will be wicked when casts Satan and his followers into the Lake of fire to be tormented forever and ever.

Tormented can be as you said '''someone talking to you''. As Christians we can have a very good idea of what torment they will be in. Imagine your past sins playing on your mind. No forgiveness / blood of Jesus to wash them away.

Then think on why people weep and gnash their teeth when they look up Luke 13:28. They look up and see a GOOD God and good people. They look at those around them and they see bad people. People who never want to repent.

 

[Brother-Paul]

The New Jerusalem does indeed have physical measurements...

Rev 21:10; And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11; having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper.
Rev 21:12; It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel.
Rev 21:13; There were three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west.
Rev 21:14; And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15; The one who spoke with me had a gold measuring rod to measure the city, and its gates and its wall.
Rev 21:16; The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width; and he measured the city with the rod, fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal.
Rev 21:17; And he measured its wall, seventy-two yards, according to human measurements, which are also angelic measurements.

However given how much of the earth's surface is covered with water currently, and the height of the New Jerusalem ( approx 1,450 miles) or about 3,375,000,000 cubic miles.

All of the continents together (not counting Antartica) would be around 55,000,000 square miles.

The sizes quoted always fascinate me,

1500 miles length, width and height!

this is 16.6% of the way round the circumference of the world

Israel now is 290 miles north to south and 85 miles west to east

John 14:2-3 NKJV)
2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

And God will be the Light.

 

[KingJ]

Was it always quick? Did the first stone always do the job? Surely there were quicker ways to kill someone.

God wanted the death of mortal sinners to be graphic, clearly. Have you ever seen a stoning? Stoning is quick. There are quicker. There was death by being burnt at the stake too. But fact remains, being stoned to death for lets say five - ten minutes is WAAAYY better then three hours in a brazen bull. Or as Nero would do, three hours on a pike. The intention is key. With stoning among Jews, the intention was to throw the stones to kill. Not throw a stone to slowly kill.

How long did it take Jesus to die on the cross? Was it quick?

No, the beating was likely over an hour. Hanging on the cross was well into the evening. Probably a few hours. This was however not God's punishment. God said He would make Jesus as a lamb to the slaughter. IE Place Himself at the mercy of us. I have discussed my view in post # 195.

How long will those stung by the demon-scorpions suffer? Is it quick?.

No. But it is a plague. A plague is God's attempt to get mankind to grasp they need to make a choice to repent and take Him seriously. A plague is NOT a punishment for the wicked sold out to wickedness. Their punishment is a swift destruction, as per all the examples you gave above. Two completely separate issues.

The ebola virus is worse though. People can suffer for weeks. Good and bad people suffer to the ebola virus. It is due to the fall of Adam. There is a lot to discuss on this. I am still trying to wrap my mind around it. Even how wild dogs kill their prey by hunting and torturing them over hours. But this is a separate subject to God's punishment on those sold out to wickedness.

Rev 16:8; The fourth angel poured out his bowl upon the sun, and it was given to it to scorch men with fire.
Rev 16:9; Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.
Rev 16:10; Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became darkened; and they gnawed their tongues because of pain,
Rev 16:11; and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.

I feel I have explained the reason for plagues sufficiently.

The wrath of God will be poured out on the people "in full measure". I shudder to think of God full measure of wrath.

Don't be foolish and confuse plagues by God in an attempt to get people to repent with His swift destruction on those He knows will not repent. Are sold out to sin.

Why is God trying to hard to save these people?

You believe He sends plagues on some to get a sick kick out of it?

Gen 16:8-9 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.The fact that scripture says they repented not, tells us the purpose of the plague is ...to....get....them to repent.

Because He knows the alternative will not be pleasant. Hell isn't a country club. The lake of Fire isn't a heated sauna.
The "brazen bull" will be a mild punishment for those who reject Jesus.

The guy who invented the brazen bull was the first to be thrown into it. The king for whom he made it was so shocked at how wicked he was, that he threw him in it. Now, you are ok with the your God doing this to people? Like I have said, if you believe this is a fitting punishment, you fail terribly at judgement and are among those Paul rebukes in 1 Cor 6:1-9 for discernment worse then the unsaved. We must NOT miss represent God to the unsaved. You espouse God is wicked. Stop it BAC. You have been corrected in this thread. Exposed for cherry picking too.

Your story has changed again... from God doesn't torture anyone... to now He just temporarily tortures them for a while.

As I have said to you, you have clearly not read this thread. Have you read my post #195 yet? I summarize my view from scripture there.

My story has always been, God's wrath on those sold out to wickedness is swift. Plagues increase in severity and point to Him trying to get people to repent before they land up in eternal hell. As eternal separation from such a good God and His saints, is worse.

I am '''still'' waiting for you to provide a verse that speaks to why people suffer / are tortured in hell outside of Luke 13:28. Do you have one? Or do you just believe that fire = brazen bull = torture?