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Is Hell just separation from God or a place of horrendous eternal punishment as the Bible states?

What I think is that I have offended you and I am sorry. You are not dead yet and have no way of truly knowing God yet
I suggest you go back and read 1 CoR 13 again, especially verse 12.
You have not offended me. You have offended God. You said He is wicked. You said you are ok with that.

Have you read Rom 9? Paul makes the argument that God is God and whom are we to question Him. He says He can do whatever He wants. Calvinists swim and live in Rom 9. The point Paul is making is that God can do anything. But if you read the rest of Paul's books you see that he describes what exactly God chooses to do. He does what is right and good. He choose to not be partial. He can be. He chooses to not be wicked. He can be.

Now you come along and get tunnel vision off of ''God is omniscient and omnipotent''. A Christian is supposed to '''know'''' that God is as good as He is great. We FAIL, utterly FAIL, at our ''one'' Christian job of representing God to the unsaved if we teach Him as you and BAC are.

God is not wicked just because He is omnipotent.
God is good and omnipotent at the same time. He is righteous in ......ALL......His ways Psalm 145:17. Please read that verse a couple times before your next reply.
 
Yes, they will be "cast out". They will wander around in sheol until the judgment. ...and then...

Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
I don't think you read my post. Luke 13:28 says they weep and gnash teeth. It says they do this because they look up and see that they are cast out. I asked you to give any other scripture that also speaks to why they will be '''suffering''.

Now, note that Luke 13:28 does not say, they weep and gnash their teeth because their bum is on fire.

Also, if God is wicked as you espouse 'He will do worse then the brazen bull', then Luke 13:28 specifically should read ''they look up and rejoice as they see they are not with a wicked God, but they weep and gnash their teeth because they see this wicked God is going to put them in a brazen bull and worse for all eternity''.

You are so guilty of miss-representing God on hell BAC. I truly expected more discernment from you.
 
Keep in mind, that's exactly where the majority of them are going to end up. Probably because they believe they same as you do.
Wow! KJ Did you just tell our friend that he is going to hell for believing what he does? Really?
 
Thank you. So, when God made hell.....he knew it was for humans and angels. Thank you sir, I agree. So it is a case of ''I made my house for my wife....and my kids''. IE Not just my wife, as I planned kids.
Stop twisting my my words KJ. I did not say that! I said the Lake of fire and hell were designed for Satan! Not for humans, although humans do have the right to choose to go there....Read the Word. God made heaven for the bride of Christ and the rest of His children, He made the lake of fire for Satan ....His children are those who choose to follow him. They get to go with their father to his place..

I got my hand slapped for allegedly speaking to people as you are talking to B-A-C and me...Are you exempt from that same rule?
 
So, you are ok with serving a God that you believe will be wicked to the unsaved. Or do you not see torture as wicked?

I cannot believe one who knows scripture as well as you do pick scriptures on hell in isolation to other pertinent verses needed for context. Espouse that '''holy'''' = wicked.
If those people who reject Jesus go to the lake of fire and are tortured, who do you think is going to torture them? Not God! Their father will do the torturing....
 
You have not offended me. You have offended God. You said He is wicked. You said you are ok with that.

Have you read Rom 9? Paul makes the argument that God is God and whom are we to question Him. He says He can do whatever He wants. Calvinists swim and live in Rom 9. The point Paul is making is that God can do anything. But if you read the rest of Paul's books you see that he describes what exactly God chooses to do. He does what is right and good. He choose to not be partial. He can be. He chooses to not be wicked. He can be.

Now you come along and get tunnel vision off of ''God is omniscient and omnipotent''. A Christian is supposed to '''know'''' that God is as good as He is great. We FAIL, utterly FAIL, at our ''one'' Christian job of representing God to the unsaved if we teach Him as you and BAC are.

God is not wicked just because He is omnipotent.
God is good and omnipotent at the same time. He is righteous in ......ALL......His ways Psalm 145:17. Please read that verse a couple times before your next reply.
Pardon me, I never said he was wicked, that is blasphemy and sacrilegious . I have been here a very long time and just realized what a bad person you are. Spread your hatred and false lies all you want.... I am done..
Let's just say we agree to disagree!
 
The Bible says our spirit never dies. If you ever had a natural body... you have a spirit. Even if your body never left your mothers womb, you had a body for a little while.
All of us...everyone reading this has a body, a soul, and a spirit.

One day your body will die. Everyone's physical body will die some day. There are only 3 people in the Bible that never really died, in the physical sense that everyone else will die.
Enoch, Elijah, and Jesus. Jesus was dead for a few days (His body was). But now... even His body is alive.

Our soul is our mind, our will, our emotions, the things we want and desire. In a way this dies too.
When the Bible says we are putting our "self" to death, what it really means is... we are putting our wants and desires to death. When we are born again, we don't new physical body right at that moment to replace our old body.
I am old now, my body has wounds, scars, wrinkles, grey hairs, and bad eyes. I could use a new body, but just because I was born again... I didn't get a new body yet.

That leaves our spirit. Our spirit never really dies. It goes on forever and forever. Everyone spirit lives forever. It doesn't matter whether you are a Christian or not. Your spirit lives forever.
But lets define "living" here for a moment.
You are alive right now... you are in a good or bad situation. You are saved or unsaved, you are old or young, healthy, or... not so healthy. But you are alive.
One die you WILL die. All of us will. Everyone one of us will... but our spirit will live on.

Your spirit will end up one of a few places.
The Bible says some people will inherit the earth, it says some will rule and reign with Jesus on the earth. Some people believe they will go to heaven. The Bible mentions a place called the New Jerusalem.
These are places the saints will go. Those who are "saved" by faith in Jesus. The Bible says these people will get a "new" body someday. It says they will "live" forever. They have eternal life.

The Bible also speaks of sheol, hades, and the lake of fire.
Hell/hades is a temporary holding place. Even hell won't last forever... the Bible says eventually even hell itself will be thrown into the lake of fire. ( Rev 20:14; )
The Bible says one day everyone will be judged. Some believe Christians will not be, but even if this is the case.... the unsaved will certainly be.

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Some people... in fact the Bible appears to say the MAJORITY of people will go to hell and eventually the lake of fire.
The Bible calls the lake of fire the second death. But even here, you don't really die. Your spirit still lives, forever and ever, and ...ever.

The Bible says people here will feel pain. It says they will be in torment. It says they will be in agony. It says there will be gnashing of teeth.
They won't be gmashing their teeth because they aren't with God and the saints, they will be gnashing their teeth in pain. They have already been without God (in some cases a hundred years or more)
on this earth during their whole lifetime. They didn't gnash their teeth then... and that's not why they gnash their teeth now.

Hell and the Lake of fire are places of torment. Places or agony. The people who go there will still be alive... they will feel pain. ...forever.... and ever.

Rev 19:20; And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Not only will Satan and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire..... but whoever receives the mark of the beast, whoever chooses to follow Satan... will burn forever and ever.

Matt 5:29; And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Matt 18:9; And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.


But what you didn't receive the mark of the beast? What if you simply rejected Jesus?

Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

The Bible gives a special warning to people who add or take away scripture from the Bible... that includes all the verses above.

Rev 22:19; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

Your spirit doesn't die... even in hell.

Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The punishment is eternal.

Isa 66:24; "Then they will go forth and look On the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die And their fire will not be quenched; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind."
Mark 9:47; "If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell,
Mark 9:48; where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.


(NIV) where "'the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.'
(GNB) There 'the worms that eat them never die, and the fire that burns them is never put out.'
(GW) In hell worms that eat the body never die, and the fire is never put out.
(MSG) You're better off one-eyed and alive than exercising your twenty-twenty vision from inside the fire of hell.

The maggots that will feed on your corpse will never die... they feed on you forever (how can that be if you cease to exist at some point).. and the fire never goes out.
Even (fallen) angels face eternal punishment.

Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Anyone who disagrees with the verses above... is a false teacher, and believes a false doctrine.
 
All of us...everyone reading this has a body, a soul, and a spirit.
Its Spirit, Soul and body. That is the order scripture puts it.
We are Spirit and we have a soul and live in a body.

The Spirit and Soul can live outside the body but the body can not live without the Spirit and Soul.


Our soul is our mind, our will, our emotions, the things we want and desire. In a way this dies too.
When the Bible says we are putting our "self" to death, what it really means is... we are putting our wants and desires to death.
Soul is as you said, Mind, Will and emotions. That makes up our personality.

The soul does not die.
The soul stays attached to the Spirit.
Our flesh or old nature or human nature or carnal nature or the natural man is what we crucify daily.

We renew the mind which in return renews our Will and Emotions.

Blessings
 
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Pardon me, I never said he was wicked, that is blasphemy and sacrilegious . I have been here a very long time and just realized what a bad person you are. Spread your hatred and false lies all you want.... I am done..
Let's just say we agree to disagree!
When you say God tortures, it is saying He is wicked. Unless you can prove to me that torture is not wicked? Can you?

Understand that a Christian has ''one'' job. Properly represent God to the unsaved. When we make statements that imply He is wicked, we fail at our ''one'' job.
 
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If those people who reject Jesus go to the lake of fire and are tortured, who do you think is going to torture them? Not God! Their father will do the torturing....
Interesting theory. I like that you are defending God. But think further on it. A lot like your passage ''hell is made for angels'', if God does nothing about ''their father'' torturing them, He allows it.
 
I got my hand slapped for allegedly speaking to people as you are talking to B-A-C and me...Are you exempt from that same rule?
What specifically have I said that makes you say that? Disagreement is not rude. You posting the same scripture 50 times is rude. BAC telling me I am going to hell and am espousing demon theology for trying to defend God as good and not wicked, is rude.

None of it is reportable though. I would never report someone being rude to me. Heat in the kitchen is fine. It seems unavoidable as we are all stuck in our own dogma of sort. We must just be careful not to pass personal insults I guess.
 
A lot of water has gone under the bridge in this thread, I have briefly read over many posts, but I did pick up on a discussion with differences of opinion regarding whether heaven and hell are close to each other.

With that in mind, I add the following scripture that clearly tells us there is a chasm between the two. This is the only scripture I am aware of that allows a glimpse from one to the other,

Jesus had been speaking primarily to His disciples, but the Pharisees had been listening, and their response was anything but spiritual. So Jesus, being God and knowing all about heaven and hell shares this message, which we must note is about wealth and where it can lead.

Luke 16:19-31
The Rich Man and Lazarus

19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’
29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’
30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’
 
When you say God tortures, it is saying He is wicked. Unless you can prove to me that torture is not wicked? Can you?

Understand that a Christian has ''one'' job. Properly represent God to the unsaved. When we make statements that imply He is wicked, we fail at our ''one'' job.
The you go again... Please go back and show us were I said God tortures!
 
The first lie Satan ever told mankind was...

Gen 3:4; The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!

He has been telling that lie to people ever since. There are no consequences for disobeying God. God won't punish you.
 
The Bible says people here will feel pain.
False doctrine. It says they are in torment. Torment can be someone you don't like talking to you. There was a guy who dreamt monkeys were biting him in hell, are you quoting him?

It says there will be gnashing of teeth. They won't be gmashing their teeth because they aren't with God and the saints, they will be gnashing their teeth in pain.
False doctrine. ''Pain'' is your insertion. Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out

Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
The smoke of their torment will not be from pain. You state with certainty that it is smoke from fire burning them....

Do you also state ''they will be in darkness'' Matt 8:12 with the same certainty? The same ''as is'' reading. How will they be in darkness with all the fire?

Darkness is figurative for being surrounded by sinners / people who love to sin John 3:19. Likewise fire can just as easily be figurative for those with no rest. Their constant ''frustration'' from their predicament and reality can be the smoke.
 
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Isa 66:24; "Then they will go forth and look On the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die And their fire will not be quenched; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind."
Mark 9:47; "If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell,
Mark 9:48; where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.


(NIV) where "'the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.'
(GNB) There 'the worms that eat them never die, and the fire that burns them is never put out.'
(GW) In hell worms that eat the body never die, and the fire is never put out.
(MSG) You're better off one-eyed and alive than exercising your twenty-twenty vision from inside the fire of hell.

The maggots that will feed on your corpse will never die... they feed on you forever (how can that be if you cease to exist at some point).. and the fire never goes out.
Even (fallen) angels face eternal punishment.

Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Isa 66-23 tells us that the occasion is the millennium where people (with flesh) live on earth for a thousand years. We reign with Jesus during this period.
Isa 66:24 is therefore speaking to maggots feeding on the flesh of those who died in the tribulation. All who died rebelled.

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


I must say I find the verse in Mark 9:48 interesting. This is Jesus speaking and the preceding verse speaks to hell.

Do you believe they keep their flesh in hell? Our flesh that lives for two score and ten?

The worm that will be in hell will not be a maggot that eats flesh. If it is, then you must believe in annihilation. God utterly annihilates the wicked and the maggots eat their flesh as an eternal reminder to us. That is certainly a million times better belief then your eternal brazen bull belief.

I do believe in eternal torment. So I lean toward the worms having some use, being figurative or Jesus quoting Gehenna, the burning rubbish dump. A place outside Jerusalem that will house the dead flesh of the wicked in the millennium.

I certainly don't believe the absolute worst of ''feed on your corpse will never die''. What line from Jesus made you arrive at that conclusion? You like to dramatize and assume the absolute worst. You are adding to scripture what is not there.

Anyone who disagrees with the verses above... is a false teacher, and believes a false doctrine.
You are guilty of teaching that God has an insanely DARK SIDE to Him. That conflicts 100% with 1 John 1:5.

Then you insert your assumptions after scripture. That conflicts 100% with Rev 22:19

I would say that currently on earth there are probably a hundred wicked people that will be ok with seeing another being cooked alive for three hours in a brazen bull. I will bet that there is nobody on earth right now that will be ok with cooking someone in a brazen bull for a hundred years. Yet you believe God will do it for eternity. I cannot think of a more epic miss-representation of God.

I want you to meditate on the fact that the guy who invented the brazen bull was the first to be thrown in it as the king for whom he made it was so appalled by it.
 
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A lot of water has gone under the bridge in this thread, I have briefly read over many posts, but I did pick up on a discussion with differences of opinion regarding whether heaven and hell are close to each other.

With that in mind, I add the following scripture that clearly tells us there is a chasm between the two. This is the only scripture I am aware of that allows a glimpse from one to the other,

Jesus had been speaking primarily to His disciples, but the Pharisees had been listening, and their response was anything but spiritual. So Jesus, being God and knowing all about heaven and hell shares this message, which we must note is about wealth and where it can lead.

Luke 16:19-31
The Rich Man and Lazarus

19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’
29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’
30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’
The rich man was in Hades. Abrahams bosom was on the other side of a divide in Hades. It was not heaven.

This divide in Hades should teach us that even in '''death / outside God's presence'' there can be places of torment and places of no torment.
 
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