Is Jesus really God?

[Brother Mike]

I understand.

B-A-C, I fully understand what your saying.

I have not ignored any scriptures, I posted ones that suggest they are the same being. but we are back to this again.

Each Part has a different function. So does a family in Which we are the similitude of God. God had a son, we are also designed to have sons.

When Jesus won the victory on the cross, God gave all things back to Jesus.

The issue I have is that to me, God's Word is simple. God gave something back to his son Jesus, he did not give something back to himself. Jesus was a man so prayed like the rest of us, (to himself?)

Or that part he left in Heaven? An egg is not really an egg if all the pieces are scatted everywhere.

I can't be settled to think that God split himself up and all the parts being one would have to give things to each other, or pray to each other. God is not that confused, in my opinion.

If I see scripture though like.

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

God spoke in the last days through his son, and appointed his son to be heir of all things by which God also made everything for him, his son.

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

We are Heirs of God, everything he has, we share it with his son.

It takes a tremendous stretch for a reasonible person to say this scriptures really means just God, and one of God's parts that he calls son.

God so loved the World he gave his ONLY Begotten Son.

The Son came from God, The son has always been with God, The son is the one God spoke to when he said lets create man in OUR image.

Jesus has always been here and with God.

God is just not mumbling to himself and pretending he has a son. The son is real!

We have a few scriptures that point to Jesus being God Himself. Just point to, as Father and son can be as one, and operate as one though separate. They can agree as one. They operate the family business together as Jesus said, I must be about MY father's business, He had no identity crises.


Jesus also said we are one in him.......... That don't make us God brother.

We have a whole ton of scriptures that say God actually does have a son, that is not him. Created by God. A son that shared with God from the Start, A son as the scripture says God made and all things were created by.

That fits a whole lot better, it explains who Jesus was praying to, and Who we are joint heirs with.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[B-A-C]

I am in a men's Bible study group. I am in a motorcycle group. I am on an architecture committee where I work. The only thing these groups have in common with each other.. is me. (oops not entirely true, one guy in my motorcycle group is also in my Bible study, but you get the idea).

Jesus is the head of the church.
Jesus is a part of the trinity.
Jesus is Jewish in human form.

All these things that Jesus is, aren't mutually inclusive.

Because he is a part of the trinity doesn't mean that I am.
Because he is a part of the church body doesn't mean that I'm not.

context, context, context.

 

[David777]

Hmmmm....

Hello BroMike.

Focus your beadies on the following passage.

5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,

6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant,
and coming in the likeness of men.

8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and
became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him
the name which is above every name,

10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven,
and of those on earth, and of those under the earth," (Philippians 2:5-10)

You asked whether Jesus prayed to himself?

If you read the blue line above you will notice that Jesus was aware that HE was God.
In this human form He humbled Himself. This is beyond the realm of debate.

In answer to your question, of course Jesus was praying to His Father
and to Himself. The Son and the Father are the same, they are God.

God can be in more than one place at a time by definition.

You are restricted by your own mind, this is revelation we are dealing with.

Do you honestly think you can understand the Trinity?

Please Mike, we are new creations, spiritual beings.

We have been released from the futility of thinking.

We have the Holy Spirit that teaches us all things.

Reason is useless and a hindarance in the kingdom of God.

 

[s.i.e.]

(Remembering God is just a German word)

God's Name was not used here being 'ĕlôhı̂ym, but instead 'el. Pronounced Ale.

Which still means God.

uhh...wow. Really. That's brilliant.

All this time, and I never knew that God is just a German word made up by the same folks who brought us our Ale. And moreover, you say both things the same way??

That's gonna take me a while to sort through the implications...but I'm liking it!!

 

[Brother Mike]

Thank you everyone!

Thank you brothers for you time and efforts. I fully understand the man made word Trinity, it's much like adding "God's elect" to everything to prove a belief system.

The issue goes further than what we can explore, as it focuses really on what God means. Since we are unable to cross over from the mind set of this Trinity Doctrine, I guess it can wait for another time.

God is a German word. God is a Spirit, making God a Class, not a title.

5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,

6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

Not God, but a form of God, Not God, but equal with God.
We were also told to think this...... That brings another discussion as Jesus called us gods also. We are created in the image or form of God, we are a similitude of God.

That don't make us God the creator though.

God can be everywhere, I agree.

Jesus did pray to the father, but we have to add to the word he prayed to himself............ I am not doing that.

The scripture says, Jesus was God manifested in the Flesh.
So, would be no reason to pray as he was already God. Unless Jesus being filled with the Spirit of God is what this scripture is talking about, then it's no different than any Spirit filled believer, and He would then have to pray.

Jesus said I must be about my fathers business. He was very clear about having a father. He had many opportunities to not be deceptive and tell us he was really God, and not the son. He did not. He said if you have seen me, you have seen the father, and I and the father are one. He also said we are one in him, and I am not the creator. Also the Son can be just like his father.

So, I have to suspend my ability to reason and believe Jesus was being deceptive, and that part of God is really Jesus (Like the yoke being part of an egg) and that God gave himself things calling it his son, when it was really him, and a whole bunch of scriptures simply should be ignored or changed.

God has to mediate between himself and man, because He has a split personality, and confused on what choices he might make, talking to himself?

I guess I am not able to just walk across that bridge and say that it's a spiritual concept, so it makes sense.

I feel we presented some reasonable arguments, but I have to give this a rest and allow others to hopefully come and share their concerns.

Your are all the blessed and thank you again..

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Giggles4God]

I just have one question for you Brother Mike.

Why is Jesus being God such a huge problem for you?

I might not be able to grasp everything that God does, but I can at least understand that Jesus is God.

No, the word trinity isn't in the Bible, but the concept is. The God-head three in one...the triune God. Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

I believe Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. Might be hard to get a hold of with our finite minds that can't put our hands around eternity or touch God. I know it is mind blowing for me at times.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

It specifically says great God and Savior Jesus Christ. There are no commas!

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas,[d] because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

So, two scriptures that says Jesus is God. (Or did I miss something??) Those who believe otherwise are you more intelligent or know something that these disciples didn't?

I will ask you again...Is Jesus God? Is Jesus being God a problem for you? If so, why?

I guess I don't see it. Maybe I just stepped into a conversation I have no place in coming into, but I don't care right now.

All I do know is what I believe. Jesus is God. End of story.

 

[gdemoss]

Great question! Is Jesus really God? To answer this question requires a definition of God as it is used in the question.

If your asking if Jesus is God the Father then the answer is no.

If your asking if Jesus is God as in was Jesus' original form when he came into being a separate being from his Father then the answer is yes.

There is no point or need for there to be more than one God. God the Fathers purpose in begetting a son can clearly be seen by the purposed end of Jesus within the creation. Jesus was born to become part of the creation that he himslef was raised to create, enter and subdue unto himself but in the end to deliver up to the Father to be God over.

I don't fault anyone for getting confused about this issue. Reading the scripture can be quite confusing. For example, all of the times that Jesus uses the sacred "I AM" and things happen like 900 or so soldiers falling to the ground or people picking up stones to stone him for claiming to be God. What gets overlooked is that when these things happened God the Father was speaking through his son. Just like Hebrews tells us he did through him and the prophets. Go back and read the prophets and see that there are times when a prophet is speaking words from God that come in third person and at some point transfer into God speaking through the prophet in first person. It is a difficult concept to understand but one that will help you see clearly, if you will study it.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Was Jesus the Word of God? Revelation 19 clearly declares it to be true. Let us look at the above from John again.

In the beginning was the Word, - Jesus was there in the beginning of all things.
and the Word was with God - Jesus was with the Father.
and the Word was God - Jesus was in the form of God just as God the Father was.
the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us - Jesus left off being in the form of God to become a servant in the form of man.

When it says "And God said, 'let there be light.'" simply put Jesus was speaking.

Did Jesus ever cease being God? Yes and No. Jesus ceased being in the 'form' of God. To understand what Jesus left behind when he came to earth, one would need to know what he possessed previous to the move. The bible isn't exactly clear just what abilities, knowledge, understanding or power that Jesus possessed so we cannot say with any certainty what he left behind. Much human reasoning could be used to make any position that one desires work if they added enough fluff to prop up their point but that is pointless. We must stick to what the scripture does say to remain in the realm of truth.

We see that, as a man, Jesus had to learn and mature like everyone else. He grew in favor with God the Father and man. He spent 30 years as nothing more than a mere mortal who knew that God was his father. What he never lost was the image of his Father. His character was just like his Fathers in every way. Around the age of 30, Jesus was baptized by John and at that point he received the Holy Spirit and power from the Father who openly testified of whom he was by a voice from Heaven. He then began a public ministry where God the Father was in him reconciling the world to himself. Jesus was the walking, living, breathing temple of the living God.

Upon Jesus' crucifixion, the Holy Spirit of God the Father left Jesus to die a death upon the tree. "Why hast thou forsaken me?", he asked. Jesus gave up the ghost or died his physical death and three days later was resurrected unto life by God the Fathers Holy Spirit. Through this operation of God he was made perfect and ascended above all thrones, dominions and principalities becoming the single greatest person of the creation. Translated into the form of the Son of God. The same hope that we all have who follow after him.

God the Father made Moses a god unto Pharaoh. He called them gods who he first gave his Word to, as his Word gave them power and dominion. The sons of Gods are gods in their own right as God the Father through his Holy Spirit gives them power as he sees fit. As our brother Paul wrote saying the kingdom of God is not in word and deed but in power, and he would know the power of them who thought they were something. It is as Hebrews six says about those who had tasted of the power of the world to come. This power can be seen when God honors the words you say such as when Paul spoke to the sorcerer and told him that he would be blind for a season, and immediately it came to pass. Even so God the Father continually made Jesus his Son a god unto all who were around him through validating all of his words that he spoke.

The difference between us and Jesus as the sons of God can be seen in the indwelling of God the Father. The bible tells us that the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in him bodily. The word Godhead simply means divinity. What this means is that Jesus was indwelt by all seven of the spirits that proceed out from God the Father. The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Wisdom, the Spirit of knowledge, the Spirit of understanding, the Spirit of Council, the Spirit of the fear of the Lord and the Spirit of Power, which are the seven spirits that are before the throne of God. We are made a habitation of God through the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is easily confused as a separate person of an imagined trinity because of the large roll that God the Fathers Holy Spirit plays in everything. But it is merely God the Fathers way of dwelling in his creation. You don't have some third ranked person of a trinity dwelling within you but God the Father himself through the manifestation of the Spirit. It is God himself that teaches us and guides us into all truth through his own Spirit that he has poured out upon all flesh. As he said, we don't have to ask another to teach us about him, as all who are his know him, from the least to the greatest. This is why we make disciples of Christ and not of ourselves but impress upon others who are yet carnal to be followers of us as we are of Christ, travailing them in birth until Christ be formed in them and they begin fellowship with the Father intimately knowing him.

I understand that many who read this will object to the concepts I speak of. I once did as well, until God the Father taught me my errors. Brother Mike has been given a lot of truth concerning these aspects of God and it would do others well to consider the things he has said and do two things with them. One, take them to God the Father in prayer and ask him to show you the truth (mind you that he won't unless you have repented of sin and turned toward him, picking up your cross and denying yourself daily). Two, go back to scripture like the Bereans to see if the things that are said are true. Be careful not to be deceived by what a single verse apparently says but learn to understand those verses within the context of the entire book that they are in so that you are not swayed by a false understanding of them.

God the Father is the complex one, for in him we live and move and have our being. Whatever your doing your doing it inside of God the Father. And Jesus is his Only Begotten Son. Begotten not made.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

 

[macca]

Is Jesus really God

Having waded through much of what is expounded here in this posting, it seems to me I see much semantics here.
The person of the Godhead that became Jesus is as fully God as Father and Holy Spirit are.
I don't believe it is necessary to repost all the verses pertaining to this fact.
The fact that the "Word" became flesh gives us a conundrum that our feeble minds struggle to comprehend. A human being fully God and at the same time fully man?
To which do you refer to in what statement?
Phil 2: 5-11 shows us that The person of the Godhead that became Jesus laid aside His glory and lived in the power of Holy Spirit, demonstrating how we can follow His example.
Because He lived as a man takes nothing away from His Deity, unless we want to suggest He isn't the saviour we needed, and His sacrifice wasn't God dying in our place.
Is the Person of the Godhead that became Jesus, God? Certainly; does that mean that Jesus is God? I believe it does.
If you consider that this Person of the Godhead became Jesus, how can you believe He isn't God Himself?

 

[Brother Mike]

Why is Jesus being God an issue?

Giggles4God

I just have one question for you Brother Mike.

Why is Jesus being God such a huge problem for you?

I might not be able to grasp everything that God does, but I can at least understand that Jesus is God.

Because any correct doctrine will stand the test of all scriptures, and specific scriptures that pertain only to support a doctrine will not be able to be explained in any other way that would be unreasonable.

Tit 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

Who made the plan of salvation? God. Who sacrificed Jesus? God. Who brought the grace whereby we may be saved? God.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God .............................................and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

What is the blessed hope? Grace, salvation, God's Plan.

And our Saviour Jesus................. God, and Jesus.. Father and Son.
Two.

Joh 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Jesus said He does nothing of himself. But as his father taught him.

Joh 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

Now, if Jesus were God, only able to do what he see's his father Do, He could do nothing as He would have no father.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Jesus said I do nothing on my Own...............

Giggles

So, two scriptures that says Jesus is God. (Or did I miss something??) Those who believe otherwise are you more intelligent or know something that these disciples didn't?

Thank you for sharing, and nobody said Jesus is not God, if He is God's son, then by class itself Jesus is God. Jesus also called us gods.

I can also give you 30 or more scriptures you would not be able to explain as opposed to two of your scriptures, you come off as wise, and you have no idea.

So since We are unable to actually defend this trinity doctrine properly. I can for you post all the scriptures that may suggest Jesus and God are one and the same, then I will post all the scriptures that say Jesus is the son of God, and not God.

We can weigh them, then I will give a reasonable explanation of this Trinity doctrine scriptures, Without adding words or using eggs, or any other mumbo jumbo.

You do the same for the vast many I post, that Jesus and God are not the same person, but make up the Godhead as Father and son, not just God alone.

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Who overcomes the World? Those that believe Jesus is really God?

Please come prepared.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Giggles4God]

Sorry I didn't come prepared enough for you.

At least God is more forgiving.

I will step out now.

*note to self* Don't get into theological discussions. I'm too much of an idiot to understand! What's worse is that Christians make me feel like this more than any others.

I'm sorry, Chad. I'm hurt and upset.

 

[Brother Mike]

Prepared.

Giggles4God:

Sorry I didn't come prepared enough for you.

At least God is more forgiving.

I will step out now.

*note to self* Don't get into theological discussions. I'm too much of an idiot to understand! What's worse is that Christians make me feel like this more than any others.

I'm sorry, Chad. I'm hurt and upset.

Your brought two scriptures that have already been discussed way back, you have not answered the few I posted. We already have seen opinion all through this Thread. I Already know you can't answers the ones I posted ahead of time.

To some this discussion is about Salvation itself, and I yet see NO answers to my scriptures. If something holds water, it holds water with no Holes.

No need to be upset, If your doctrine hold up, it will explain all scripture posted.

I asked to come prepared in accordance with 2 tim 2:15 Study to show yourself approved, ..........rightly dividing.
I would also like to point out Chad's thread on the same subject, Chad has some many good points about Jesus and God being the same.

http://www.talkjesus.com/evidence-bible-prophecy/15467-bible-verses-stating-jesus-god.html

After thinking and praying about this, I see that some feel strongly in what they believe but need more scripture knowledge to support it. I just wanted all those scriptures I posted "Explained" It is not my intent to make anyone feel bad. I just want strong Christians that can firmly support what they believe. This world is a wicked place, and we need to be soldiers.

I am staying out of this until scripture I posted actually gets addressed.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[TouchTestimony]

hohohohoho. a can of worms, eh?

 

[Brother Mike]

Reading Chad's Article.

If you read Chad's Article here about the same topic.

http://www.talkjesus.com/evidence-bible-prophecy/15467-bible-verses-stating-jesus-god.html

Chad's Article have some great scriptural support that Jesus is in fact God, if you just look at those scriptures.

At the end of Chads thread there were some questions nobody could address.
Jaareshiah
<table class="tborder" id="post150213" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="1" width="100%" align="center"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td class="alt1" id="td_post_150213" height="100%" valign="top">

Of understanding the trinity, the late Catholic Cardinal John O'Conner (1920-2000) said: "We know that it is a profound mystery, which we don't begin to understand." And the late Pope Paul II (1920-2005) spoke of the "inscrutable mystery of the trinity". Thus, as noted by these religious figures, the trinity is a maze of confusion, for it does not add up to what the Bible really teaches.

Here are some questions to ponder.

(1) Why is the Father always spoken of as having sons (2 Cor 6:18) and never "brothers", whereas Jesus is spoken of as having "brothers" (Matt 25:40; Heb 2:17, Ps 22:22) but never sons ?

(2) Why does the Bible always show Jesus as the Son of God (Matt 16:16; John 20:31) and not as God ?

(3) Why does the Bible teach that the Son, Jesus, receives the "kingdom" (Dan 7:13,14; Luke 22:29; Isa 9:6) and never God as receiving it ?

(4) Why is Jesus, the Son, always spoken of being "sent forth" by the Father (John 4:34; 7:16,28,29) but never God the Father as being "sent forth" by the Son ?

(5) Why did Jesus always pray to his Father and not the Father to the Son ?(Matt 6:9; 11:25; 26:39,42,44)

(6) Why is Jesus called God's "servant", but never is God called Jesus "servant" ?(Isa 42:1; Matt 12:18; Acts 3:13,26; Acts 4:27,29)

(7) Why did Jesus call himself the "firstborn of all creation", at Revelation 3:14, but of God, he is from "everlasting to everlasting", at Psalms 90:2 ?

(8) Why was Jesus "exalted to the right hand of God"(Acts 2:33; Phil 2:9; 1 Pet 3:22), but never has God been exalted to the right hand of Jesus ?

(9) Why is Jesus spoken as the "Lamb of God"(John 1:29), but never God as the ' Lamb of Jesus' ?

(10) Why is Jesus always called the Son (Matt 3:17; 17:5), but never the Father, and why is God always called the Father (2 Cor 1:3; Eph 1:3,17) but never the Son ?

(11) Why is Jesus taught by the Father (John 7:28), but the Father is taught by no one ?(Isa 40:13)

</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2">
</td> <td class="alt1" align="right">
</td></tr></tbody></table>I could add a bunch more to that, but those are good for a start.

If this Trinity Doctrine made up by man is true, then all these get fit perfectly into that Trinity Doctrine. I can explain all the scriptures for the trinity Doctrine and prove Jesus is the son of God.

Nobody answered Chad's post and explained these, and I have the same issue in this thread.

So, that makes the Trinity Doctrine suspect in it's validity, and hence it's time to grow and change.

I also feel that just making Jesus as God, discredits Jesus as the Son, and rightful Heir to all things. I also feel it dishonors God in removing His only begotten son out of the picture by which Salvation came to all men.

Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

You must believe Jesus is the Son of God for Salvation, It did not say believe that Jesus is just really God, but that God does have an actual Son he loved and trusted all things with.

Jesus is Lord.

 

[Kit Carson]

I dunno about all these discussion or the reason for them.

To me it is very simple.
In the beginning God created us, in the image of us. Not of one but in the image of us. Is us one??

God is God and will always be God.
Jesus is his son and took the flesh form of man through spiritual conception in the human womb. He prayed to his Father God, as he was a man of flesh and subject to all we are subject too. I am sure God gave him a highly discerning spirit as a help mate, maybe even the holy spirit as I feel this is a separate spirit also. But Jesus prayed to God the Father as God is the Father and the answer to all.

God send and gave his son for us. Jesus went though hell on earth for us , for understanding and a way for us to see and relate to him.

It is fairly simple to me, God is one, Jesus is one, the holy spirit is another. It is of the us, not of the one.

Kit

 

[Wilvan]

The word God is translated from the Hebrew word 'Elohim' which is plural. God is singular but is composed of more than one being, just like the word 'family' or 'government', it is singular but composed of one or more people. In the God Family there is God the Father and God the Son. Notice in Genesis when Adam and Eve had eaten the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, the members of the God family were talking with each other:

Gen 3:22 <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-78"></sup>And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Unbeknown to many Christians, God's plan is for us to become members of the 'Elohim' in the future. When we are given the gift of eternal life, we will be higher than the angels, we become members of the God Family!

 

[B-A-C]

TJ won't let me quote a quote...

Originally posted by Bro Mike.
Here are some questions to ponder.

(1) Why is the Father always spoken of as having sons (2 Cor 6:18) and never "brothers", whereas Jesus is spoken of as having "brothers" (Matt 25:40; Heb 2:17, Ps 22:22) but never sons ?
The father is not the son, the son is not the father. The word family... it's made up of a husband, a wife, and often children. The husband is not the wife, the wife is not the husband, but without each other, they are not family.
Another illustration here, the egg yoke is not the egg white, the egg white is not the shell, but all together they are an egg.

(2) Why does the Bible always show Jesus as the Son of God (Matt 16:16; John 20:31) and not as God ?
Well Jesus is the son of God. However there are many many verses that say Jesus is God.

(3) Why does the Bible teach that the Son, Jesus, receives the "kingdom" (Dan 7:13,14; Luke 22:29; Isa 9:6) and never God as receiving it ?
In a family, the phrase "mom got a new car" could be taken as, mom is the person who will primarily be driving it. However the whole family will likely be riding in it.

(4) Why is Jesus, the Son, always spoken of being "sent forth" by the Father (John 4:34; 7:16,28,29) but never God the Father as being "sent forth" by the Son ?
Does the son order the father around, or the father order the son around?

(5) Why did Jesus always pray to his Father and not the Father to the Son ?(Matt 6:9; 11:25; 26:39,42,44)
Because Jesus was on Earth without some of his powers. The father was always in heaven with all of his power. (All of these questions have been answered before)

(6) Why is Jesus called God's "servant", but never is God called Jesus "servant" ?(Isa 42:1; Matt 12:18; Acts 3:13,26; Acts 4:27,29)
Again, does the son command the father, or the father command the son. All parts are not necessarily equal in a family, or in an egg, on a football team, etc... However each is equally important in their role.

(7) Why did Jesus call himself the "firstborn of all creation", at Revelation 3:14, but of God, he is from "everlasting to everlasting", at Psalms 90:2 ?
Because Jesus existed before creation. God/Jesus always existed. When the earth and universe were created. who do think created them?

(8) Why was Jesus "exalted to the right hand of God"(Acts 2:33; Phil 2:9; 1 Pet 3:22), but never has God been exalted to the right hand of Jesus ?
Back to the father/son thing. See answers to questions 1, 4 and 6.

(9) Why is Jesus spoken as the "Lamb of God"(John 1:29), but never God as the ' Lamb of Jesus' ?
Because Jesus was made flesh to be sacrificed. (The wages of sin is death) This is such a deep theological truth I hesitate to give this a quick short answer. The bottom line is Jesus was the Lamb that was slain (on the cross, for our sins, etc..) the sacrifice that had to be done to pay the price for our sins. (Isa 53:10) The father wasn't sacrificed to please Jesus, Jesus was sacrificed to satisfy the father.

(10) Why is Jesus always called the Son (Matt 3:17; 17:5), but never the Father, and why is God always called the Father (2 Cor 1:3; Eph 1:3,17) but never the Son ?
See answers to 1, 4, 6 and 8 above.

(11) Why is Jesus taught by the Father (John 7:28), but the Father is taught by no one ?(Isa 40:13)
Jesus was born as a human, had human limitations when he was on the earth. He had to learn many things from scratch. (as a human) Jesus's favorite name for himself was he "son of man". Do you know why this is?

 

[B-A-C]

The word God is translated from the Hebrew word 'Elohim' which is plural. God is singular but is composed of more than one being, just like the word 'family' or 'government', it is singular but composed of one or more people. In the God Family there is God the Father and God the Son. Notice in Genesis when Adam and Eve had eaten the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, the members of the God family were talking with each other:

Gen 3:22 <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-78"></sup>And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Unbeknown to many Christians, God's plan is for us to become members of the 'Elohim' in the future. When we are given the gift of eternal life, we will be higher than the angels, we become members of the God Family!

This almost sounds like Mormon theology where we all become Gods of our own planet. No we don't become Gods.
Adam and Eve became as God in the sense that they now knew right from wrong and good from evil. They were not like God in many other ways. They didn't create planets and heavens. They didn't live sinless lives. They didn't live forever in the flesh. They died like everyone else.

 

[Brother Mike]

thank you......

Thank you B-A-C...

The father is not the son, the son is not the father.

What we have been saying all along.

Well Jesus is the son of God. However there are many many verses that say Jesus is God.

There are but a handful of verses that refer to Jesus being God himself, They do not even come close to the ones where Jesus is the Son of God, and not God. For Jesus said my father is greater than I.

In a family, the phrase "mom got a new car" could be taken as, mom is the person who will primarily be driving it. However the whole family will likely be riding in it.

The whole family being made of different People, agreed.

Does the son order the father around, or the father order the son around?

Jesus took strict orders from His father in Heaven, He was not a free agent like God is.

(5) Why did Jesus always pray to his Father and not the Father to the Son ?(Matt 6:9; 11:25; 26:39,42,44)
Because Jesus was on Earth without some of his powers. The father was always in heaven with all of his power. (All of these questions have been answered before)

We dodge the question again, If Jesus was God, He would not have any need to pray to himself. Jesus also being filled with the Spirit of God (Holy Ghost) had all the power of God.

Again, does the son command the father, or the father command the son. All parts are not necessarily equal in a family, or in an egg, on a football team, etc... However each is equally important in their role.

You speak as God just came apart, and has no idea what each of his parts are doing. Jesus was obedient to his father.

(7) Why did Jesus call himself the "firstborn of all creation", at Revelation 3:14, but of God, he is from "everlasting to everlasting", at Psalms 90:2 ?
Because Jesus existed before creation. God/Jesus always existed. When the earth and universe were created. who do think created them?

NO...... Scripture says he was begotten of God, the first born son of God. wow....

Thank you for at least trying, but you come to the same conclusion every time... Jesus Is the son of God.

Salvation: This is basic doctrine of Salvation.

2Co 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by.............

1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

The whole concept to Salvation is to believe Jesus is the son of God.

It is not to believe Jesus is God.

If the concept of Salvation was to figure out Jesus is just really God, the scriptures would have made that very clear to everyone being the most important part of the Word of God, being born again and reconciled back to God.

If a Doctrine diminishes the Lord Jesus and just makes him out to be God, removing him then it's a false Doctrine.

The Lie and deceptions comes when those that believe Jesus Is Just really God, try to deceive and say..... Oh well, Jesus is the son of God, but just a part of God, but really it was God all along.

So we plant in the minds of others when they read the scriptures that this whole time Jesus is just really God with some of his powers knocked back. They merge Jesus and God together getting confused and no longer believe Jesus is the son of God, because he is just really God all along. You must believe Jesus is the son of God, NOT GOD!!!! The scripture does not say your saved by believing Jesus is just God.

The Jews denied that Jesus was actually God's Son.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:

To say Jesus is God, is to say God did not make and create a son, and to deny the son was even made, they deny God.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[gdemoss]

The "Jesus is God" doctrine is held onto for the purpose of excusing oneself from sin. If Jesus was God (100% God and 100% man) then one can say that Jesus was able to live without sin because he was God and that none of us can do such a thing. All we can hope for is to aim for the mark, but be disappointed daily by falling into the various traps of sin, never able to be like him. This is what the church I left taught.

Every heresy within the church has one aim; to allow oneself to be excused for their continuously walking in the flesh and in sin. With each heresy the amount of sin that is acceptable changes. Heresy is a work of the flesh. A product of the carnal mind.

Jesus said that the disciple is not above his master but everyone that is perfect is as his master. John said we can have confidence in the day of judgment because we are as he is in this world. Pastors and teachers were given for the specific call to bring up Christians to the fullness of the stature (maturity) that is in Christ Jesus. They can't teach what they don't possess. They are supposed to be walking in the spirit as opposed to the flesh. Don't be fooled by the verses that state that Jesus was Emmanuel or God with us as Jesus was the walking temple of God the Father for over 3 years. All the fullness of the divinity dwelt in him bodily. Jesus had not only the Holy Spirit but all 7 of Gods spirits dwelling within him while he was here. He was rewarded this way because he spent 30 years diligently working to be about his fathers business and was pure, holy and just.

While Jesus is Gods Son, he left his former estate to become a man and part of the creation. Although Jesus lived a sinless life and died on the cross for our sin, it was God the Father who sent him to do so. Jesus has always been and always will be subservient to his Father. But the Father has made it sure that everything else will always be subservient to Jesus. Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

 

[Brother Mike]

Wow!!

WoW Gary.............

Whosoever denies the Son......... Who Denies God created a Son?

If Jesus was just God, and some part of God being the Word that just turned into flesh, still the Word, still really God.

Then there would be nothing to compare obedience to the Father, as there never really was a son if it was just God. So, If Jesus was God the creator, then we have excuse, because who can really be like God.

But if Jesus was born of God, a son, created by God, and showed his loyalty to God, being obedient unto death. Then we have a real example whereby there is no excuse. If Big brother did it, and helps us, we can also do it.

I am sure I beat this up some, but profound.

The scripture is Correct, if Jesus is the Son of God, then Jesus is in the God class, and God also like God. Not God the creator, whom no other is like though.

Jesus Is Lord.