Is there a Division between the sin and person in homosexuality

[Bill]

Greetings @Sue D.

Without wishing to spend too much time on my stuff.

My mother is an atheist. She left my father (now deceased) for a new partner.

This unnatural love is a hard candy coating of the devils lair....further hardening the heart to the truth.

The Father in Heaven, hears the hearts of His children


Yes.....I believe that is true...although sometimes doubt slips in.

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time
1 Timothy 2:3-6

The devil always likes to make us doubt. "Surly you will not perish if you eat this fruit" the same thought is given to the homosexual crowd.

In God all things are possible. And as Paul. Tells us. "Faith, Hope, and Love. And the Greatest of these is Love"

 

[Sue D.]

Greetings @Sue D.

Without wishing to spend too much time on my stuff.

My mother is an atheist. She left my father (now deceased) for a new partner.

This unnatural love is a hard candy coating of the devils lair....further hardening the heart to the truth.



Yes.....I believe that is true...although sometimes doubt slips in.

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time
1 Timothy 2:3-6

@Fragrant Grace -- I am So sorry -- about your parents. And your concern for your mother. And, yes, her heart does need to be reached by God through the Holy Spirit. Our timing/ God's timing.

 

[Sue D.]

Im going to title it. "Are Christains killing Christianity" still working on its writing

I do hope you realize that Nothing is going to kill Christianity.

 

[Sue D.]

I cant agree with you as it tries to validate whatPaul was so adiment against.

There is a huge difference between two sisters in faith living together with the love of sisters. And two women living together in a sexual diversive love relationship

Bill -- I'm Not trying to be argumentative -- but -- lots of people try to rationalize their private relationships. The thought being that it's no ones business what goes on behind closed doors.

What's really sickening to me -- is that all of this seemed to start when some famous people / Hollywood or the sports world / started 'coming out of their closet' about their sexuality. And people started using 'them' as their role models.
No one came down on the famous people for their private behavior, so apparently it's really Okay.

And there are Lots of people who feel that Bible needs to catch up with Society. When, in reality , Society needs to get Back to Bible.

And then, there are those who feel that since David and Jonathan were 'probably' homosexual that it Must be okay. Society almost can't allow people - either men or women - to be close friends Without being sexual about it.

There are So many ways to express / show 'love' other than being sexual. And there are several Kinds of love.

These days -- it's almost Better to live alone but close to friends than to risk anyone's reputation by sharing living spaces. And , unfortunately, closeness Can present problems.

 

[Hiswillbedone]

I understand what you are saying. In my personal opinion there are 2 kinds of sin. Basically. 1, when you are not thinking, and plainly do something stupid, like swearing. 2 a wilfull act.

Any sin is separation from God

The issue i have with homosexuality and the ilk. There is definitely a wilfull act. But it is more, likeflunting in the face.

I love God. And this flagrant behavior disgusts me

While I understand what you are getting at, I think there may be an issue with your theology.

The main thought is putting one sin above another, but the justification you are using is that one is willful sin and the other is not. This implies that you only sin when you are not thinking, rather than the willful type of sin. Is that what you believe? If not, and you do sin willfully, then you are condemning yourself along with homosexuals (BTW, swearing is a willful act. It may seem unwillful because we made a habit of doing it, but all it takes is making a decision to stop swearing in order for you to break the habit. It won't be immediate or easy, but if we truly want to stop swearing, then we are more than cabable of doing it, therefore, don't justify this idea that swearing happens "without thought", it very much does.).

While I believe we should be free and bold enough to call a sin a sin, but we should do so in a humble spirit. If we are doing it to condemn one sin over another, possibly to make ourselves feel better by being able to say, "well at least I am not that bad compared to this person that does a more "worse" sin in my eyes", then by the same standard we judge others; we also will be judged. Furthermore, the same way you see homosexuals for their sin, so does God see you for yours. You're playing with fire, brother.

In peace

 

[Sue D.]

Homosexuality is involving another person in a sexual act that God calls an abomination to Him. In both the Old and New Testaments -- two men / two women are Not to 'be together' the same way that a man and woman are 'being together'.

 

[Bill]

While I understand what you are getting at, I think there may be an issue with your theology.

The main thought is putting one sin above another, but the justification you are using is that one is willful sin and the other is not. This implies that you only sin when you are not thinking, rather than the willful type of sin. Is that what you believe? If not, and you do sin willfully, then you are condemning yourself along with homosexuals (BTW, swearing is a willful act. It may seem unwillful because we made a habit of doing it, but all it takes is making a decision to stop swearing in order for you to break the habit. It won't be immediate or easy, but if we truly want to stop swearing, then we are more than cabable of doing it, therefore, don't justify this idea that swearing happens "without thought", it very much does.).

While I believe we should be free and bold enough to call a sin a sin, but we should do so in a humble spirit. If we are doing it to condemn one sin over another, possibly to make ourselves feel better by being able to say, "well at least I am not that bad compared to this person that does a more "worse" sin in my eyes", then by the same standard we judge others; we also will be judged. Furthermore, the same way you see homosexuals for their sin, so does God see you for yours. You're playing with fire, brother.

In peace

Im kinda used to playing with fire. Lol.

But in all seriousness. It is right to say pray for the sinner, not the sin.

In the thoughts on homosexuals. I have encountered 2 types in general. The one, who i find pity for. (A lady i know) bad childhood, 2 failed marriages that were both abusive. And so on. She has found relitive peace with another woman.

The second, i have seen many of these. Flagrant, in your face. Without concern about others. Like the despicable display at Madie Gra after hurricane Katrina. Where even the parade floats were a slap in the face to God.

I have very low tolerance for these people. (2nd group)

Do i want them in Hell. Absolutely not.

 

[Bill]

Bill -- I'm Not trying to be argumentative -- but -- lots of people try to rationalize their private relationships. The thought being that it's no ones business what goes on behind closed doors.

What's really sickening to me -- is that all of this seemed to start when some famous people / Hollywood or the sports world / started 'coming out of their closet' about their sexuality. And people started using 'them' as their role models.
No one came down on the famous people for their private behavior, so apparently it's really Okay.

And there are Lots of people who feel that Bible needs to catch up with Society. When, in reality , Society needs to get Back to Bible.

And then, there are those who feel that since David and Jonathan were 'probably' homosexual that it Must be okay. Society almost can't allow people - either men or women - to be close friends Without being sexual about it.

There are So many ways to express / show 'love' other than being sexual. And there are several Kinds of love.

These days -- it's almost Better to live alone but close to friends than to risk anyone's reputation by sharing living spaces. And , unfortunately, closeness Can present problems.

Well said, Sue

 

[regibassman57]

Thank you Sue, you are much more eloquent than i.

There is a big differance between the sin of homosexuality and stealing, though both are sins. Homosexuality includes a deeper willfulness. You know it is against human nature, you know it is against God's will. You flaunt it when you know it bothers others. And even though you know these things. Still do it.

Paul tells us in Romans, of what they will reap with this behavior. He is more explicit on homosexuality than any other single sin.

Pastor Malici Marten stated that homosexuality is the perfect possession. Most who experience this darkness (possession) dont want anything to do with it. Homosexuals embrace it.

@Bill,
For believers - homosexuality is no different than porn, stealing, murder, hate, masturbation, or any other "unfruitful work" that prevents the believer from developing in the character/fruit of Jesus Christ. If a person does any of the above activities, there is "zero" character development; leaving the believer feeling guilty, wrong and sad or frustrated.

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

So - it is not just for a person to judge the transgression of another when all have sinned, before Christ, and come short of God's glory. While we were "in" our sins Christ died for us and we were guilty of "all" sins. This act of judging a person is unjust and unfruitful. And because Christ is not judging you at this time, it's not wise for you to judge another. God is no respect of persons. Under the Mosaic Law Uzziah was judged and lost his life because he sought to prevent the Arch of the Covenant from possibly falling - homosexuals were also put to death. Two extremely different types of sins, but God allowed them to be judged the same. The wages of sin is death.

It sounds like you don't understand the deceptiveness of Satan and how he works. Jesus died and rose so that you and I can be made free of the bondage of Satan. Christ has given us wisdom to recognize how to see Satan when he comes to us. Most homosexual Christians and heterosexual Christians do not fully understand this wisdom, just like heterosexual fornicators (christians) do not understand this wisdom. This is because the emotional pull is the same as any emotional addiction of anything that brings a person into bondage - it haunts and cripples a person. They are confused when their mind says one thing, but their emotions say something different. This is why scripture teaches, "a city or house divided against itself cannot stand. They are confused by the emotional pull dictating how they should feel towards the same sex. Whether it's thought through or on impulse, a person had to be tempted first; and it's through the temptation the deception and paralyzation of the mind comes into play. The addiction overwhelms them.

If a person is not free, they will do whatever it takes to find some sort of comfort from the mental anguish that Satan torments them with. If they believe the only way to get relief from the mental pain is to act as if what they are doing is normal, they will - but it's not to rub it in the face of those that are of the contrary. They are not flaunting it in many cases, just, accepting what they understand themselves to be. Don't be the main character in your post... "Are Christians Killing Christians."

 

[Sue D.]

@regibassman57 --- 'we' are no longer under the Law -- we are under grace. The ACT OF homosexuality is the problem -- that person is using their body in a way not meant to be used With another person. Masterbation is a one-person activity. And those activities Are sin. And as one of the other posters was saying - calling those activities "unfruitful works" is simply 'sugar-coating' SIN. And how about the believer who justifies homosexuality because they believe God created them with those feelings and so, thus, No feelings of guilt, sadness, frustration. And, of Course that's satan's deceiving them. Or how about the child whose experienced some weirdness at home and finds themselves identifying with the same sex emotionally. WHATEVER the reason, the Act Of homosexuality is still putrid in God's eyes. Because it's thwarting His plan for family. Same-sex 'sex' is satans' counterfeit 'family'. People Like to find a way Around God's plan. The 'I'm an adult and want to do it My way".

No one is under the Mosaic Law unless they Choose to be. And, yes, homosexuals Were put to death. And for a Long time it was against the law. Only Problem was that it's nearly impossible to catch that 'in the act of'.

Proverbs says God gives wisdom to those who Ask for it.

And, yes, addiction IS a very strong pull in a given direction. A person becomes a 'slave' to 'whatever'. BUT it Can be over-come. That's why people / teens are warned to Not take that first Alcoholic drink or cigarette or experiment with sex. And even Christian married couples Can become addicted To sex.

You're saying that Most Christians don't understand 'this wisdom' -- just like Christian fornicators do not understand 'this' wisdom. Fornication is having sex before marriage -- adultery is having sex with someone other than your marriage partner. So -- you're saying that wisdom is given to us by Christ to recognize how to see satan when he comes to us. Well -- satan is the master deceiver -- he knows our weaknesses and works on those. And you're Also suggesting that Most Christians are really Christians. Every person alive has emotions -- that's why Scripture tells us to guard our emotions.

And lots of kids developing into teens Need guidance from parents regarding their hormones. When they're going through puberty , their hormones Do tell them 'somethings' that they Don't understand. And then society tells them that 'if it feels good, Do it'. And books for kids are suggesting it's really okay to show affection to their same sex friends. That it's 'just another way of doing things'.

Scripture says we Are fruit inspectors. "by their fruits we shall know them" Believers Will exhibit the 'fruits of the spirit'. Because the Holy Spirit's indwelling them Will be evident in their lives.

And, yes there Are homosexual's who take pride in flaunting their life style. And That is sick. And there are those who live quiet lives with each other Or apart -- and they Don't want to draw attention to themselves.

 

[Dave M]

For believers - homosexuality is no different than porn, stealing, murder, hate, masturbation, or any other "unfruitful work"

Matt 3:10 "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

mind boggling statement from the pits of hell

edit
I am not judging the person only his theology which is from hell

 

[Bill]

@Bill,
For believers - homosexuality is no different than porn, stealing, murder, hate, masturbation, or any other "unfruitful work" that prevents the believer from developing in the character/fruit of Jesus Christ. If a person does any of the above activities, there is "zero" character development; leaving the believer feeling guilty, wrong and sad or frustrated.

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

So - it is not just for a person to judge the transgression of another when all have sinned, before Christ, and come short of God's glory. While we were "in" our sins Christ died for us and we were guilty of "all" sins. This act of judging a person is unjust and unfruitful. And because Christ is not judging you at this time, it's not wise for you to judge another. God is no respect of persons. Under the Mosaic Law Uzziah was judged and lost his life because he sought to prevent the Arch of the Covenant from possibly falling - homosexuals were also put to death. Two extremely different types of sins, but God allowed them to be judged the same. The wages of sin is death.

It sounds like you don't understand the deceptiveness of Satan and how he works. Jesus died and rose so that you and I can be made free of the bondage of Satan. Christ has given us wisdom to recognize how to see Satan when he comes to us. Most homosexual Christians and heterosexual Christians do not fully understand this wisdom, just like heterosexual fornicators (christians) do not understand this wisdom. This is because the emotional pull is the same as any emotional addiction of anything that brings a person into bondage - it haunts and cripples a person. They are confused when their mind says one thing, but their emotions say something different. This is why scripture teaches, "a city or house divided against itself cannot stand. They are confused by the emotional pull dictating how they should feel towards the same sex. Whether it's thought through or on impulse, a person had to be tempted first; and it's through the temptation the deception and paralyzation of the mind comes into play. The addiction overwhelms them.

If a person is not free, they will do whatever it takes to find some sort of comfort from the mental anguish that Satan torments them with. If they believe the only way to get relief from the mental pain is to act as if what they are doing is normal, they will - but it's not to rub it in the face of those that are of the contrary. They are not flaunting it in many cases, just, accepting what they understand themselves to be. Don't be the main character in your post... "Are Christians Killing Christians."

I always found it interesting thst when encountering demons, Jesus never condemned them. Not once did He say "go to hell" . But he always showed mercy / pitty.

 

[Sue D.]

I always found it interesting thst when encountering demons, Jesus never condemned them. Not once did He say "go to hell" . But he always showed mercy / pitty.

When encountering demons -- Jesus Christ always caste them Out. He didn't have to tell them to 'go to hell' because He and 'they' already knew where they were headed.

 

[regibassman57]

@Bill,
When your acts were foolish in the times of your ignorance, you flaunted your foolishness everytime you were foolish because it was about "self;" only about you. When you learned better, you stopped acting a fool in the areas of your life and you quit flaunting it for others to see. So - give them the opportunity to learn what you have, and give them the grace to learn that God gave you.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dave,

Matt 3:10 "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

mind boggling statement from the pits of hell

edit
I am not judging the person only his theology which is from hell

If I knew you understood, I would rebuke you.

 

[regibassman57]

@Sue,

@regibassman57 --- 'we' are no longer under the Law -- we are under grace. .

If you truly believed what you are saying and understood what it means "not" to be under the law, you would not say you sin. You can only sin if you are "UNDER" the law.

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the "LAW SAYS, , it saith to them who are "UNDER" the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for "BY THE LAW"is the KNOWLEDGE OF SIN."

1 John 3:4
Whosoever commits sin "transgresses also the law": for "sin is the transgression of the law."

James 2:9
But if ye have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are "CONVINCED OF THE LAW" as transgressors.

You ave a lot to address in this post but I wanted to reply on the phrase "under the law" and present more understanding about the meaning. I will finish addressing the rest of your post.

 

[Dave M]

@Dave,


If I knew you understood, I would rebuke you.

Well I pray for you that your eyes are open one day and see the light.

You say homosexuality is sin like any other (wrong), and then you its not even sin for a believer(wrong)......this is what the word of God says, it does does NOT give beleivers a free pass to sin like you suggest every chance you get on here

1 Corinthians 6:18-20
Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

the word of God does NOT SAY well if you are believer you can get into heaven if you do these things. NOPE You trying to make up things in the bible to make people feel good are alright about sin by calling it unfruitful works is from the pits of hell, I pray your eyes will be open. And God bless you

 

[Fragrant Grace]

@regibassman57

You disrupt the flow of conversation in so many threads by continually bringing in your stance upon 'sin'. A temporary thread ban will be applied to allow other members to converse without your continual interuption.

Homosexuality is gross sin whether it be committed by a believer or a non-believer.

Praise God we have a forgiving loving Father in heaven who through His Son has opened a door to Salvation for the unsaved. And His Holy Spirit to lead and guide the saved in the ways of righteousness.

 

[Bill]

@Bill,
When your acts were foolish in the times of your ignorance, you flaunted your foolishness everytime you were foolish because it was about "self;" only about you. When you learned better, you stopped acting a fool in the areas of your life and you quit flaunting it for others to see. So - give them the opportunity to learn what you have, and give them the grace to learn that God gave you.

im always a fool for God.

 

[B-A-C]

I believe God loves sinners. I believe He might even love homosexuals. But even if He does... they aren't saved. They aren't in the kingdom of heaven.
And unless they repent, they will eventually end up in the lake of fire.

Rom 1:21; For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22; Professing to be wise, they became fools,

I would be careful about being a fool. ( Prov 26:5; )

Rom 1:26; For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27; and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

Rom 1:32; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only those who do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

Merely approving of other being homosexual makes you worthy of death, even if you don't practice it yourself.

1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1 Cor 6:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Tim 1:9; realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers
1 Tim 1:10; and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,

In the old testament, God even calls this an abomination. (A much worse sin than others)

Lev 18:22; 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.