Jesus Christ - 'the man"

[B-A-C]

Let me start off by saying Jesus is God. Part of the trinity. No argument about that here.

But I want to focus on the human part of Jesus for a moment.

Jesus favorite name for Himself was "the Son of Man". This phrase is used over 100 times in the New Testament. Most of those verses are Jesus speaking about Himself in the four Gospels, in fact
the phrase "son of man" is only used 12 times after the Gospels.

Why did Jesus call Himself this so often? It seems like if I was the Son of God, I'd be a lot more
proud of that, than being a son of man. Maybe Jesus knew His destiny. In order to save mankind,
he had to become a part of mankind.

Somehow Jesus was able to keep His "God" nature separate from His "human" nature at times.
For example.. God cannot be tempted. ( James 1:13; ) yet Jesus was tempted... ( Matt 4:1; Mark 1:13;
Luke 4:2; Heb 2:18; ) so if God can't be tempted... it must have been the human side of Jesus
that was tempted. Heb 4:15;

It's interesting.. Roman Catholics call the birth of Mary the "Immaculate Conception" even though
she was born a normal way, by normal human parents. Somehow this is more immaculate than
being the Son of God? Being born of a woman and God (the Holy Spirit) Himself! ??

ooops.. off topic there for a sec.

Back to "da man". Back when I was in the military, and even when I was a fireman, us
"manly men" had a phrase. Whenever someone did something for someone else, or did
something that was fairly difficult.. we would say "You da man!" Somehow I don't think any of
us did any close to what Jesus did.

1 Tim 2:5; says there is only one mediator between God and man.... the "man" Christ Jesus.
This is an interesting verse. Why does it specifically say "the man"... and yet immediately afterward
it says "Christ" Jesus. Messiah means "anointed one" or savior/liberator.

Jesus is also called our "high priest" several places.. mostly in Hebrews. ( Heb 3:1; Heb 4:14-15;
Heb 5:5; Heb 5:10; Heb 6:20; Heb 7:26; Heb 8:1; Heb 9:11; Heb 9:25; etc... )

The main purpose of a priest was to hear confession of sins, and then animal sacrifice for those
sins. In fact they had to know what sin you did in order to do the correct sacrifice. "Smaller" sins
required doves, pigeons, and things like that... "Medium" sins required a goat or a lamb....
"Large" sins required a heifer or bull.

But since sin separates us from God... ( Isa 59:2; ) perhaps it was impossible for Jesus as God
to handle our sins.... Jesus didn't only "handle" our sacrifice.. but became our sacrifice.

1 Pet 2:24; says Jesus Himself "bore" our sins in His body. 2 Cor 5:21; says "He became sin, for our sins"
This doesn't mean Jesus became sinful, it means He carried our sins to His death.
The (perhaps most famous) prophecy of Jesus' death in Isaiah 53; verse 6 says...
"The LORD has caused the iniquities (sins) of us all to fall upon Him.

So perhaps Jesus had to become a man for this.... but also... can a God die? The human
side of Jesus certainly did. Of course He isn't dead anymore, since He himself never committed
any sin ( Heb 4:15; ) death had no power over Him.

The wages of sin is still death... ( Rom 6:23; ) even in the New Testament.
But Jesus paid those wages for us.

 

[B-A-C]

Rom 5:
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Cor 15:21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Since came into the earth/men because of a man.
It had to be a man who defeated sin.

I've heard some say that there really wasn't a man named Adam, Adam is just an abstract of society
back at that time. If that's true, does that mean that Jesus is just an abstract of society also?
Are we saved by an abstract of society? Of course not.

 

[B-A-C]

Is it just me... or did you ever notice?

Jesus did a lot of incredible things while He was here on the earth.
He walked on the water. He calmed the storms. He raised the dead to life. He fed the multitudes.
He healed the sick. He made the lame walk. It seems He did a lot of things that only God could do.

But when it came to sin... Jesus "faced it like a man".
It seems that Satan was trying to tempt him in the wilderness, one of the things Satan was encouraging
Him to do was to use His "God" powers.
Matt 4:3; - turn these stones into bread.
Matt 4:6; - throw yourself off the top of the temple, so the angels will catch you.

Satan even tried to use scripture to get Jesus to do these things, but yet Jesus resisted using
scripture also.

Even when it came time to be crucified.... Jesus could have used His "God" power to stop it. ( Matt 26:53; )
but yet He didn't. He faced it like a human. He felt pain like a human, He bled like a human, and He died
like a human.

Now of course He isn't dead now... God raised Him from the dead. Jesus was obedient to the Father,
even unto to death. ( Php 2:8; ) I wonder how many of us could be that obedient to God?

 

[Dovegiven]

Jesus did a lot of incredible things while He was here on the earth.
He walked on the water. He calmed the storms. He raised the dead to life. He fed the multitudes.
He healed the sick. He made the lame walk. It seems He did a lot of things that only God could do.

But when it came to sin... Jesus "faced it like a man".
It seems that Satan was trying to tempt him in the wilderness, one of the things Satan was encouraging
Him to do was to use His "God" powers.
Matt 4:3; - turn these stones into bread.
Matt 4:6; - throw yourself off the top of the temple, so the angels will catch you.

Satan even tried to use scripture to get Jesus to do these things, but yet Jesus resisted using
scripture also."

I've taken his example as to be done whenever tempted beyond a simple "No" quenching it, or letting temptation die off by ignoring it.
At all three temptations Jesus answered back using scripture, even though he could have told Satan he was misquoting, taking things way out of context, and lying.
I think it's important to know the Word well enough to let the scriptures do the talking. It only took single verses for him to overcome Satan's perverseness. I'll trust the Holy Spirit to give me the right things to say.

Even when it came time to be crucified.... Jesus could have used His "God" power to stop it. ( Matt 26:53; )
but yet He didn't. He faced it like a human. He felt pain like a human, He bled like a human, and He died
like a human.

Fortunately we're not likely to have a similarly intense mission that would trump self preservation that dramatically.

This is an interesting thought you've sparked. As a man, Jesus said he could call upon the Father for rescue by 12,000 angels. I don't believe that privilege is restricted to Jesus, but is available to us.
We have angels being sent to minister to us without commanding them to do that, as Jesus could have done through the Father, He would have followed the chain of command, like a major wouldn't
call in another army division, but would request that from his general.

Hebrews 1:13-14 (KJV) 13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Seeing the angels are not intended to stay in Heaven with God, could we not stand up to threat, by faith calling on the Father at the likely risk of ridicule, benefiting from the transfer of a legion
or more of angels being moved from one part of earth to our situation?

I doubt the Church has many Christians realizing what power the Lord has provided us, choosing to sleep through many crises like present. Sleeping giant.

Why not modern believers "manning up" by doing such things?
John 16:23-24 (KJV) 23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

Rather than just stand by witnessing tragedies come like waves on the beach, I think it's more manly to step out on the water in faith.

Now of course He isn't dead now... God raised Him from the dead. Jesus was obedient to the Father,
even unto to death. ( Php 2:8; ) I wonder how many of us could be that obedient to God?

Have you read Foxe's Book of Martyrs? Maybe the "norm" for us is to obey like those, all of whom were humans, saved by grace through faith.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Back to "da man". Back when I was in the military, and even when I was a fireman, us
"manly men" had a phrase. Whenever someone did something for someone else, or did
something that was fairly difficult.. we would say "You da man!" Somehow I don't think any of
us did any close to what Jesus did.

That is because 'You da man' but Jesus 'Is the man',

in fact 'He was the Man', 'He is the Man', 'He will always be the Man.'

He already has His resurrected body, we will need to wait until His Return for ours.

God, Son of Man, who came to save man, so that we may be with Him forever.

He certainly Paid the Price and Paid it in Full. He did it all for us, because God Loves Us... 'He's da Man' - He's ya Man!'

 

[B-A-C]

As I was reading through scriptures again this morning, I caught the phrase "bodily form".

Luke 3:22; and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."
Col 2:9; For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Now of course, most of us agree Jesus had the fullness of Deity even though He was also fully a man. Not 50-50%, but 100-100%.
But it was the other verse that I found more interesting.

The Holy Spirit took on bodily form. Not as a man of course, but still it was body that people could see.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Amen Brother @B-A-C

Things that stand out to me over this debate of Jesus being God or man before the Cross as He walked in this earth.

Would the Holy Spirit need to enter God?
No but man yes.

Would God need to spend hours and hours praying seeking The Father?
No but a man would.

Blessings

 

[Quantrill]

Let me start off by saying Jesus is God. Part of the trinity. No argument about that here.

But I want to focus on the human part of Jesus for a moment.

Jesus favorite name for Himself was "the Son of Man". This phrase is used over 100 times in the New Testament. Most of those verses are Jesus speaking about Himself in the four Gospels, in fact
the phrase "son of man" is only used 12 times after the Gospels.

Why did Jesus call Himself this so often? It seems like if I was the Son of God, I'd be a lot more
proud of that, than being a son of man. Maybe Jesus knew His destiny. In order to save mankind,
he had to become a part of mankind.

Somehow Jesus was able to keep His "God" nature separate from His "human" nature at times.
For example.. God cannot be tempted. ( James 1:13; ) yet Jesus was tempted... ( Matt 4:1; Mark 1:13;
Luke 4:2; Heb 2:18; ) so if God can't be tempted... it must have been the human side of Jesus
that was tempted. Heb 4:15;

It's interesting.. Roman Catholics call the birth of Mary the "Immaculate Conception" even though
she was born a normal way, by normal human parents. Somehow this is more immaculate than
being the Son of God? Being born of a woman and God (the Holy Spirit) Himself! ??

ooops.. off topic there for a sec.

Back to "da man". Back when I was in the military, and even when I was a fireman, us
"manly men" had a phrase. Whenever someone did something for someone else, or did
something that was fairly difficult.. we would say "You da man!" Somehow I don't think any of
us did any close to what Jesus did.

1 Tim 2:5; says there is only one mediator between God and man.... the "man" Christ Jesus.
This is an interesting verse. Why does it specifically say "the man"... and yet immediately afterward
it says "Christ" Jesus. Messiah means "anointed one" or savior/liberator.

Jesus is also called our "high priest" several places.. mostly in Hebrews. ( Heb 3:1; Heb 4:14-15;
Heb 5:5; Heb 5:10; Heb 6:20; Heb 7:26; Heb 8:1; Heb 9:11; Heb 9:25; etc... )

The main purpose of a priest was to hear confession of sins, and then animal sacrifice for those
sins. In fact they had to know what sin you did in order to do the correct sacrifice. "Smaller" sins
required doves, pigeons, and things like that... "Medium" sins required a goat or a lamb....
"Large" sins required a heifer or bull.

But since sin separates us from God... ( Isa 59:2; ) perhaps it was impossible for Jesus as God
to handle our sins.... Jesus didn't only "handle" our sacrifice.. but became our sacrifice.

1 Pet 2:24; says Jesus Himself "bore" our sins in His body. 2 Cor 5:21; says "He became sin, for our sins"
This doesn't mean Jesus became sinful, it means He carried our sins to His death.
The (perhaps most famous) prophecy of Jesus' death in Isaiah 53; verse 6 says...
"The LORD has caused the iniquities (sins) of us all to fall upon Him.

So perhaps Jesus had to become a man for this.... but also... can a God die? The human
side of Jesus certainly did. Of course He isn't dead anymore, since He himself never committed
any sin ( Heb 4:15; ) death had no power over Him.

The wages of sin is still death... ( Rom 6:23; ) even in the New Testament.
But Jesus paid those wages for us.

Jesus Christ is 100% Man and 100% God. The God/Man.

You ask, 'can God die'? Do you understand what death is? Does any human die?

Quantrill

 

[Dave M]

its say Jesus was to be tempted by satan, does that actually mean to say

Does any human die

all humans die that is there flesh must die for sin is death and we all have sinned. our spirits live on and we will have new glorified bodies. is my understanding

 

[Quantrill]

its say Jesus was to be tempted by satan, does that actually mean to say


all humans die that is there flesh must die for sin is death and we all have sinned. our spirits live on and we will have new glorified bodies. is my understanding

So, this idea that God cannot die doesn't make any sense, since God became a Man in the person of Jesus Christ. Men do not cease to exist after the death of the body. So, neither does Jesus Christ. In other words, neither does God.

Quantrill

 

[B-A-C]

So, this idea that God cannot die doesn't make any sense, since God became a Man in the person of Jesus Christ. Men do not cease to exist after the death of the body. So, neither does Jesus Christ. In other words, neither does God.

True, But we dont walk around in our earthly bodies either.
John 20:17; Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Acts 1:3; To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

 

[Quantrill]

True, But we dont walk around in our earthly bodies either.
John 20:17; Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Acts 1:3; To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

What is your point. You asked can God die? I showed you what death is and that because Christ is God and Man, and Christ died, then God can die.

Quantrill

 

[B-A-C]

What is your point. You asked can God die? I showed you what death is and that because Christ is God and Man, and Christ died, then God can die.

Read the rest of the paragraph. It was rhetorical question. I'm on the same side as you here.
My only point is that Jesus was resurrected already. No one else is.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

What is your point. You asked can God die? I showed you what death is and that because Christ is God and Man, and Christ died, then God can die.

Seriously? You have got to be joking with this statement.

On the Cross Jesus said Father why have you forsaken me?
The Spirit of God was removed from Jesus and left with only the Spirit of man like any unsaved person.

Jesus then takes our place in hell.

Then The Father returns His Spirit in Jesus and that's when Jesus defeated satan and took back the keys that the devil stole from Adam.

God can die? Wow that's out in left field.
Blessings

 

[Quantrill]

Seriously? You have got to be joking with this statement.

On the Cross Jesus said Father why have you forsaken me?
The Spirit of God was removed from Jesus and left with only the Spirit of man like any unsaved person.

Jesus then takes our place in hell.

Then The Father returns His Spirit in Jesus and that's when Jesus defeated satan and took back the keys that the devil stole from Adam.

God can die? Wow that's out in left field.
Blessings

Yes, Jesus said, 'Father why have you forsaken me?'

The Spirit of God cannot be removed from Jesus as Jesus is God the Son. He, God the Son, was forsaken by the Father. This did not make Jesus just a man on the Cross. It made Jesus, God the Son, who was a Man, forsaken by God the Father.

When Jesus, Who is God the Son, became a Man, then God the Son can die. As He did. If He didn't, you are still in your sins.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Read the rest of the paragraph. It was rhetorical question. I'm on the same side as you here.
My only point is that Jesus was resurrected already. No one else is.

Oh,

Quantrill

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Yes, Jesus said, 'Father why have you forsaken me?'

The Spirit of God cannot be removed from Jesus as Jesus is God the Son. He, God the Son, was forsaken by the Father. This did not make Jesus just a man on the Cross. It made Jesus, God the Son, who was a Man, forsaken by God the Father.

When Jesus, Who is God the Son, became a Man, then God the Son can die. As He did. If He didn't, you are still in your sins.

Quantrill

Good luck with that thinking

 

[Quantrill]

Good luck with that thinking

In other words, you have nothing to offer.

God the Son who became the Man Jesus Christ, didn't cease to be God the Son on the cross. Your statement in post [HASH=1740]#(15[/HASH]) that Jesus on the cross was like any other unsaved man is ludicrous. He was God the Son forsaken by God the Father.

Quantrill

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

In other words, you have nothing to offer.

God the Son who became the Man Jesus Christ, didn't cease to be God the Son on the cross. Your statement in post [HASH=1740]#(15[/HASH]) that Jesus on the cross was like any other unsaved man is ludicrous. He was God the Son forsaken by God the Father.

Quantrill

What is ludicrous is the way you tend to twist things.

What I said was when the Father removed His Spirit from Jesus He then became like an unsaved man.

A saved man with the Spirit of God could not take our place in hell.

A Spirit filled man could not become SIN as Jesus did for us.

This theory of yours that God died on the cross is simple child's play on words.

Blessings

 

[Quantrill]

What is ludicrous is the way you tend to twist things.

What I said was when the Father removed His Spirit from Jesus He then became like an unsaved man.

A saved man with the Spirit of God could not take our place in hell.

A Spirit filled man could not become SIN as Jesus did for us.

This theory of yours that God died on the cross is simple child's play on words.

Blessings

You have Jesus being nothing more than a man with the Spirit of God. Just like a believer today, only without sin. That is not so.

The human Person of Jesus Christ was Deity. He was God the Son. When the Son cried out to the Father, why hast thou forsaken Me?, God the Son remained on the cross.

Jesus was not a Spirit filled man. He was God the Son. He was not a saved man. He was God the Son.

God the Son bore the penalty of sin. God the Son died on the cross.

Quantrill