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Jesus Christ - 'the man"

You took that post #29 entirely out of context, defaming the author and God. It's hard to believe anyone could derive your conclusion, even an unbeliever! I realize unbelievers like to pick on us, but their approach is usually obvious.

Jesus laid His heavenly advantages aside, submitting to be birthed as a man of earth like you and me. God tasted of mankind through Jesus, His only begotten Son. The rest of us Christians are adopted sons.
Philippians 2:5-11 (KJV)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

No, I didn't take anything out of context.

God the Son laid His heavenly advantages aside.....correct? Yes, God the Son became a Man.

The term 'begotten' when speaking of Jesus Christ, refers to the resurrection. Not the incarnation. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33)

No, we are not adopted children of God. We are truly born of God. Born-again. Born of His Spirit. He is our real Father.

Quantrill
 
Ok let's let Wired speak for him self.
Wired says he does not continue to answer all your questions because he gets tired of you changing what was said and insisting he says something else.

Blessings

I haven't changed anything. I am going by what you said. What you didn't say is, Jesus Christ is God the Son. And that is my question. Is Jesus Christ God the Son?

Big difference in that and saying Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Quantrill
 
My only point is that Jesus was resurrected already. No one else is.
What is the difference between being born again and being resurrected? Are they not the same... a changing from being dead to being Alive?
 
@amadeus2 -- resurrected is a bodily visual event. Lazarus was raised from the dead. A little girl was brought back to life.

Being born-again is an inner belief in the heart and confession unto God. The 'new life' is brought about by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Neither of these is a visual event seen by others.
The life change brought on By the Holy Spirit Should be noticed by others in the characteristics of a person's life.

so -- they are different kinds of events.
 
@amadeus2 -- resurrected is a bodily visual event. Lazarus was raised from the dead. A little girl was brought back to life.

Being born-again is an inner belief in the heart and confession unto God. The 'new life' is brought about by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Neither of these is a visual event seen by others.
The life change brought on By the Holy Spirit Should be noticed by others in the characteristics of a person's life.

so -- they are different kinds of events.

Slight refinement of this: resurrection is not quite the same as being raised from the dead. Lazarus was raised from the dead and presumably died at a ripe old age. Jesus was resurrected with an immortal body, as we will all have when he returns. That's why Paul can talk of Jesus as the firstfruits of the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15.
 
We are born-again by the resurrection of Christ, just like Christ was born-again by the resurrection.

(1 Peter 1:3) (1 Peter 1:23)

The resurrection is the birthing room for the children of God.

Quantrill
 
We are born-again by the resurrection of Christ, just like Christ was born-again by the resurrection.

(1 Peter 1:3) (1 Peter 1:23)

The resurrection is the birthing room for the children of God.

Quantrill

I don't accept that Jesus needed to be born again spiritually. He arose in His own body, too, glorified. He was the first born of God before the foundation of the world, always was God, with Father God, and the Holy Spirit. There was nothing fallen in Him to correct. YE must be born again, not Jesus.
 
I will add there are many resurrections at the hand of God. 2 Kings 13:21 has a dead man resurrected when let down onto Elisha's grave bones. The nation Israel was resurrected more than once. The last time Israel was resurrected was in 1948. When Jesus was crucified, the saints rose from their graves and went into Jerusalem, witnessed by hundreds. Lazarus, as already mentioned. Saints will resurrect from their graves to be with Jesus in the air. At the great judgment all remaining dead will be resurrected from their graves. But the greatest of all is the multiplied millions of souls born again, to be redeemed and resurrected to be with the Lord forever.
 
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him,

So then the Holy Spirit missed and fell to the way side.

I'm sorry to interject at this juncture of the conversation, but when I first started reading this, I seriously thought this was the beginning of a joke!!! If I hadn't read the next line, I would have looked to what forum this thread was posted in!!!

Thanks brother! I know this was unintended, but I really needed that laugh before calling it a night! I'll wait until tomorrow before reading the rest of the intended thoughts.

God bless you and stay faithful brother!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
Slight refinement of this: resurrection is not quite the same as being raised from the dead. Lazarus was raised from the dead and presumably died at a ripe old age. Jesus was resurrected with an immortal body, as we will all have when he returns. That's why Paul can talk of Jesus as the firstfruits of the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15.

Let me refine that. Jesus is the resurrection and the life. He applied resurrection to Lazarus, who already supposed to be stinking of death, in the grave.
John 11:23-26 (KJV)
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her,
I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
 
Not quite. Lazarus has the resurrection of the body ahead of him - on the last day, as Martha said.
 
I don't accept that Jesus needed to be born again spiritually. He arose in His own body, too, glorified. He was the first born of God before the foundation of the world, always was God, with Father God, and the Holy Spirit. There was nothing fallen in Him to correct. YE must be born again, not Jesus.

Jesus Christ was born-again in that He died and was resurrected. That same action takes place at our being born-again, only without the body as yet. (1 Peter 1:3, 23) This was day the Father declared "Thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee." (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33) "...in that he hath raised up Jesus again...."

As I said, the resurrection is the birthing room of the children of God.

Quantrill
 
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And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him,

So then the Holy Spirit missed and fell to the way side.

What you are refusing to see is Jesus did not walk this earth as God. Jesus could not be our example as God.

I also said Jesus on the cross after the Spirit of God was removed then became like any unsaved man meaning a man with only the Spirit of man and a soul in a body.

He had to be emptied of ALL GOD SPIRIT point blank.

Sin can not enter God.
Jesus was made sin or took on Himself All Sin.

This was a brilliant strategic move on God the Father's Part. Only a man can enter hell in our place. That is How Jesus was able to fool all of hell. It was just a sin ridden deformed cast out of God man BUT Then at the Right moment in time, God the Father placed His Spirit back in Jesus and Jesus rose up glorious and full of power and defeated all of hell.

Once Jesus was raised from death He became the First Born again man.

Its all in His Word!!

By the way I never said Jesus was not the Son of God/ son of man.

This play on words you are trying to make that God died on the cross too is not biblical.

Blessings
Wired

1 John 4:14 (KJV)
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

So Jesus was sent, therefore came from Heaven, was born of a woman, taking upon Himself flesh and blood to deliver the gospel, and seal it in His own body and blood. You need to both believe that in your heart and confess the truth of Jesus to be born again.

When the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus at His water baptism, He didn't fail to reach His target. The dove was used to bring good news of life, the olive branch, to Noah on the ark, a symbol the wrath of God was ended in Christ.

John 14:5-11 (KJV)
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him,
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him,
Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.


Jesus didn't have to die to receive God's Spirit.
Neither should you. Believe.
 
@amadeus2 -- resurrected is a bodily visual event. Lazarus was raised from the dead. A little girl was brought back to life.

Being born-again is an inner belief in the heart and confession unto God. The 'new life' is brought about by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Neither of these is a visual event seen by others.
The life change brought on By the Holy Spirit Should be noticed by others in the characteristics of a person's life.

so -- they are different kinds of events.

Thanks to you and everyone who responded to my question. I also see a difference, but what is it? Lazarus was called forth by Jesus, but it was only his flesh which resurrected. Jesus did not give Lazarus the new birth [born again, born from above] necessary to reverse the death present in every man of flesh since Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. The resurrection of Lazarus was a type or shadow of that which Jesus to make possible later...


Slight refinement of this: resurrection is not quite the same as being raised from the dead.
Perhaps, but a definition of terms is needed to communicate on this. There is a physical resurrection or a raising of the flesh from the dead as with the widow's son [Elijah I Kings 17:22] or Jesus with Lazarus [John 11:43]. That was only physical life which is really death to God, but it provides each person with a hope of obtaining that which really is Life [which Jesus is]. When I our time here is finished, if we have not yet received that real Life, then that is the end of our hope.

Lazarus was raised from the dead and presumably died at a ripe old age. Jesus was resurrected with an immortal body, as we will all have when he returns. That's why Paul can talk of Jesus as the firstfruits of the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15.
I don't know about the body, unless we are talking about a celestial body, but ultimately that doesn't really matter, does it, not so long as we have a part in the Resurrection within ourselves that changes us from something dead to a Living Soul?



We are born-again by the resurrection of Christ, just like Christ was born-again by the resurrection.

(1 Peter 1:3) (1 Peter 1:23)

The resurrection is the birthing room for the children of God.

Quantrill

The death of Jesus was the necessary sacrifice to open up the Way which had been closed since Adam and Eve were put out of the Garden. They were dead as each of us has been dead. Jesus opened the Way and the Holy Spirit will help us to put on the proper attire [Eph 6:11-17] to enter in and partake of the Tree of Life.


I don't accept that Jesus needed to be born again spiritually. He arose in His own body, too, glorified. He was the first born of God before the foundation of the world, always was God, with Father God, and the Holy Spirit. There was nothing fallen in Him to correct. YE must be born again, not Jesus.
No, Jesus did not, but a proper sacrifice was needed and no other man qualified. All were dead and defiled. Jesus opened the Way and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the end [rebirth or resurrection] in each willing and surrendered person.

Is there another resurrection for the whole Body of Christ which would include all who endure with Him to the end?
 
Good question. First, I believe no person resurrected to resume a life in the flesh on earth returns with soul and spirit, whether the old "dead to God" spirit is rebirthed or not. That "person" returns, like Lazarus did. If I were to be lost and died visiting Israel and had opportunity to be buried in Elisha's tomb, touching his bones, I might be resurrected, and I would expect to pick up where I left off spiritually, having my old mind too.

When the saints arose from their graves around Jerusalem, visiting in town, I would conclude relatives recognized them as returned, though not glorified.

The saints in Paradise could not have been alive there and in a glorified body, their bodies still in graves (except the two witnesses of Revelation, probably Enoch and Elijah, who owe the first death), so I would say their soul and spirit were there waiting to join their bodies. Perhaps Jesus led souls-spirits to Heaven, to be returned for the resurrection of all the dead in Christ, excluding those still alive when Jesus returns.

So for now many bodies in graves await their resurrection, into glory body, soul and spirit, and in the very last of several resurrections, many to judgment without Christ in them.

One last item I've meditated several hours now is whether resurrection is the same as being raised. The instances of people in the Bible being brought back alive who were not buried are very different from raising from the grave, especially among Jews. I've been to a Jewish funeral, told before attending that they believe the departed's soul is wandering three days while family members have time to arrive. It's one of those things I wouldn't argue among them. They have several variations about that. I do have a little personal testimony about that being raised from death apart from being buried.

I was late returning home from work 20 years ago, getting home about midnight, family asleep. I was 5 hours past time to resume take a new combination of blood pressure meds that later it was discovered interracted with something else. I laid on a couch still in uniform, waking up barking like a puppy, dreaming I was in a bag of puppies being tossed into a river, drowning. I tried to say "Jesus", but couldn't get breath, but could "bark". I crawled back to my pickup, and drove myself coming and going with a "heart block". I continued until seeing a hospital sign, then pulled up to the ER, leaving the door open in in drive. Somebody stopped it somehow while I stumbled inside. I collapsed in the ER without being able to tell them anything. I woke up in an exam room to see a nurse atop me doing CPR. I saw the scope with a flat line, beeping. A cart was shoved in with a defibrillator just about the time a second nurse just couldn't keep doing CPR. They were exhausted. They had run my ID and called my wife, who came in behind the cart. I felt myself slide out through my feet into the air, and knew I was very cold. A nurse put a nitro pill under my tongue. I was an overall bruise color all over. Another nitro. My body bounced each time they set the defibrillator off, but the scope still showed flat. O 2 is 8, get me O. They put a mask on me. My wife was pleading to me and God.

I realized I was hovering above the scene after 35 minutes of defibrillator jolts and other treatments, like a big needle plunged into my heart. As the team began to leave the room, my wife begged me to come back. I really didn't want to do that, seeing what looked like a hopeless body. I thought or said "I just can't decide. Can I stay or can I go on with you, Lord." My wife prayed again, crying, then getting bold, then crying. I couldn't let her go through that. I made a decision, so slid back in the way I left. Right then the scope came alive, and the team came back in. They told my wife I was back. A surgeon told me I needed a pacemaker, as the "spark plug" anode on one side of my heart was damaged. I nodded "Yes", and woke up in ICU.

That week in the hospital resulted in many nurses, doctors, and others amazed and confounded that I could recount everything that happened, though dead. My story resulted in numerous confessions of faith, "re dedications", the Catholic hospital nuns and priests interviewing me, other patients wanting prayer or just wanting to hear about the miracle for themselves, lawyers visiting too on my last day. I was raised from the dead not from what medical science did, for they had given up. It was the Lord letting me return in my full mind and a lot stronger spiritually. They told me my eyesight would probably be permanently affected due to lack of blood to the retinas, but they returned to perfect vision the next day! The meds changed too when the whole team got involved in that decision.

It was that week when I began seriously treating my body with healthy habits, losing lots of fat, running A1C from 16 down to 5.5 in a year, keeping that temple of the Holy Spirit clean as I knew how, returning to work in two weeks after discharge, and taking dietary classes, and working out, and sharing a very welcome fresh testimony to many.
 
Dovegiven -- you experienced a 'near-death' experience. You were not completely dead or you wouldn't have 'come back'. You were brought back to life not resurrected. You were in a RCC hospital -- are you RCC or did that just happen to be the hospital that you could drive to.

Yes, God Was allowing you to 'come back' because it wasn't your time to 'go' yet.
 
That hospital has been the only one in the hear t of town. A newer one was at least 15 miles farther, which was out of reach for me due to a mental block. I had never been there. I went by the state highway HOSPITAL sign, but had been to that one many times either as a patient or visitor. No, I am not Catholic, but am in heart non-denominational with the fulness of the Acts baptism, a former So. Baptist who spoke in tonges and am not ashamed. At that time the RCC owned the facility. I already knew the priest and nuns by simple visitation. Probably very few patients were Catholic. Every patient woke up to see Jesus still hanging on the cross, on the wall.

The doctors were and still are not identified with RCC. They never speak of religion., but just the medical "science". They are on record saying I was clinically dead. I had all the signs of death before they left the room. All my vitals, ECG including brain wave, O2, skin coloration. eyes, exhalation, non response to pin pricks, absence of motion including involuntary movement, allowed them to leave the room of a deceased patient. Many have reviewed the data.

What matters to me is I returned. I was an observer of my "dead" body and all that went on in efforts to revive me. They "knew" I was departed, so consider my return an "anomaly of science".

If not "raised" out of death, I did rise from the death process. I am not saying I was resurrected since I was not buried. Was I "raised" by God? I can't say. Medical science experts left the room, leaving the job to two nurses and a technician. Meanwhile, I agreed with my pleading wife to return into that body. I did, and am still in it. Whatever caused my heart to stop firing adequately to make a heartbeat has been corrected medically. I am thankful for the knowledge and wisdom of physicians, and for the hand of God in the matter.

I am now not needing to "take as needed" drugs like ibuprophen, flecainide, and metformin. I have the latest (fourth) pacemaker and wiring that makes sure both heart chambers work as required. Why it happened in the first place? None know. All I realize is it's important to exercise and eat a healthy diet, not steak and stuffed baked potato three times a week, with a quarter pound of bacon or sausage with eggs and waffle with sugar syrup every morning, and a lunch of fried chicken gizzards with hot sauce and potato wedges or 12 KFC fried pireces with fries, plus a gallon of sugary drinks a day.

I can now say all that without getting a hunger pain driving me to eat a bunch of junk.
 
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him,

So then the Holy Spirit missed and fell to the way side.

What you are refusing to see is Jesus did not walk this earth as God. Jesus could not be our example as God.

I also said Jesus on the cross after the Spirit of God was removed then became like any unsaved man meaning a man with only the Spirit of man and a soul in a body.

He had to be emptied of ALL GOD SPIRIT point blank.

Sin can not enter God.
Jesus was made sin or took on Himself All Sin.

This was a brilliant strategic move on God the Father's Part. Only a man can enter hell in our place. That is How Jesus was able to fool all of hell. It was just a sin ridden deformed cast out of God man BUT Then at the Right moment in time, God the Father placed His Spirit back in Jesus and Jesus rose up glorious and full of power and defeated all of hell.

Once Jesus was raised from death He became the First Born again man.

Its all in His Word!!

By the way I never said Jesus was not the Son of God/ son of man.

This play on words you are trying to make that God died on the cross too is not biblical.

Blessings
Wired

Brother, you asked why I commented on this. What carnal fleshly man innocent of any sin ever received this message at a water baptism? Well, there are none qualifying before or after to receive the word from above "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" Matthew 3:17 (KJV)

Am I supposed to assume Jesus somehow sinned later, then needed to be born again like all us sinners?

How could Jesus have deity removed from Him? I believe it was a matter of laying that aside, lest Jesus just declare by divine order all Jews in His time to be saved, then assume kingship over earth He went as far as healing and delivering many of them. Yet, the nation failed to endorse His standing as Deliverer, Messiah. He forgave everyone associated with His crucifixion, so none suffered through the ages at the hand of God over guilt of the crucifixion.

Jesus came as of the Crown of Heaven, but ministered as a born-again man. Every Christian should so minister, just short of wearing a heavenly crown while ministering. We have authority in Jesus' name, but not as God Himself. Jesus was born of Mary the first born among many brethren. He was the corn, the Seed sent of God, that yielded a great harvest of corns, seeds. If Jesus was but a common unsaved man until His death, His sacrifice would have been of no eternal value, but would have been personally blessed the other side of death. He was sinless from birth with no need to be born again.
"YE must be born again." His command was to follow HIM. Why follow any man who is not yet of God, anointed? How could Jesus be anointed to serve like He did yet not be equal or above being born again?
 
Brother, you asked why I commented on this. What carnal fleshly man innocent of any sin ever received this message at a water baptism? Well, there are none qualifying before or after to receive the word from above "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" Matthew 3:17 (KJV)

Am I supposed to assume Jesus somehow sinned later, then needed to be born again like all us sinners?

How could Jesus have deity removed from Him? I believe it was a matter of laying that aside, lest Jesus just declare by divine order all Jews in His time to be saved, then assume kingship over earth He went as far as healing and delivering many of them. Yet, the nation failed to endorse His standing as Deliverer, Messiah. He forgave everyone associated with His crucifixion, so none suffered through the ages at the hand of God over guilt of the crucifixion.

Jesus came as of the Crown of Heaven, but ministered as a born-again man. Every Christian should so minister, just short of wearing a heavenly crown while ministering. We have authority in Jesus' name, but not as God Himself. Jesus was born of Mary the first born among many brethren. He was the corn, the Seed sent of God, that yielded a great harvest of corns, seeds. If Jesus was but a common unsaved man until His death, His sacrifice would have been of no eternal value, but would have been personally blessed the other side of death. He was sinless from birth with no need to be born again.
"YE must be born again." His command was to follow HIM. Why follow any man who is not yet of God, anointed? How could Jesus be anointed to serve like He did yet not be equal or above being born again?
I am still not seeing why you are telling me this from what I originally said.
Blessings :)
 
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