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You're still asking because we didn't answer you, or because you honestly didn't understand? Or you don't believe? You're having a problem with seeing that God can become a human, because the Koran is written in such a way to make God appear with so much anger and always telling people to kill for His name, of course muslims would have a problem accepting this aspect of God.

Jesus, even though being God, submitted to the other person of God, his Father (Philippians 2:6, John 12:49-50). Jesus was in nearly constant prayer and communication to the Father, as you can find by studying through any of the gospels. He calls attention to himself, but even more so to the Father. In John 14:6-7, he says "No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well." I will have to say that at first, it is hard to see how it is logical that Jesus is God, yet he prays to God the Father. Yet, this is exactly what is taught in the New Testament. You may have to chew on this one a while to take it in. I suggest you give the Gospel of John a very careful reading in this light.

Dear "Property Of God", u posted many times in this topic, and u talked about almost everything
u talked about trinity
talked about the verses in the bible that u think that it proves that jesus is God
u offended islam

the only thing u didn't talk about is the verse i am asking about
does that mean that u don't have an answer?!!

again please answer my question
jesus said "my God and your God"
and of course God can't have a God
so what did he mean by that??
isn't that a proof that the father is jesus' God as he is their God??

please answer my question directly and please comment on this verse and don't give me other verses
 
Hamza, I don't think that you are joking.
But I'm interested to know in what way (do you think) does the Bible emphasize the muslims idea about Jesus more than the christians idea?
Actually I am really not joking

tell yau an idea
lets choose one of the four gospels, and start reading it verse by verse together, and lets discuss each verse and see whether the verse emphysis the idea that jesus is a Gods prophet or is he God

who wants to share in this??
 
u offended islam

Islam can't be offended. Islam is a religeon. Islam isn't a person.

You are a person. Maybe you are offended?

Why is it that muslims talk about islam as though it has a personality? As though it is a living breathing being? If it is so sure of its position, it could not possibly be offended in the first place, if it was, hypothetically, a thing that had feelings...
 
Actually I am really not joking

tell yau an idea
lets choose one of the four gospels, and start reading it verse by verse together, and lets discuss each verse and see whether the verse emphysis the idea that jesus is a Gods prophet or is he God

who wants to share in this??

Hamza,

That is a wonderful idea, I choose the gospel of John.
Here are the first few verses:
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.b

10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,c nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,d who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
From verses 1 through 14, we get that Jesus is the Word (or Logos in the original Greek). According to these verses, Jesus (also referred to as the "light") was God, who became flesh and made his dwelling among us.


Here's my question: Where in the Gospels do you get the idea that Jesus is a prophet? He never said that about Himself, and no other writers in the Bible ever spoke about Him being a prophet.


Your turn.
 
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Dear Hammmzzzaaa.

The definition of God is defined within the Bible itself.

The Bible is inspired by God.

God tells us whom He is.

Humans cannot know or define God, how could they?

Jesus is the very definition of God.

In Jesus we see God as personal, loving, caring.

God is primarily concerned with human salvation.

Hence, the Lamb (Jesus, messiah) was sacrificed for us.
 
You keep pushing away understanding the trinity which will explain your question, you can NOT understand it without understanding the Trinity. Don't be narrow minded, if you're here, read what we write or else I won't be interested in answering any of your questions.

Did you even read the whole book of John? Do you even know in what context the verse was said?
Jesus was explaining to Mary Magdalene, that she should go back to his disciples or brethren and tell them that she saw him, and that he was going to do what he had told them about. Jesus was born as a man, so he could be identified with mankind.
When Jesus said My Father, and Your Father, and My God and Your God, he was explaining that His Father was their Father, and His God was their God. Jesus gave his life so that mankind could develop a personal relationship with God, The Father. The reason for making the distinction of ONE GOD, ONE FATHER, was because the world and mankind had many gods they worshiped.

I'm sorry, but I don't really think you're here to learn about Jesus at all, you don't even wanna learn about the Bible doctrines or our theology.

You're just here because you found a verse that you can't understand or want to understand and on it you'll base your opinion about the Bible.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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THE GODHEAD - DEITY


<DIR><DIR>God the Father (First Person of the Trinity) is Almighty, Eternal, Spirit, Light and Love (John 4:24; 1 John 1:5; 4:8).
Jesus Christ is God the Son (Second Person of the Trinity, fully equal with the Father (Heb.1:3) and Holy Spirit), Lord and Savior, Head of His Body the Church,
The Holy Spirit (Third Person of the Trinity) is Comforter, Helper, Spiritual Guide and Teacher.
The Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are absolute sovereignty in power, contra any humanistic notion of the sovereignty of mankind.


</DIR></DIR>
 
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it was the Father’s purpose to manifest Himself, all that He is — not in holiness and righteousness and truth only; but in His infinite Love, Grace, Mercy, Tenderness, Gentleness, and Patience. He therefore sent His Son, and lo! God was manifest in the flesh! The Lord Jesus declared the Father — all that He was, which had never been done before, to any of His creatures. But, after revealing the Father’s love, mercy, and gracious tenderness towards sinners, the Son of God goes to the Cross. And there is revealed the eternal unchangeable holiness of the Father in hatred of sin, together with that love capable of giving the Son of His delight to bear sin for a world that rejected, despised His Son!
Jesus Christ was the eternal Son of God, pre-existent and only-begotten (John 1:1,2; 8:58); He entered the world through a supernatural event, the Virgin Birth (Matt. 1:20), and dwelt as God among men. He revealed, not only God's holiness and love (John 14:9) and the possibilities of a life wholly yielded to God (John 4:34), but He died as God, in order to make it possible for men to be made over into His own glorious image (II Cor. 5:17,21).
Hello Hammmzzzaa,Why are Muslims being disobedient to the father ? By rejecting Jesus. Do they not believe God?
 
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[/INDENT]From verses 1 through 14, we get that Jesus is the Word (or Logos in the original Greek). According to these verses, Jesus (also referred to as the "light") was God, who became flesh and made his dwelling among us.


Here's my question: Where in the Gospels do you get the idea that Jesus is a prophet? He never said that about Himself, and no other writers in the Bible ever spoke about Him being a prophet.


Your turn.
Thank u very much "will" for your cooperation
Now let us see U say that from these verses we get 3 points.
1 Jesus is the word.
2 Jesus is God.
3 God became flesh.

Can u just link each point from these three points to the verse from which u concluded it.
And concerning ur question about where in the gospel did Jesus say that he is prophet, my answer is that we didn't finish reading the whole gospel yet, so don't hurry, it will come with us later
 
Ill quote the full passage, because it might help. John 21

Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.

They asked her, “Woman, why are you crying?”

“They have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I don’t know where they have put him.” At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?”

Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”

Jesus said to her, “Mary.”

She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them that he had said these things to her.

On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Now Thomas (also known as Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.​

First note the titles that Jesus is given in this passage: teacher, the Lord, God, messiah, Son of God. These are the closing verses of the gospel, so it is clear that John wants to leave his readers reminded that Jesus is God.

Ok I'll attempt a direct answer to the question. There need not be a conflict: the Christian belief is that God is by nature relational - three persons in one Godhead. In Jesus' incarnation as a man, God takes human form.

Jesus talk of the Father as "my God" because the one God is made up three persons. "My God" here does not imply superiority or authority when Jesus says it.

You may not agree that Jesus is God, but I hope that answers your question.
 
Jesus talk of the Father as "my God" because the one God is made up three persons. "My God" here does not imply superiority or authority when Jesus says it.
Hekuran well said. My hope is that he will accept the entirety of what you have posted, and not feel that you having included additional verses negated answering his question.
 

Do Muslims believe in the Trinity? NO
Muslims believe in the Absolute Oneness of God, Who is a Supreme Being free of human limitations, needs and wants. He has no partners in His Divinity. He is the Creator of everything and is completely separate from His creation.
God says in the Quran regarding the Trinity:
<DIR><DIR>"People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.' Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. God is indeed just One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. God is sufficient for a guardian" (Quran 4:171).
</DIR></DIR>
Do Muslims believe that Jesus was the son of God? NO
<DIR><DIR>"Say: "God is Unique! God, the Source [of everything]. He has not fathered anyone nor was He fathered, and there is nothing comparable to Him!" (Quran 112:1-4).
</DIR></DIR>The Quran also states:
<DIR><DIR>"Such was Jesus, the son of Mary; it is a statement of truth, about which they vainly dispute. It is not befitting to the majesty of God, that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, ‘Be' and it is" (Quran 19:34-35).
</DIR></DIR>
Do Muslims believe Jesus was killed on the cross then resurrected? NO
<DIR><DIR>"“They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but they thought they did.” (Quran 4:156) “God lifted him up to His presence. God is Almighty, All-Wise” (Quran 4:157) .
</DIR></DIR>
 
will-Here's my question: Where in the Gospels do you get the idea that Jesus is a prophet? He never said that about Himself, and no other writers in the Bible ever spoke about Him being a prophet.Luk 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: Mat 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee. Joh 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
 
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You asked us a question, we answered, now, my turn.

Please explain the following:

Numerical contradictions in the koran

There are many numerical contradictions in the Quran. Can God make so much error in doing simple calculations?

How many days did it take to create Heavens and Earth ?

Quran 7: 54 Your gurdian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

Quran 10: 3 Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days

Quran 11:7 He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days
Quran-25:29: He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days

The above verses clearly state that God created the heaven and Allah created the heaven and the Earth in 6 days. But the verses below stated-

Quran 41: 9 Is it that ye deny Him who created the earth in Two Days ?

Quran 41: 10 He set on the (earth) Mountains standing firm high above it, and bestowed blessing on the earth, and measured therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR DAYS…

Quran 41: 12 So He completed them (heavens) as seven firmaments in Two days and …

Now do the math: 2(for earth) + 4(for nourishment) + 2 (for heavens) = 8 days; and not 6 days.

Can you please explain?

Another one:
Sura 2:109 "109. Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could Turn you (people) back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the Truth hath become Manifest unto them: But forgive and overlook, Till Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah Hath power over all things."

Here it says to be friend Jews and Christians and treat them well

BUT, in Sura 9:29-30 "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
9:30 And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!"

It says to fight against Jews and Christians.

Did God forget what he already asked of people?

Please explain my 2 questions.

Thanks.
 
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Christians,

I really don't think this is the place for attempting to pick out errors and contradictions in Islam. Here's why

  • Hammmzzzaaa has asked a question about what Christians believe about Jesus' identity. It is an intelligent question, and we should assume this is asked in good faith, and it is right for us to give the best and most helpful answers we can
  • This site is TalkJesus. I am sure that somewhere on the internet there is TalkIslam or an equivalent to go over apparent contradictions in the Koran
  • Hammmzzzaaa would be daft to attempt to answer the contradictions mentioned, just as any wise Christian avoids answering questions such as, did Cain marry his sister. It's just a waste of time.
  • If you are confident, as I am, that Jesus is the way the truth and the life, then proclaim it with boldness, and demonstrate Jesus' values in the way you talk to others.
  • Questions about my faith I would welcome from Muslims include: what is God's ultimate plan for the world; what is place of prayer in your life; how do you understand God's love; what difference does your faith make to your family life; how do your beliefs affect your political views; what does salvation mean to you.
  • Questions I would like to ask of Muslims include: what is God's ultimate plan for the world; what is place of prayer in your life; how do you understand God's love; what difference does your faith make to your family life; how do your beliefs affect your political views; what does salvation mean to you.
  • If we are serious about understanding each other, then that is good in every way. Point-scoring does little to glorify God or to enlighten others.
 
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will-Here's my question: Where in the Gospels do you get the idea that Jesus is a prophet? He never said that about Himself, and no other writers in the Bible ever spoke about Him being a prophet.Luk 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: Mat 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee. Joh 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

James, sure, He has been mistaken as a prophet, but are they correct?
My question remains, where in the New Testament that Lord Jesus claimed to be a prophet, and was referred to as prophet by Paul, Peter, and the rest of the writers of the New Testament?
 
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Thank u very much "will" for your cooperation
Now let us see U say that from these verses we get 3 points.
1 Jesus is the word.
2 Jesus is God.
3 God became flesh.

Can u just link each point from these three points to the verse from which u concluded it.
And concerning ur question about where in the gospel did Jesus say that he is prophet, my answer is that we didn't finish reading the whole gospel yet, so don't hurry, it will come with us later

Hamza,

In John 1:1-14,

Jesus is referred to as the Word (Logos), and since The Word was God, Jesus is God. How do we know that those verses are talking about Jesus? because it later states that The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. Who made His dwelling among us? Jesus. Therefore it is consistent that Jesus is God who became flesh.

Now it's your turn to tell me how do you interpret those verses and conclude that Jesus is just a prophet.

Will
 
Christians,

I really don't think this is the place for attempting to pick out errors and contradictions in Islam. Here's why

  • Hammmzzzaaa has asked a question about what Christians believe about Jesus' identity. It is an intelligent question, and we should assume this is asked in good faith, and it is right for us to give the best and most helpful answers we can
  • This site is TalkJesus. I am sure that somewhere on the internet there is TalkIslam or an equivalent to go over apparent contradictions in the Koran
  • Hammmzzzaaa would be daft to attempt to answer the contradictions mentioned, just as any wise Christian avoids answering questions such as, did Cain marry his sister. It's just a waste of time.
  • If you are confident, as I am, that Jesus is the way the truth and the life, then proclaim it with boldness, and demonstrate Jesus' values in the way you talk to others.
  • Questions about my faith I would welcome from Muslims include: what is God's ultimate plan for the world; what is place of prayer in your life; how do you understand God's love; what difference does your faith make to your family life; how do your beliefs affect your political views; what does salvation mean to you.
  • Questions I would like to ask of Muslims include: what is God's ultimate plan for the world; what is place of prayer in your life; how do you understand God's love; what difference does your faith make to your family life; how do your beliefs affect your political views; what does salvation mean to you.
  • If we are serious about understanding each other, then that is good in every way. Point-scoring does little to glorify God or to enlighten others.

I support this view completely.
 
Hey guys I am really getting confused
I asked if anyone wants to choose one of the four gospels and read it with me to see if the biography of Jesus in it emphasizes that he is god or a prophet
So "will" agreed to share with me this idea and chose the gospel of john and he started to read it's begining so can we continue on what we started please

So "will"
Yo said that u concluded from the first few verses that
1 Jesus is the word.
2 Jesus is God.
3 God became flesh.

Again can u link to me each one of these three points with the verses from which u concluded them
 
Let's tread a bit more carefully. The opening passage of John does not name Jesus. It is very dense language, and probably deliberately obscure. As an introduction, it works by building up suspense, and piquing our curiosity. The rest of John's gospel explains and develops the themes here.

John says of the "Word"

In the beginning was the Word
The Word was with God
The Word was God
The Word was with God in the beginning
All things were made through the Word
Life that was the light of all mankind was in the Word
The world has not recognised the Word
The Word became flesh
The Word made his dwelling among us
The Word gives all who receive him the right to become children of God.

At this stage in the Gospel, John has not revealed the identity of the Word, so we ought to be patient for a while. Still it seems clear that John is teaching that the Word is more than just a prophet.

Just one more thing, John opens with "in the beginning" that is a deliberate echo of Genesis "in the beginning". So John is hinting at us to think back to the beginning of the Scriptures.
 
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