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It's not for you to agree to disagree, first of all.

Your *opinion* isn't very important to much, if any, one here, it's not a poll or a survey and thank you very much but we don't need your opinion today.
 
I don't view the distinction between Jesus' words and John's writing as being all that significant. God inspired a range of people at different times and places to write the texts that make up the Bible. They were written for different people and for different purposes, but make up a single coherent revelation of God, and his redeeming power.

These words are part of God's holy scriptures, so no-one who is interested in getting to the heart of who Jesus is can dismiss them.

Hammmzzzaaa, your comments and questions so far have been very perceptive. I find it difficult to believe that the verses we have read so far are completely impenetrable to you.

What do you understand the passage to be saying?
 
I don't view the distinction between Jesus' words and John's writing as being all that significant. God inspired a range of people at different times and places to write the texts that make up the Bible. They were written for different people and for different purposes, but make up a single coherent revelation of God, and his redeeming power.

These words are part of God's holy scriptures, so no-one who is interested in getting to the heart of who Jesus is can dismiss them.

Hammmzzzaaa, your comments and questions so far have been very perceptive. I find it difficult to believe that the verses we have read so far are completely impenetrable to you.

What do you understand the passage to be saying?
well hekuran in order to understand my way of thinking, i remind u with what i said in the begining
i said lets read the biography of jesus from the gospel i am concerned with his life, his actions, his words, does they indicate that he is God or that he is a prophet?

imagine that someone opened the gospel and read about jesus life will he say that jesus is God?? this is the question.
thats why i am not very much concerned with what john says.

there is something u have to put in mind
u as a christian believe that all the gospel is inspired by god but non christians don't, so u can't depend on this point in discussion.
but what christians and others agree on is history, i mean the biography of jesus and thats what i want to discuss.

and in my discussion with u i will assume that all the biography of jesus in the gospel is true.

i hope that i was able to explain what i mean.
 
Ok. It's history only then! Most people think of John's gospel in four sections.

The first is the opening prologue John 1 1-19, which we have been looking at. The second is Jesus' public ministry from 1:20 to the end of chapter 12. The third section from chapter 13 to chapter 20 covers Jesus' final words, his death and resurrection. And finally there is an epilogue (chapter 21).

Shall we move from introductory comment to the action? John the Baptist viewed his life's work to be preparing the way for the Lord.

The religious authorities in Jerusalem send a delegation to John the Baptist asking him who are you (v22) and why do you baptise (v25). John's responses direct attention away from himself and towards Jesus.

John 1:19-34
 
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Jesus said, "31 “If I were to testify on my own behalf, my testimony would not be valid.32 But someone else is also testifying about me, and I assure you that everything he says about me is true.33 In fact, you sent investigators to listen to John the Baptist, and his testimony about me was true.34 Of course, I have no need of human witnesses, but I say these things so you might be saved.35 John was like a burning and shining lamp, and you were excited for a while about his message.36 But I have a greater witness than John—my teachings and my miracles. The Father gave me these works to accomplish, and they prove that he sent me.37 And the Father who sent me has testified about me himself. You have never heard his voice or seen him face to face,38 and you do not have his message in your hearts, because you do not believe me—the one he sent to you.
39 “You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!40 Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life.
41 “Your approval means nothing to me,42 because I know you don’t have God’s love within you.43 For I have come to you in my Father’s name, and you have rejected me. Yet if others come in their own name, you gladly welcome them.44 No wonder you can’t believe! For you gladly honor each other, but you don’t care about the honor that comes from the one who alone is God."
John 5:31-44 (NLT)
 
ok let us discuss the first verses

And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who art thou?"


<SUP id=en-KJ21-26039 class=versenum>20</SUP>And he confessed and denied not, but confessed, "I am not the Christ."

<SUP id=en-KJ21-26040 class=versenum>21</SUP>And they asked him, "What then? Art thou Elijah?" And he said, "I am not." "Art thou that Prophet?" And he answered, "No."

<SUP id=en-KJ21-26041 class=versenum>22</SUP>Then said they unto him, "Who art thou, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What sayest thou of thyself?"
<SUP id=en-KJ21-26042 class=versenum>23</SUP>He said, "I am `the voice of one crying in the wilderness, "Make straight the way of the Lord,"' as said the prophet Isaiah."
now the jews were waiting for 3 different persons
1-christ
2-Elijah
3-the prophet

we all know christ
and Elijah jesus said about him in in mathew 17:12 <SUP>"</SUP>But I say unto you that Elijah is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they pleased. Likewise shall also the Son of Man suffer by them."

but who is the prophet??
did this prophet come? or are the christians still waiting for him??
 
but who is the prophet??
did this prophet come? or are the Christians still waiting for him??

A good question. The verse is referring back to Moses' prophecy.

Deuteronomy 18:14-19

John simply denies that he is the fulfillment of this prophecy. Jesus answers this very issue for himself a little later on.
 
John simply denies that he is the fulfillment of this prophecy. Jesus answers this very issue for himself a little later on.

Sorry but I didn't really get this point. Do u mean that Jesus is "the prophet" they were asking about?
 
Sorry but I didn't really get this point. Do u mean that Jesus is "the prophet" they were asking about?

That's me not being very clear. I wanted the answers to come out of the text naturally rather than me push my ideas.

The passage I was thinking of is John 5:45-47. There Jesus says that Moses wrote about him.

And in the sermon recorded in Acts 3:17-23 Peter claims that Jesus is the fulfillment of Moses' prophecy still more clearly.

John 5:45-47
Acts 3:17-23

Yes, Jesus is the prophet that Moses spoke of.
 
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No one will be convinced against their will one way or another. Is Jesus God or not? That is a question each individual has to answer for themselves.

Jesus said He was God. I'm not going to bother giving the evidence (there has been plenty of scriptures shared already). The Bible tells us Jesus came from God and was with God when creation was formed and everything that exists today was created through Jesus.

In the end each person must make up his or her own mind on this subject.

Personally I receive the teaching Jesus is the great "I Am" that is able to forgive our sins and I believe it is so.
 
Hello all.

Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.[/I]

This sums up the identity of Jesus. In fact there are many other descriptions of Jesus in the Old Testament.
 
Yes, Jesus is the prophet that Moses spoke of.

actually hekuran if u read the passage carefully, the jews asked about 3 different persons

elijah
jesus
the prophet

i mean that the point of argue is not who fulfills the prophecy of moses

i mean that even if jesus fulfilled the prophecy, there is another prophet the jews were waiting for, cause they asked about jesus and asked about another prophet

then who is that prophet?? did he come or r u still waiting for him?

and again i repeat that someone can't be a prophet and god in the same time
a prophet worship god and is not worshiped
God is worshiped and doesn't worship anyone
 
John3:10-21 Jesus answered and said to him,"Are you the teacher of Israel and do not know these things? Most assuredly I say to you, We speak what we know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? Noone as ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation that the light has come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, t hat they have been done in God.

It seems to me Hammmzzzaaa that you have been presented with the truth of who Jesus is many times over and we here have witnessed to you through the very word of God that tells us Jesus is the Son of God...but you insist on trying to plant doubt and bring discord to this site through your words...the truth is what it is and you can ask all the questions you want and argue it or try to plant doubt, but the truth is right infront of your face and you still won't believe it, but that
does make it any less true...whether you believe it or not the truth remains the truth and that is " Jesus Christ is the very Son of God and that He came into this world to be a sacrifice for us that we may have redemption and forgiveness of sin so that we could have a way to enter into a relationship with God so we may live in heaven for eternity. That is the plain and undeniable truth of my Lord Jesus.

I do not condemn or say this out of anger, but instead out of love because Jesus my Lord is Love and His love is what is inside each of us. I'll not be responding again to this post because I find it fruitless to argue with someone who does not want to see the truth but keeps arguing it...instead I will pray for you that your eyes and heart will be open by Jesus Himself because once we give witness then all we can do is pray and let Jesus do the rest.

God bless you now and always.
 
Umm, are you saying that there is something that God can't do??? Is there anything hard for God to do??

I'd go back and think before I write something that'd sound completely silly and ridiculous.
 
From the beginning of His life the Scriptures make clear Jesus was indeed worshipped by men. Matthew 2:2 saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”All through His ministry people worshiped him Matthew 8:2-3: “And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.” Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed.Some worshipped him for who He was, before he did any miracle, others worshipped Him afterwards.Matt 9:18: “While He spoke these things to them, behold, a ruler came and worshiped Him, saying, “My daughter has just died, but come and lay Your hand on her and she will live.”The same word used for worshipping God is the same word used for Jesus to be worshipped. So if Jesus is not being worshipped neither is the Father. This word for worship in Greek is proskeneo the same word used for worship for the true God and for worship of false Gods. It does not mean one thing for one and another thing for the other. In Hebrew it is Shawkaw which means to prostate down bow worship (Gen.24:26, 48, 52 Gen. 22:5). In Psalm 2:12 it says, “Kiss the Son lest he be angry with you.” The word kiss is a term for worship (chashaq; a primitive root; to cling, i.e. join, (figuratively) to love, delight in... Strongs #2836)Matthew 14:33 Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, “Truly You are the Son of God.” Why? Because the Son of God is God who can receive worship, He is God in the flesh.Jesus said, “that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him” (John 5:23) We this example all through the Scripture.Matthew 15:25: “Then she worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.”“When Jesus walked on the water and made the wind and waves cease, they worshipped Him, saying, truly thou art the Son of God.” (Matthew 14:33). Notice the equating of being the Son of God elicits their worship .Again to equate him as the only Son of God made him equal with the Father and deserving of our worship. This is made clear in John 9:35-38. Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?” He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.” Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him.”When he was resurrected Matthew 28:17: “And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.” Matthew 28:9: “And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, rejoice. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.”Luke 24:51-53: “Now it came to pass, while He blessed them, that He was parted from them and carried up into heaven. And they worshipped Him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy, and were continually in the temple praising and blessing God. Amen.” And so the church has always worshipped the Son of God the same as they worship the Father. All the apostles worshipped God, the Son of God, and taught the church to do the same.We see Peter in Acts 10:25-27 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.” And as he talked with him, he went in and found many who had come together.Cornelius fell at Peter's feet and worshipped. Peter says to him Acts 10:26 I am a man. Obviously this is worship not obeisance (as the Jehovah Witnesses hold to) or there would not be the response of his human nature. Peter the apostle refused worship because he worshiped the true God and knew he, himself, was only a man. Peter could not have worshipped Jesus unless he was more than a man.The Bible teaches that Jesus was not only worshipped but also called God by Thomas. In Jn.20:28 after Jesus tells Thomas who doubted to put his fingers in the holes made by the crucifixion, Thomas states “My Lord my God” (in the Greek literally translated The Lord of me the God of me). Instead of being corrected or rebuked for this statement (which would be blasphemy if false), he is commended and blessed, something no true prophet would do unless it was correct.If Jesus is not God, then he would not accept worship nor would the Bible allow this to be insinuated.
No angel or man who was godly ever accepted worship from men even when they were mistaken. A good example of this is when Paul was in Athens (Acts 14:12) and the people cried out they are gods, they responded resoundly, “we are men like yourselves.”
 
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Why not, what do you base this on?
I explained in my reply

A prophet worship god and isn't worshiped
An God is worshiped and doesn't worship anyone

So how can someone be both? This isn't possible

A prophet is sent by god
And god sends prophets

So how can someone be the sender and the messenger in the same time? This isn't possible cause combining between contradictions is not possible

And any way the point here is that the Jews were waiting for someone else other than Jesus cause they asked about Jesus and about another prophet, they asked about 2 different persons

So who is that prophet? Did he come or r christians still waiting for him?
 
The delegation from Jerusalem asked John the Baptist if he the fulfillment of the prophecies of Elijah, the Christ, or of the Prophet. John the Baptist denied being the fulfillment of all three.

I believe that the Bible teaches that Jesus is the fulfillment of two of these prophecies. The text does not demand that they are separate persons. There is no contradiction here, unless you make the assumption that a person cannot be both the Christ and the Prophet .

Most of us embody several roles at one time - father, leader, teacher, colleague, husband, son, follower, learner, friend - and it does not cause any difficulty.
 
I explained in my reply

A prophet worship god and isn't worshiped
An God is worshiped and doesn't worship anyone

So how can someone be both? This isn't possible

A prophet is sent by god
And god sends prophets

So how can someone be the sender and the messenger in the same time? This isn't possible cause combining between contradictions is not possible

And any way the point here is that the Jews were waiting for someone else other than Jesus cause they asked about Jesus and about another prophet, they asked about 2 different persons

So who is that prophet? Did he come or r christians still waiting for him?

So basically this is based on your own opinion and reasoning.

The scriptures tell us that Jesus the one and only Son of God stepped down from His position to be born in the flesh.

You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. Instead, he gave up his divine privileges ;he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form, he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal’s death on a cross. Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil 2:5-11 (NLT)
 
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