John 1:1- the CONTEXT and Christ!

[th1bill]

John 8:57- The Jews then said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”
58- Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am. (A mistranslation. It should read "existed")

When read in context, that is what it says.

 

[B-A-C]

John 8:57- The Jews then said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”
58- Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am. (A mistranslation. It should read "existed")

It's not a mistranlation. But if it was, why do think Jesus existed before Abraham? Why did Jesus exist for at least a few thousand years before He came as a human?
What kind of being was He? If He isn't human, and He isn't a angel... what is He?

You seem to be hung up on one God equals one being. Why can't one God be three beings?

The spirit of humans doesn't exist before there is a human body. Yet Jesus existed before He had a body. How is that?

1Cor 15:44; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1Cor 15:45; So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1Cor 15:46; However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
1Cor 15:47; The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.

 

[B-A-C]

John 8:57;
(AMPC) Jesus replied, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I AM. [Exo_3:14]
(ASV) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.
(BBE) Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I am.
(CEV) Jesus answered, "I tell you for certain that even before Abraham was, I was, and I am."
(CSB) Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.”
(ESV) Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
(GNB) "I am telling you the truth," Jesus replied. "Before Abraham was born, 'I Am'."
(Greek NT) εἶπεν αὐτοῖς ᾿Ιησοῦς· ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν ᾿Αβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.
(GW) Jesus told them, "I can guarantee this truth: Before Abraham was ever born, I am."
(HCSB) Jesus said to them, "I assure you: Before Abraham was, I am."
(ISV) Jesus told them, "Truly, I tell all of you with certainty, before there was an Abraham, I AM!"
(KJV) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(LSV) Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham’s coming—I AM”;
(MKJV) Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!
(MSG) "Believe me," said Jesus, "I am who I am long before Abraham was anything."
(NAS77) Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
(NAS95) Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
(NET) Jesus said to them, “I tell you the solemn truth, before Abraham came into existence, I am!”
(NIrV) "What I'm about to tell you is true," Jesus answered. "Before Abraham was born, I am!"
(NIV) "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
(NKJV) Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
(NLT) Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I AM!”
(RV) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(TPT) Jesus said to them, “I give you this eternal truth: I have existed long before Abraham was born, for I AM!”

Exod 3:13; Then Moses said to God, "Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you.' Now they may say to me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?"
Exod 3:14; God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

 

[B-A-C]

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

There is nothing that exists that Jesus didnt create. The heavens, the Earth, the universe itself... Jesus created.

Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

... and yet the Bible says God created the heavens and the Earth.

Gen 1:1; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

God created the heavens and the Earth... Jesus created the heavens and the Earth... so obviously Jesus is ... ?

Gen 1:26; Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Who is the "Our" here? Our means multiple persons.

 

[B-A-C]

Php 2:5; Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6; who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be held onto at the time,
Php 2:7; but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Jesus existed as God.

Col 2:9; For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

 

[B-A-C]

And Trinitarians think Jesus is his own father!

I don't know a single trinitatrian that believes that. I've never read a single trinitarian statement that says that. In fact it wouldn't be a trinity if wasn't a wasn't a Father, Spirit and a Son.

You may be confusing The Triune Theology with Modalism. There are a number of Modalists here on TalkJesus.

Modalistic Monarchianism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[complete]

@QuestionIt,
@B-A-C
@Samson2020
@Curtis
@th1bill

'In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by Him;
and without Him was not any thing made that was made.
In Him was life;
and the life was the light of men.'
(Joh 1:1-4)

'Put off thy shoes from thy feet:
for the place where thou standest is holy ground.'
(Act 7:33b & Exodus 3:5)

 

[complete]

'That which was from the beginning,
.. which we have heard,
.... which we have seen with our eyes,
...... which we have looked upon,
........ and our hands have handled,
.......... of the Word of life;
(For the life was manifested,
.. and we have seen it,
.... and bear witness,
...... and shew unto you that eternal life,
........ which was with the Father,
.......... and was manifested unto us )
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you,
.. that ye also may have fellowship with us:
.... and truly our fellowship is with the Father,
...... and with His Son Jesus Christ.
........ And these things write we unto you,
.......... that your joy may be full.'
(1 John 1:1-4)

Praise God!

 

[complete]

'God, Who at sundry times and in divers manners
.. spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
.... Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son,
...... Whom He hath appointed heir of all things,
........ by Whom also He made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of His glory,
.. and the express image of Hs person,
.... and upholding all things by the word of His power,
...... when He had by Himself purged our sins,
........ sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;'
(Hebrews 1:1-3)

 

[QuestionIt]

I am sorry for the need to say this but that is a thoughtless question. YWH created everything we see, touch, feel, and reach for to our benefit. As unfathomably huge as our Time/Space Continuum appears to us, our Elohim is larger and there is no escape from Him anywhere.

Just how large is YHWH? Flip me over and call me Done... I do not know and I might never know or care. He created everything there is and that makes Him so powerful that I, a died in the wool Pro-military nut, do bow down to humble myself before Him in worship and to offer my service to Him without limit.

There are a number of things that deny all answers. YHWH is the force, God if one chooses, that is constant throughout all time recorded or otherwise. The argument by the idiots claiming The Big Bang holds the answer are more thoughtless that the plastic bottle Soda Waters are sold in.

Empirical Science demands this is untrue, a lie! Nothing in the Scientific Method hints at this being true. No, it is not true and yet something, unknown to our natural senses, started this mess, and the answer is Our Elohim, Him that speaks to the heart of men when they seek to find Him.

I have heard so many answer this thought with so many thoughtless answers that at my age, it's tiring. But the truth is that when I humbled myself, the first time, He let me know He was there with me. It really is that simple.

Do all Baptists Babble? Is that while they are called BAptists?

 

[QuestionIt]

That is an interesting corkscrew but it is a lie.

REALLY? Then Jesus said "when you've seen me you've seen the Father" didn't MEAN that, as many Trinitarians said it DID?

 

[QuestionIt]

When read in context, that is what it says.

Hmmmm!
Jesus was deflecting and speaking ebonics?
Not in your demented dreams!
He said what the word MEANT "was, existed".

 

[QuestionIt]

It's not a mistranlation. But if it was, why do think Jesus existed before Abraham? Why did Jesus exist for at least a few thousand years before He came as a human?
What kind of being was He? If He isn't human, and He isn't a angel... what is He?

You seem to be hung up on one God equals one being. Why can't one God be three beings?

The spirit of humans doesn't exist before there is a human body. Yet Jesus existed before He had a body. How is that?

1Cor 15:44; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1Cor 15:45; So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1Cor 15:46; However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
1Cor 15:47; The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.

Because he was the Firstborn son of God, which Jehovah used ("through") to make all things.

 

[QuestionIt]

John 8:57;
(AMPC) Jesus replied, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, before Abraham was born, I AM. [Exo_3:14]
(ASV) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.
(BBE) Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I am.
(CEV) Jesus answered, "I tell you for certain that even before Abraham was, I was, and I am."
(CSB) Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.”
(ESV) Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
(GNB) "I am telling you the truth," Jesus replied. "Before Abraham was born, 'I Am'."
(Greek NT) εἶπεν αὐτοῖς ᾿Ιησοῦς· ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν ᾿Αβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.
(GW) Jesus told them, "I can guarantee this truth: Before Abraham was ever born, I am."
(HCSB) Jesus said to them, "I assure you: Before Abraham was, I am."
(ISV) Jesus told them, "Truly, I tell all of you with certainty, before there was an Abraham, I AM!"
(KJV) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(LSV) Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham’s coming—I AM”;
(MKJV) Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!
(MSG) "Believe me," said Jesus, "I am who I am long before Abraham was anything."
(NAS77) Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
(NAS95) Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
(NET) Jesus said to them, “I tell you the solemn truth, before Abraham came into existence, I am!”
(NIrV) "What I'm about to tell you is true," Jesus answered. "Before Abraham was born, I am!"
(NIV) "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
(NKJV) Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
(NLT) Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I AM!”
(RV) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(TPT) Jesus said to them, “I give you this eternal truth: I have existed long before Abraham was born, for I AM!”

Exod 3:13; Then Moses said to God, "Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you.' Now they may say to me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?"
Exod 3:14; God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Leave it to a Trinnie to omit the most IMPORTANT PART~

Ex 3:14- And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15- And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
>>> Jehovah, <<<
the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you:
>>> this is my name FOREVER, <<<
and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Neither Judiasm, Koine Greek, nor the foul Trinity Dogma can change that.
FINALLY, the Name "Jesus" in Hebrew means "the Salvation of JEHOVAH"!
Thus, REAL Christians honor BOTH names, while churchoids just PRETEND to honor one...

 

[QuestionIt]

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

There is nothing that exists that Jesus didnt create. The heavens, the Earth, the universe itself... Jesus created.

Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

... and yet the Bible says God created the heavens and the Earth.

Gen 1:1; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

God created the heavens and the Earth... Jesus created the heavens and the Earth... so obviously Jesus is ... ?

Gen 1:26; Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Who is the "Our" here? Our means multiple persons.

Jehovah didn't reveal His son until MUCH later! (Whom He made all thing THROUGH)

 

[QuestionIt]

Php 2:5; Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6; who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be held onto at the time,
Php 2:7; but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Jesus existed as God.

Col 2:9; For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

So, God cannot DIE: who did?

 

[Samson2020]

So, God cannot DIE: who did?

Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did through Him in your midst............. Acts 2:22

Rev 3:14.........These things saith the Amen, the true and faithful witness, the BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD." The words that God gave Jesus to give to us

Jesus was a witness to who? His Father, and the Fathers word/plan, thus Jesus' ministry was to sow the word/plan. If one is sowing the word as a witness to Gods
truth then How can Jesus be the WORD of God as He then would be sowing His own plan, not the Fathers and be a witness unto Himself, which He was not.
The sown word of God is Sonship in seed form bringing to perfection a new creature that is called a son of the living God. Jesus was the first to complete the process proving
that the WORD He was sowing worked in Him as it will in us. This is the WORD made flesh.

Jesus was the first man to ever receive an actual baptism in the Spirit of God, which remained on/in Him, He thus was given life to have within Himself. Two births, physical first, spiritual second exactly like us. That said He must not have had life within Himself prior to the giving. This then gives visualization to the beginning of the New Creatures that God was creating.
A new race of beings that would have all the characteristics of their Father. "You must be born again" Two births which He himself took part in.

After receiving that baptism His spiritual perfecting heated up as He was required to deliver the WORD/PLAN of Sonship and bring the New life that was GIVEN Him to perfection.
Thus the word/plan made flesh.
Jesus having been perfected through sufferings was indeed sinless but yet not perfect until after the perfecting process. Thus He could not be God as God is perfect. He being perfected
was then proclaimed to be a God by the Father. But why wouldn't He? As the Father perfected Him in order to make Him the caption of our salvation and would not pass the torch,
so to speak, to one that was not chastised and proven worthy of that honor.
God gave Jesus life to have within Himself, and now Jesus gives to us the same life that He obtained, in seed form, and we, as Him, must complete the process that brings forth a perfected
son of God. Thus "FOLLOW ME" if you would come to the same place I am.

I, being the Son of God, am the truth, as I am the plan of God for all mankind. I, the Son of God am the way, as I have proven that the process of perfecting unto Sonship is valid by
being resurrected from among the dead.
I, the Son of God am the life in that giving of the Holy Ghost through baptism is mine alone to give, according to whom the Father has given to me to give it to.

Truly trinity doctrine is irrelevant in that Jesus is a God, in the sense that death has no dominion over Him any longer, and that He is now a life giving Spirit Himself, The author
of eternal salvation, but still in subjection to the Father, as the Father decides whom will sit at Jesus' left and right hand in the kingdom, and also decides who will receive life from
His Son in this the first death. The Father only had the Lambs book of life until the Lamb was found worthy to take it from the hand of the Father because He (Jesus) was slain.

Move on unto perfecting, if God be willing, as the other things are less worthy of what time you have left.

 

[QuestionIt]

Php 2:5; Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6; who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be held onto at the time,
Php 2:7; but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Jesus existed as God.

Col 2:9; For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

God CANNOT die! Who DID?

 

[Curtis]

No man could ever raise himself up from the "dead" unless that man was God!

Joh 10:17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
Joh 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

Jesus had the power not only to lay down his life of his own will, and he also had the power to raise Himself up from the dead!

Only a God-man could do that!

Act 13:30 But God raised him from the dead:

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead.

Jesus was not alone in raising himself up from the dead as His Father also participated in his resurrection!

Jesus said.......

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
Joh 2:20 The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?”
Joh 2:21 But he was speaking about the temple of his body.

Rom 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

It was not just "God the Father", and "God the Son" in raising Jesus from the dead it was also "God the Holy Spirit!"

 

[QuestionIt]

No man could ever raise himself up from the "dead" unless that man was God!

Spoken just like the Pharisees. So, God DIED?