KJV questions

[Makahiya2028]

You must read the opening statements.
I am not a KJV-Only .
I believe all scripture is given by inspiration of God.
I don't think a translation is necessarily inferior.
I think translations can be given by inspiration,
like the verses taken from the Hebrew O.T.,
translated into Greek and placed into the N.T.

This is a critical concept necessary to understanding bible canonization .

In fact, I was translated into the kingdom of God .
KJV Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

The Lord preserved his words, not the church(s) or the scholars .

KJV Psalms 12:6-7
6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

God could do that because, well . . . he is God and he said he would .


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[Makahiya2028]

Please read post #54 and post #56

Obviously, God does not come and read to us the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ .
We read it from a Bible or hear someone else read it to us .
Then the Holy Spirit teaches us the meaning of the scripture .

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[Travis]

lol, the definition of the word scripture is written words.

I bow out of this discussion .

Are you laughing at me?

That's not very nice.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Makahiya2028]

No, please, read my rewritten statement, where I clarified myself for fear of being misunderstood .

Travis, I promise, the word scripture means written words .

KJV These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God;
that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
KJV And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
KJV These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind,
and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.



1828 Webster Dictionary
SCRIPTURE, n. [L. scriptura, from scribo, to write.]

U.S.A. Bible Society
The word scripture is an exclusive reference to the inspired books of the Holy Bible .


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[Makahiya2028]

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

1 Corinthians 15:3-4
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

We read the scriptures and then the Holy Spirit teaches us the meaning of the scripture .

I believe I have scripture and I think the purified text theory answers the questions of bible canonization
and I think the record theory answers the questions of final canonization .
My profession of faith matches what I saying.

If you believe only the original manuscripts were given by inspiration of God,
what are you thinking when you refer to a translation as "scripture" ?


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[Travis]

Travis, I promise, the word scripture means written words .
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I'm aware

The scriptures are most definitely what is recorded, what is written down. The Lord knew everything that would be written before it was written though. And that which the word of God testifies concerning, the Logos (Jesus Christ) who became flesh, has always existed. In a round about way, I suppose the point I was making is that although the scriptures are recorded in a certain language, dumbed down for us to be able to comprehend, the concepts located therein are timeless and eternal and transcend any human language. The Lord condescended to our level to make the scriptures what they are, to be understandable to us. But scripture is more than just words on a page, its the ideas, the concepts, the truth behind such. But in order to get the best precision regarding what the scriptures say, one must look at them in their original context, which includes their original language, who wrote them, the use of the words used at that time and place, connotations of such, etc etc. It's all a big package. When scriptures are translated to English, there is no way around the fact of some of such connotation and such being lost, like in John 21 and the different types of love.

Imagine someone who knew Koine very very well, a native speaker. Say they knew English just as well. Now, if they picked up a copy of the KJV, and had never read a Greek New Testament of any sort before, and they decided to translate the KJV into Koine Greek, do you think it would turn out even mildly close to the original Greek manuscripts? I bet it would be incredibly far off, even if they did a phenomenal job of translating it. There is just so much subtelty that is lost in translation from the original languages to a language like English. English does not contain the ability to convey all the concepts and such that are in the original in the same way, to the same depth that the original can. It's impossible to get all the nuance translated, without making some sort of expanded translation with tons of notes n such at the bottom.

Did God have his hand on the translation of various versions of English bibles? Most likely. Is any one of said translations on the same level as the original manuscripts in the original languages? Not a chance.

Blessings!

Travis

 

[Travis]

Please brother, I need a yes or no .

Jesus wouldn't answer a yes or no question like that one. Catch 22

13 And they sent to him some of the Pharisees and some of the Herodians, to trap him in his talk. 14 And they came and said to him, "Teacher, we know that you are true and do not care about anyone's opinion. For you are not swayed by appearances, but truly teach the way of God. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not? Should we pay them, or should we not?" 15 But, knowing their hypocrisy, he said to them, "Why put me to the test? Bring me a denarius and let me look at it." 16 And they brought one. And he said to them, "Whose likeness and inscription is this?" They said to him, "Caesar's." 17 Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they marveled at him. - Mark 12:13-17

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Makahiya2028]

No, the word scripture means written words.
You can't make stuff up and change the definitions of words.

1828 Webster Dictionary
SCRIPTURE, n. [L. scriptura, from scribo, to write.]

U.S.A. Bible Society
The word scripture is an exclusive reference to the inspired books of the Holy Bible .


You really don't understand the issue.


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[Travis]

You really don't understand the issue.

OK,

Didn't mean to upset you.

 

[Makahiya2028]

I am not upset.
I'm not here to share my feelings.
This is an academic discussion and we debating the definition of the word scripture .

I have 16 word dictionaries and 14 bible commentaries.
They all say the same thing .

Easton Bible Dictionary
Scripture, collection of sacred writings

Fausset Bible Dictionary
Appropriated in the Bible to the sacred writings

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
sacred writings

Torrey's New Topical Textbook
Written for our instruction


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[Makahiya2028]

Come on Travis, brother, be sincere, help me, yes or no .

Do you have scripture (sacred writing) given by inspiration of God ?



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[Ophel]

Come on Travis, brother, be sincere, help me, yes or no .

Do you have scripture (sacred writing) given by inspiration of God ?



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Let me answer: YES.

 

[Travis]

Sincerity is my strongest quality by far.

Scripture. Are we speaking (koine wise anyway) of rhema, graphe, or logos? I apologize for the transliterations, but I'm on a phone.

The bible is pretty black and white. But it doesn't always seem to be as black and white concerning issues we try to make it black and white about. I think that's often because we are asking the wrong questions or coming about things the wrong way.

Who is qualified to canonize scripture anyway?

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

May I ask?
Who said the word, "scripture" is exactly what the 'original' word means
and is our modern idea of the word, "scripture", the same as what the Latin folk figured it to be?

Bless you ....><>

 

[Makahiya2028]

Ophel, thank you !

Let me ask you a question, not to doubtful disputation,
envy, strive or contention, but in sincerity and love.

Explain to me how an English translation of a reconstructed Greek N.T. Text was given by inspiration of God ?


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[Makahiya2028]

Br. Bear, Sir, how are we doing, ok ?

Ophel is the first one to respond to issue or even acknowledge the problem .

I think this is going to be a valuable dialogue .

 

[Makahiya2028]

The text I quoted is the AV 1611 KJV Holy Bible first edition .
The definitions of the words of this 1611 text are found in the text itself
and have been in print from 1611 to 1828 Webster .

I have 16 word dictionaries and 14 bible commentaries.
They all say the exact same thing .
That conversation was silly .

I know people have not examined Codex Vaticanus or Origen's Hexapla
and are not able to contrast the redaction theory, accommodation theory,
J.E.P.D. hypothesis, Q-document theory with the purified text theory and record theory ,
but they shouldn't make stuff up and change the definitions of the words of the KJV Holy Bible or the U.S. Constitution .





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[Ophel]

Ophel, thank you !

Let me ask you a question, not to doubtful disputation,
envy, strive or contention, but in sincerity and love.

Explain to me how an English translation of a reconstructed Greek N.T. Text was given by inspiration of God ?


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How else? By the Lord speaking to the translator by His Spirit and showing Him how to translate the words with just the right meaning and nuance that He inspired them in the first place. I trust my God to have done just that, as we in this age are no less important and deserving of the truth of His word than anyone else who has ever lived. Do you trust the Father in that same way?

 

[Makahiya2028]

Nice, I like that statement !
The problem today is there are over 300 English Bibles
which do not match in content, volume or doctrine .
Obviously, there are Holy Bibles and there are Corrupt Bibles .

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[Ophel]

Nice, I like that statement !
The problem today is there are over 300 English Bibles
which do not match in content, volume or doctrine .
Obviously, there are Holy Bibles and there are Corrupt Bibles .

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Of the several translations of the Bible I read from, none have been incongruent...so I have not come across a corrupt translation, although there are translations put out by ungodly people with an agenda such as the homosexual agenda, and the New Age agenda, and the Watchtower agenda...not to mention the Catholic bible, as well, for examples.