Limited atonement !

[Brightfame52]

The truth of limited atonement is vital to the Christian Gospel, there's no Gospel without it. See 1 Cor 15:3. It refers specifically to the Death of Christ on the Cross, which death fully satisfied the law and justice of God for not all human beings but only for a certain group, the elect of God, Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

Now let's get one thing understood, when i speak of limited atonement, i don't mean by any means that Christ atoning death is limited in its power, but that its limited in that it doesn't cover or apply to everyone, but only applies to and covers the elect or chosen of God or the Church of God in Christ, or Gods Sheep.

 

[B-A-C]

Sorry, no predestination, we were ALL chosen before the foundation of the world, not you or me specifically, but everyone.
That doesn't mean everyone will be saved. People have the power to reject God, and many will.

1Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Acts 10:34; Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality,
Acts 10:35; but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.

God doesn't choose for anyone NOT to be saved. No one can stand before the judgment seat and tell God the reason they weren't saved is because God chose them not to be.

1Jn 2:2; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

The truth of limited atonement is vital to the Christian Gospel, there's no Gospel without it. See 1 Cor 15:3. It refers specifically to the Death of Christ on the Cross, which death fully satisfied the law and justice of God for not all human beings but only for a certain group, the elect of God, Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

Now let's get one thing understood, when i speak of limited atonement, i don't mean by any means that Christ atoning death is limited in its power, but that its limited in that it doesn't cover or apply to everyone, but only applies to and covers the elect or chosen of God or the Church of God in Christ, or Gods Sheep.

Now, let's get one thing understood....You CANNOT take one single verse and build an entire doctrine on it. You CANNOT understand the Word without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, yet so many Christians insist in leaving Him behind and even trying to teach Him....Jesus died for ALL people not a select group.

 

[Brightfame52]

Now, let's get one thing understood....You CANNOT take one single verse and build an entire doctrine on it. You CANNOT understand the Word without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, yet so many Christians insist in leaving Him behind and even trying to teach Him....Jesus died for ALL people not a select group.

There is more verses coming.

 

[Hekuran]

The truth of limited atonement is vital to the Christian Gospel, there's no Gospel without it.

This is not true. In my experience abstract discussions on such subjects are a huge distraction and waste of energy.

It might be a complex and satisfying conundrum to solve, but it has very, very little power to do anything useful in the Christian life.

By useful I mean serve Jesus, love our neighbours, nurture the fruit of the spirit, proclaim the resurrection, endure times of trial.

I predict several pages of impotent to and fro from people who have dug into their theological positions without fully understanding them, or understanding the other side of the debate. Including more or less nothing that helps anyone mature in their faith.

 

[Brightfame52]

Limited atonement is taught plainly in scripture !

Even though the natural man will attempt to explain away the truth of God as to who Christ specifically came to saved through His blood, yet the testimony of God is true and all men liars.

That Christs death is limited to only a certain segment of men is seen here , a clear statement limiting the recipients of His Death, the Angelic heavenly testimony here Matt 1:20-21

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.


21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

His People here is another way of saying His Elect/Sheep/Church !

 

[Hekuran]

Limited atonement is taught plainly in scripture !

Even though the natural man will attempt to explain away the truth of God as to who Christ specifically came to saved through His blood, yet the testimony of God is true and all men liars.

That Christs death is limited to only a certain segment of men is seen here , a clear statement limiting the recipients of His Death, the Angelic heavenly testimony here Matt 1:20-21

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.


21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

His People here is another way of saying His Elect/Sheep/Church !

How does this doctrine shape the way you pray?
How does holding this doctrine affect the way you share the good news of Jesus Christ?
What are its implications for discipleship?

 

[Brightfame52]

How does this doctrine shape the way you pray?
How does holding this doctrine affect the way you share the good news of Jesus Christ?
What are its implications for discipleship?

Sorry this discussion isnt about my life. Did you understand the post point ? Is it anything stated specifically regarding who Christ shall save ?

 

[Hekuran]

Sorry this discussion isnt about my life. Did you understand the post point ? Is it anything stated specifically regarding who Christ shall save ?

My point is that abstract discussion of these kinds of technical doctrine issues have very little to do with faithfully following Jesus and so do nothing other than cause petty divisions and distract from pursuing healthy discipleship.

 

[Rockerduck]

It is the Lord who saves, no one else. God had sovereign power over all aspects of salvation. Notice not everyone is being saved, only those who the Lord has added.

Acts 2:46-47 - 46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

 

[Rockerduck]

My point is that abstract discussion of these kinds of technical doctrine issues have very little to do with faithfully following Jesus and so do nothing other than cause petty divisions and distract from pursuing healthy discipleship.

I agree. Titus 3:2 - to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men.

 

[Brightfame52]

My point is that abstract discussion of these kinds of technical doctrine issues have very little to do with faithfully following Jesus and so do nothing other than cause petty divisions and distract from pursuing healthy discipleship.

if you dont mind please discuss the topic, if you want to talk about discipleship please start a thread on it

 

[Butch5]

The truth of limited atonement is vital to the Christian Gospel, there's no Gospel without it. See 1 Cor 15:3. It refers specifically to the Death of Christ on the Cross, which death fully satisfied the law and justice of God for not all human beings but only for a certain group, the elect of God, Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

Now let's get one thing understood, when i speak of limited atonement, i don't mean by any means that Christ atoning death is limited in its power, but that its limited in that it doesn't cover or apply to everyone, but only applies to and covers the elect or chosen of God or the Church of God in Christ, or Gods Sheep.

With all of the literature available it's hard to believe people still hold these Gnostic ideas.

The atonement is not limited in scope. That idea is derived from misunderstanding and misappropriating Scripture. The doctrine of Election pertains to Israel. A person is either in or out, but it's their choice.

 

[Rockerduck]

With all of the literature available it's hard to believe people still hold these Gnostic ideas.

The atonement is not limited in scope. That idea is derived from misunderstanding and misappropriating Scripture. The doctrine of Election pertains to Israel. A person is either in or out, but it's their choice.

God has sovereign power over all aspects of salvation. A human cannot save himself, it is all God, and its a gift.

 

[Butch5]

God has sovereign power over all aspects of salvation. A human cannot save himself, it is all God, and its a gift.

God is sovereign. However, the definition of sovereign is not controlling everything. The human can't save himself argument is a straw man. I don't know any one who thinks he can save himself.

 

[Curtis]

God is the only one who knows all who will be saved and that only after the Gospel has been preached to every creature under Heaven. Everyone (all) is given the opportunity to choose either life or death.

 

[Brightfame52]

Another passage of scripture that evidences the range of the death of Christ Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.


Now Christ Sheep and His People are One and the same. Lets look at a Psalm for proof Ps 100:3

3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

And since scripture evidences that some of His Sheep are non jews/gentiles by Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep[gentiles] I have, which are not of this[jewish] fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Then its spiritually logical that His People in Matt 1:21 are not all of the jewish fold but also from among the gentile fold. Thats what James meant here Acts 15:14

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

 

[Butch5]

Another passage of scripture that evidences the range of the death of Christ Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.


Now Christ Sheep and His People are One and the same. Lets look at a Psalm for proof Ps 100:3

3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

And since scripture evidences that some of His Sheep are non jews/gentiles by Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep[gentiles] I have, which are not of this[jewish] fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Then its spiritually logical that His People in Matt 1:21 are not all of the jewish fold but also from among the gentile fold. Thats what James meant here Acts 15:14

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

The sheep were Israel. So, I guess you're saying only Israelites can saved, correct?

 

[Brightfame52]

The sheep were Israel. So, I guess you're saying only Israelites can saved, correct?

False

 

[Butch5]

False

And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The Holy Bible: King James Version. 2009. Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

He was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. If, as you claim, He only died for His sheep, then only Israelites can be saved.

My offer still stands. If you'd like to get together and discuss these issues just let me know.