Married spiritually but not legally

[Brother-Paul]

What is marriage in God's eyes?

Let us start by looking at the Jewish culture at the time of Jesus.

Is what we do today in the western world right? No!

Now a days, people have a marriage ceremony, then reception, then go on honeymoon, Was it like that at the time of Jesus in Galilee, No!

We cannot say, well we are a different culture, this is what we do today, or Christian's do it this way, and Jews did it their way.

When we look at the marriage, at Canaan in Galilee, at the time of Jesus, we see the massive differences.

1 - The groom approaches his hopeful bride.
2 - He offers her wine as way of saying, will you marry me, if she accepts they say their vows in public.

It was common for them to do this near the gates of the city because this was where the law makers would be.

Once she accepted the wine he offered, a covenant was made and they pronounced their vows to each other, at that point they were legally married, they then started the betrothal period; a little like the engagement today except they were then separated and would not meet with each other again for approximately 12 months. But meanwhile they were considered to be legally married from making of the Covenant.

During the 12 month, approximately, the bride would returned home and she would purchased the material for her dress, and make it or have it made, the same applies also for her ladies in waiting, we call bridesmaids. Meanwhile the groom, returned to his father's house, he started to prepare a room there for him and his wife. But they would not see each other again until, the grooms father said, 'go get your bride.'

She, the bride, had to be ready and waiting at all times, lamps trimmed, oil in the lamps and ready, she does not know the day of hour her groom will return for her. The groom prepares the place for his bride; he too has to wait; only his father can say when the groom can 'go get his bride'.

When the father says 'son go get your bride' the shofar is sounded, the trumpet call, and at that point he goes to get her, everyone comes out into the street and will see him, he goes and receives his bride unto himself. Then follows the wedding ceremony and wedding feast.

The Jewish wedding, in Galilee, is totally different to what we see today, and the couple never had sex until they were legally married, in the sight of God, when the Father said the time was right, not before.

The picture of a traditional wedding/marriage at the time of Jesus is a wonderful picture of how a wedding should be. As always, our Lord Jesus Christ, did what he always did, he took everyday things, here the wedding of a man and woman, and showed us heaven through them. It is important to note, the wedding at Canaan in Galilee was Jesus' first miracle, co-incidence, certain not, God-incidence certainly. This first miracle is the thread that leads to the last one, when we, the bride of Christ, the virgin church, the ekklesia, the born again from above believers, will be with our Lord and the Wedding Feast can begin. Jesus, the groom, is longing for his bride, the bride, the church is longing for her groom, but we meanwhile are to prepare ourselves, to be righteous in the sight of God, and wait patiently for the Father to say to Jesus, go get your bride.

Jesus showed us the example of the Wedding feast with the lamb through a wedding in Canaan in Galilee, which our Lord by example show us what a wedding is in the sight of God.

The groom offered his future bride some wine, at this point she accepted or rejected his invitation to marriage; this is God calling us to Jesus, to be born again, to be His Bride, the church, if we accept Jesus unconditionally the covenant between God and us was prepared through Jesus, it happens the moment we accepted Jesus, as brother Curtis says, this is the ring on the finger.

Then comes the betrothal period which we are in now, the church, the bride, the ekklesia, the born again from above believers are preparing ourselves for our groom, for our Lord's coming. The groom went away for a while, to the Father's house in Heaven, He is creating a place for His bride, but He cannot return until the Father says so. Only the Father knows the day and the hour. Like so much in scripture, one item is an image of what is to come, marriage and the wedding feast is one also. Jesus was the master of revelations, his parables give us an insight of heaven, in this first miracle at Canaan in Galilee, we hear the words of Mary, 'do whatever he tells you', or the miracle of the changing of water into 'the best wine', but under the sackcloth of this story is wrapped another incredible parable, I stand in awe praising God.

We are taught what a marriage was like, what a marriage should be like, yet we don't see it in the world we live, weddings today are sex first, ceremony later, which so often as to be as quick as possible as the couple cannot wait to get on honeymoon. Wedding ceremony's have become a means for yet another party and commercial gain for many.

But it wasn't like that, it was not intended to be like that, it wasn't like it at the time of Jesus, and what happened at the time of Jesus was a picture of a true wedding between our Lord and His Church, between the groom, the bride and the father of the groom. The pattern was set for us to learn from, the time line was set for the wedding feast, we are to be virgin brides, preparing for the grooms return, he is coming, our lights must always be trimmed and filled with oil, we are to be ready any hour, any minute, it only needs one step to be fulfilled... the Father saying, 'Son go get your bride'.

Today
1 - The groom approaches his hopeful bride.
2 - He offers her wine (a ring) and asks will you marry me, if she accepts they are betrothed, engaged, promised to each other.
3 - It is not until the wedding ceremony that the covenant is signed, at that point, making the wedding official.

They should not, according to God's Word, have sex before marriage, it is Sin.

 

[Brother-Paul]

There is a film I would highly recommend, it is called 'Before the Wrath'

It talks about the things mentioned above in detail, but also portrays well, the culture and the time.

It is available on Amazon and probably else where, it runs for 1 hour 6 minutes and is worth every minute of our time. It is a blessing.

Jesus constantly took every day items and events and showed us, what is right in God's eyes, and what is sin so that we do not sin, but he constantly showed us the way to heaven

Bless you.

 

[B-A-C]

Having sex with someone doesn't make you married.

Exod 22:16; "If a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay a dowry for her to be his wife.
Exod 22:17; "If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the dowry for virgins.

Lev 21:13; 'He shall take a wife in her virginity.

Deut 22:19; and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl's father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days.

Deut 22:29; then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Having sex with someone doesn't make you married.

Exod 22:16; "If a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay a dowry for her to be his wife.
Exod 22:17; "If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the dowry for virgins.

Lev 21:13; 'He shall take a wife in her virginity.

Deut 22:19; and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl's father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days.

Deut 22:29; then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days.

I thank you for brother for adding the above scriptures, as some think when a man and woman have sex they become one body and are married, They can also quote an odd example in the OT, but it is incorrect.

This is incorrect for all the reasons mentioned in Post 121 above. Sex before the marriage is Sin.

I also say it because, when Jesus was on earth he constantly told the Jews they were wrong with God. Each example he uses is different but each explained they were wrong in their thinking.

One of the things to note, I believe, is Jesus' first miracle was at a wedding feast, the example of that wedding feast was used by Him later to describe, the church as His bride, Jesus the head of His church as the groom, the wine was also very important in each example, that the bride groom would have to go away for a while, but the bride must prepare and be ready for His return. When the Father says the time is right.

Blessings.

 

[Sue D.]

@Brother-Paul -- Re: post 121 -- different cultures and different practices. Yes, we Can say that That does make a difference.

So you believe that Every marriage should be patterned after that of Biblical times?! In the Jewish fashion - why -- just because Jesus was a Jew? It's the concept of Being married Before having sex that's important.

 

[Brother-Paul]

@Brother-Paul -- Re: post 121 -- different cultures and different practices. Yes, we Can say that That does make a difference.

So you believe that Every marriage should be patterned after that of Biblical times?! In the Jewish fashion - why -- just because Jesus was a Jew? It's the concept of Being married Before having sex that's important.

Greeting Sue

Please read what I put and not make your own conclusion from what I didn't put. Thank you.

I explained what happened at the wedding feast at Canaan in Galilee, noting that, as we know, Jesus took everyday items or events, here a wedding, and used them to point us to the Father in heaven and what the Father has planned for our Lord's church.

There are I believe some very important items in the scriptures here John 2:1-12

1 - at a wedding feast
2 - it was the start of Jesus ministry
3 - it is about a wedding of a bride and groom
4 - it clearly emphasising the procedure for the bride and groom to be legally married
5 - it clearly showed the stages required to make it legally binding
6 - it clearly showing the stage at which they were considered married in law

But it also confirmed that the procedure for the bride and groom, was exactly the same as that when Jesus compared himself as the groom, his church as his virgin bride, that he would go back to his father and prepare a place for them to come together, which will be the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. But cannot happen until the Father tells him to return for his bride.

There is more to the wedding at Canaan, than just turning water into wine, and Mary's message remains as important today as it did at Canaan 2000 years ago. 'Do whatever Jesus tells you'

What I shared was the procedure for a legally binding wedding at the time of Jesus

1 - The groom approaches his hopeful bride.
2 - He offers her wine as way of saying, will you marry me, if she accepts they say their vows in public.
3 - That it was common for a couple who wanted to get married to go to the gates of the city, because this was where the law makers would be who would prepare the covenant.

The man would offer the lady he wishes to marry some wine, if she accepted the wine, a covenant was made and they pronounced their vows to each other, at that point they were legally married, they then started the betrothal period, whish is a little like the engagement today except they were then separated and would not meet with each other again for approximately 12 months.

I then compared this with the main items for a legal marriage today.

Today
1 - The groom approaches his hopeful bride.
2 - He offers her a ring and asks will you marry me, if she accepts they are betrothed, which is engaged, they are promised to each other.
3 - It is not until the wedding ceremony that the covenant is signed, at that point, making the wedding official and legally binding.

The same items more or less, with the rings used today not wine.

My post was aimed at doing two things...
One explain the marriage procedure at the time of Jesus, at Canaan in Galilee.

Two, show how closely the wedding procedure was to that of Jesus's description of himself as the groom and the Church as his bride, plus the involvement of the Father and the period of time for which the groom, Jesus would have to be separated from his loving bride.

Three I compared the required elements of the marriage between a man and woman, showing the legal components.

Finally I concluded that sex before marriage is Sin!

No where did I say Sue....'So you believe that Every marriage should be patterned after that of Biblical times?!'

At the time of Jesus, at the time of the marriage at Canaan in Galilee, the Bride would make or have made a dress, nothing like the costly ones purchased today. The groom would go back to his father for the waiting period, there a room would be prepared for them, no honeymoon, no expensive clothing or accessories, just a nice simple wedding, with family, with friends from the close knit community, but it was a happy time. The wedding feast including singing and dancing, eating and drinking, (hence the first miracle) the celebrations often lasted for a full week. I have been to a Jewish gathering and seen and experienced the joyful singing and dancing they would do at a Jewish wedding, it is very uplifting. They would do that every day for up to a week, all this was after the main components of the marriage were fulfilled. A very happy celebration of the marriage of the bride and groom, not elaborate and expensive, none of what has become a commercial acceptance and expectation, everything comes form the heart.

The Jewish wedding at the time of Jesus
1 - The groom approaches his hopeful bride.
2 - He offers her wine as way of saying, will you marry me, if she accepts they say their vows in public
3 - the signing of the covenant.

Today...
1 - The groom approaches his hopeful bride.
2 - He offers her a ring and asks will you marry me, if she accepts they are betrothed, which means they are as we know engaged, they are promised to each other but not yet married.
3 - It is not until the wedding ceremony that the covenant is signed, at that point, making the wedding official and legally binding.

That is all that is needed except witnesses.

The components in both situations are similar; both are legally binding. There has to be, an offer and an acceptance plus a legally binding signed agreement/covenant.

Sex before marriage is Sin
To look at another and have sexual thoughts is Sin
Sex after marriage with another, in thought or in the act is adultery which is Sin.

Sorry if you misunderstood what I put previously, hopefully the above will clarify the details

In His Love

 

[Sue D.]

Thank you for sharing as you have.

All I would add to that is that a marriage ceremony , dress, everything is as simple, inexpensive as the couple wants it to be or as expensive.

And some put more money, thought into the ceremony than they do the relationship / marriage.

Again - thank you.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Thank you for sharing as you have.

All I would add to that is that a marriage ceremony , dress, everything is as simple, inexpensive as the couple wants it to be or as expensive.

And some put more money, thought into the ceremony than they do the relationship / marriage.

Again - thank you.

To many now a days want the temporal things, my daughter was no different, expensive dress, flashy limo, place of worship (called a church by the RCC) marriage, yet she has no beliefs in anything spiritual. Big reception, etc. they want the works. The marriage lasted just a few years, the guy she married would beat her, he even told her to get rid of the thing inside her, their second child.

Marriages now a days is materialism, commercialism, me, me, me. It doesn't have to be that way, it didn't used to be that way.

Marriages now a days is sex first, so often a couple will marry with a child in their arms. It doesn't have to be that way, it didn't used to be that way.

And all this is after a last fling, hen night, stag night, drink, drunk and what ever else happens. It doesn't have to be that way, it didn't used to be that way.

But that is what happens on the wide road that leads to destruction sister isn't it?

Thanks be to God we saw the sign post, the cross of Jesus, thanks be to God for us seeing the light down that narrow road that leads to life.

Thanks be to God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, In Jesus Precious Name. Amen

 

[Sue D.]

@Brother-Paul -- well -- there Are still good Christian people who want to do the right thing with marriage.

A marriage is what the couple makes it to be. And what their friends, family help them make it to be. And, then, there are the young couples who don't listen to their friends, family and go off and do their own things.

 

[Sue D.]

And there are those who hope that being married in a church will help things go 'better'. They marry with all good intentions. And marriage Can change people. The guy who is really nice, helpful Before hand, will become lazy and non-helpful once the wedding has taken place. That happened to a couple I'd known many decades ago. He was a dream come true Before hand, and Then........ and his wife was really disappointed. Maybe He wanted the sex and went along with the marriage and she wanted companionship / a helper and ended up with.......

I don't think that satan wants any marriages to really work. They Take work. It takes two adults -- who Want to make it work -- to enjoy making it work.

 

[PearlB]

Greeting Sue

Please read what I put and not make your own conclusion from what I didn't put. Thank you.

I explained what happened at the wedding feast at Canaan in Galilee, noting that, as we know, Jesus took everyday items or events, here a wedding, and used them to point us to the Father in heaven and what the Father has planned for our Lord's church.

There are I believe some very important items in the scriptures here John 2:1-12

1 - at a wedding feast
2 - it was the start of Jesus ministry
3 - it is about a wedding of a bride and groom
4 - it clearly emphasising the procedure for the bride and groom to be legally married
5 - it clearly showed the stages required to make it legally binding
6 - it clearly showing the stage at which they were considered married in law

But it also confirmed that the procedure for the bride and groom, was exactly the same as that when Jesus compared himself as the groom, his church as his virgin bride, that he would go back to his father and prepare a place for them to come together, which will be the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. But cannot happen until the Father tells him to return for his bride.

There is more to the wedding at Canaan, than just turning water into wine, and Mary's message remains as important today as it did at Canaan 2000 years ago. 'Do whatever Jesus tells you'

What I shared was the procedure for a legally binding wedding at the time of Jesus

1 - The groom approaches his hopeful bride.
2 - He offers her wine as way of saying, will you marry me, if she accepts they say their vows in public.
3 - That it was common for a couple who wanted to get married to go to the gates of the city, because this was where the law makers would be who would prepare the covenant.

The man would offer the lady he wishes to marry some wine, if she accepted the wine, a covenant was made and they pronounced their vows to each other, at that point they were legally married, they then started the betrothal period, whish is a little like the engagement today except they were then separated and would not meet with each other again for approximately 12 months.

I then compared this with the main items for a legal marriage today.

Today
1 - The groom approaches his hopeful bride.
2 - He offers her a ring and asks will you marry me, if she accepts they are betrothed, which is engaged, they are promised to each other.
3 - It is not until the wedding ceremony that the covenant is signed, at that point, making the wedding official and legally binding.

The same items more or less, with the rings used today not wine.

My post was aimed at doing two things...
One explain the marriage procedure at the time of Jesus, at Canaan in Galilee.

Two, show how closely the wedding procedure was to that of Jesus's description of himself as the groom and the Church as his bride, plus the involvement of the Father and the period of time for which the groom, Jesus would have to be separated from his loving bride.

Three I compared the required elements of the marriage between a man and woman, showing the legal components.

Finally I concluded that sex before marriage is Sin!

No where did I say Sue....'So you believe that Every marriage should be patterned after that of Biblical times?!'

At the time of Jesus, at the time of the marriage at Canaan in Galilee, the Bride would make or have made a dress, nothing like the costly ones purchased today. The groom would go back to his father for the waiting period, there a room would be prepared for them, no honeymoon, no expensive clothing or accessories, just a nice simple wedding, with family, with friends from the close knit community, but it was a happy time. The wedding feast including singing and dancing, eating and drinking, (hence the first miracle) the celebrations often lasted for a full week. I have been to a Jewish gathering and seen and experienced the joyful singing and dancing they would do at a Jewish wedding, it is very uplifting. They would do that every day for up to a week, all this was after the main components of the marriage were fulfilled. A very happy celebration of the marriage of the bride and groom, not elaborate and expensive, none of what has become a commercial acceptance and expectation, everything comes form the heart.

The Jewish wedding at the time of Jesus
1 - The groom approaches his hopeful bride.
2 - He offers her wine as way of saying, will you marry me, if she accepts they say their vows in public
3 - the signing of the covenant.

Today...
1 - The groom approaches his hopeful bride.
2 - He offers her a ring and asks will you marry me, if she accepts they are betrothed, which means they are as we know engaged, they are promised to each other but not yet married.
3 - It is not until the wedding ceremony that the covenant is signed, at that point, making the wedding official and legally binding.

That is all that is needed except witnesses.

The components in both situations are similar; both are legally binding. There has to be, an offer and an acceptance plus a legally binding signed agreement/covenant.

Sex before marriage is Sin
To look at another and have sexual thoughts is Sin
Sex after marriage with another, in thought or in the act is adultery which is Sin.

Sorry if you misunderstood what I put previously, hopefully the above will clarify the details

In His Love

To many now a days want the temporal things, my daughter was no different, expensive dress, flashy limo, place of worship (called a church by the RCC) marriage, yet she has no beliefs in anything spiritual. Big reception, etc. they want the works. The marriage lasted just a few years, the guy she married would beat her, he even told her to get rid of the thing inside her, their second child.

My parents were together for thirteen years before I was born and only married when I was on the way. And yet they were together and faithful for over forty years. My husband and I lived together for over a year before we married over fifty years ago. My oldest daughter lived with her husband for a good many years before they had the wedding. My younger daughter had four children when she married their father after almost fifteen years together. The marriages have all lasted because there was true commitment even without a ceremony. To me - and I know you don't agree - we were all 'married' or joined in God's eyes even if not in the eyes of the church. I have never judged their relationship to be sinful because they are not Christians - yet - and neither were we.

 

[Brother-Paul]

@Brother-Paul -- well -- there Are still good Christian people who want to do the right thing with marriage.

A marriage is what the couple makes it to be. And what their friends, family help them make it to be. And, then, there are the young couples who don't listen to their friends, family and go off and do their own things.

True Sue, but as we read earlier, some cannot afford the big wedding with all the trimmings, yet they feel pressured because they can't. They should feel that way, if the couple love each other and want to do the right thing and keep it simple and cost effect, all they need is...

1 - The groom approaches his hopeful bride.
2 - He offers her a ring (is they can afford one) and asks her will you marry me, if she accepts they are betrothed, which means they are as we know engaged, they are promised to each other but not yet married.
3 - It is not until they say their vows and the covenant is signed, with witnesses, at that point, the wedding official and legally binding.

That is all that is needed.

It would be lovely to hear stories from people who have done just that.

My second marriage was that simple. I was a lost soul, as was my wife, we married at a registry office and went back to the flat with small number of family members and three or four others. We put on music and drinks and a small buffet in the evening, in the flat, that was it, no fancy dress etc, no meal afterwards, no honeymoon, we couldn't afford it. We were both sinners, both adulterers, I didn't come to the Lord until approximately 15 years later when all my past sins were washed away and remembered no more PTL. My wife is still not saved, but her heart is searching. God's speed.

Shalom

 

[Brother-Paul]

And there are those who hope that being married in a church will help things go 'better'. They marry with all good intentions. And marriage Can change people. The guy who is really nice, helpful Before hand, will become lazy and non-helpful once the wedding has taken place. That happened to a couple I'd known many decades ago. He was a dream come true Before hand, and Then........ and his wife was really disappointed. Maybe He wanted the sex and went along with the marriage and she wanted companionship / a helper and ended up with.......

I don't think that satan wants any marriages to really work. They Take work. It takes two adults -- who Want to make it work -- to enjoy making it work.

God brings souls together Sue, satan divides and sets apart.

That is why there are so many broken families today

 

[Brother-Paul]

My parents were together for thirteen years before I was born and only married when I was on the way. And yet they were together and faithful for over forty years. My husband and I lived together for over a year before we married over fifty years ago. My oldest daughter lived with her husband for a good many years before they had the wedding. My younger daughter had four children when she married their father after almost fifteen years together. The marriages have all lasted because there was true commitment even without a ceremony. To me - and I know you don't agree - we were all 'married' or joined in God's eyes even if not in the eyes of the church. I have never judged their relationship to be sinful because they are not Christians - yet - and neither were we.

Greetings Pearl,

There is a line that I think some people don't realise, or think about.

I may steal, kill, covet, have sex before marriage, commit adultery and more. But if I am not born again from above, I am a lost soul, I live in the world, I do what the world does, my father is the devil but I do not accept there is a devil, worldly people don't.

Then comes the line, I repent accept Jesus as my saviour, all past sins are washed away and remembered no more,

But when you talk to people they say but you did it, that is the point, I did it, I no longer do it, I am in Christ and Christ is in me.

Now if after accepting Christ into my life I do those thing, I sin, big time, because I know they are wrong, I know they are against God's will. I can still repent, I can still be forgiven but the difference is doing and not knowing because we belong to the world and doing and knowing it is wrong in God's eyes, in the eyes of him who saved us, in the eyes of him who washed away our past sins.

It all depends where that line is, and to each soul it will be in a different place.

I was a hard hearted, selfish, person, partly because my childhood was hell, family was broken and out of control, I had to fight for myself, and woe to anyone that crossed me. I had sex outside marriage from a young age, I could pull the women as it was called, I got married and committed adultery, I was an adulterer with an adulteress, we lived in sin and didn't marry for two years.

But because all these things were before I accepted Christ, all past sins were washed away, I consider myself very fortunate.

When two people have sex, that is not becoming one body, it is sex. Two people becoming one body is when we are married, scripture confirms this, some do mention the old testament and refer to two having sex in a tent and came out married. Jesus came to correct the Jewish thinking of errors in the OT. Divorce was one the Pharisees tried to trick him with, saying Mose's allowed a certificate of divorce, Jesus said, he did because of peoples sins, but it was not like that from the beginning. Neither was marriage, Jesus gave the example we talked about earlier in the thread, taking the wedding at Canaan in Galilee and describing the wedding procedure and comparing it to himself as the groom and the church as the virgin bride.

Sex outside marriage is sin,
Sex after marriage is adultery, also sin
Sex with someone of the same sex, also sin.

Sex is for the marriage bed, of a man and woman in love with each other, that have chosen to, and made vows to each other to live together, forsaking all others, for the rest of their life.

A marriage must consist of, will you marry me, yes I will marry you, the vows, the covenant and the witnesses. That is the main components at the time of Jesus, it is still the main components today, though slightly different, and in a different order.

It is not our job to judge others, but it is our job to share Jesus with them and the good news of salvation. Once a person accepts Jesus, as we know, the heart changes and we want to be right with God.

In His Love.

 

[Sue D.]

I guess that there are always exceptions to every one of God's guidelines. Marriage and sex being the two big ones. 'we' seem to want to do things our own way and are sure that God will bless our decisions. And, Maybe, people feel that the ceremony is really a false sense of security? People are together because they Want to be and not because a piece of paper says they are?!

Lots of food for thought.

A small ceremony with a simple something that constitutes a ring for others to see and us to wear with a smile.

Realizing that this is open forum --will share a bit. There is a guy locally -- known of each other for 5 yrs. -- he decided we needed to discontinue our gmail friendship 6 months ago. The Holy Spirit has been trying to let me know that I'm really okay -- that I need to turn my eyes More on Jesus than on the local guy. I was in counseling with him for two years which ended by my choice about 4 yrs. ago. The deal had been that his clients were his income and then came his tennis -- which he's always been good at. And Then came church when it was convenient. I let him know that a guy needs to be the spiritual leader 1st and then clients and tennis.

There is a guy who's encouraged me to adjust to singleness more and I'll find that it's okay. And I do know several ladies who are older and been widowed far longer than myself. And they are okay with their singlensss. My reality is having been married for 46 yrs. -- have spent most of my life married. Singleness feels somewhat empty.

 

[Sue D.]

I think we have two different threads on the same subject. "many or few" is sort of on this same subject.

 

[PearlB]

Greeting Sue

Please read what I put and not make your own conclusion from what I didn't put. Thank you.

I explained what happened at the wedding feast at Canaan in Galilee, noting that, as we know, Jesus took everyday items or events, here a wedding, and used them to point us to the Father in heaven and what the Father has planned for our Lord's church.

There are I believe some very important items in the scriptures here John 2:1-12

1 - at a wedding feast
2 - it was the start of Jesus ministry
3 - it is about a wedding of a bride and groom
4 - it clearly emphasising the procedure for the bride and groom to be legally married
5 - it clearly showed the stages required to make it legally binding
6 - it clearly showing the stage at which they were considered married in law

But it also confirmed that the procedure for the bride and groom, was exactly the same as that when Jesus compared himself as the groom, his church as his virgin bride, that he would go back to his father and prepare a place for them to come together, which will be the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. But cannot happen until the Father tells him to return for his bride.

There is more to the wedding at Canaan, than just turning water into wine, and Mary's message remains as important today as it did at Canaan 2000 years ago. 'Do whatever Jesus tells you'

What I shared was the procedure for a legally binding wedding at the time of Jesus

1 - The groom approaches his hopeful bride.
2 - He offers her wine as way of saying, will you marry me, if she accepts they say their vows in public.
3 - That it was common for a couple who wanted to get married to go to the gates of the city, because this was where the law makers would be who would prepare the covenant.

The man would offer the lady he wishes to marry some wine, if she accepted the wine, a covenant was made and they pronounced their vows to each other, at that point they were legally married, they then started the betrothal period, whish is a little like the engagement today except they were then separated and would not meet with each other again for approximately 12 months.

I then compared this with the main items for a legal marriage today.

Today
1 - The groom approaches his hopeful bride.
2 - He offers her a ring and asks will you marry me, if she accepts they are betrothed, which is engaged, they are promised to each other.
3 - It is not until the wedding ceremony that the covenant is signed, at that point, making the wedding official and legally binding.

The same items more or less, with the rings used today not wine.

My post was aimed at doing two things...
One explain the marriage procedure at the time of Jesus, at Canaan in Galilee.

Two, show how closely the wedding procedure was to that of Jesus's description of himself as the groom and the Church as his bride, plus the involvement of the Father and the period of time for which the groom, Jesus would have to be separated from his loving bride.

Three I compared the required elements of the marriage between a man and woman, showing the legal components.

Finally I concluded that sex before marriage is Sin!

No where did I say Sue....'So you believe that Every marriage should be patterned after that of Biblical times?!'

At the time of Jesus, at the time of the marriage at Canaan in Galilee, the Bride would make or have made a dress, nothing like the costly ones purchased today. The groom would go back to his father for the waiting period, there a room would be prepared for them, no honeymoon, no expensive clothing or accessories, just a nice simple wedding, with family, with friends from the close knit community, but it was a happy time. The wedding feast including singing and dancing, eating and drinking, (hence the first miracle) the celebrations often lasted for a full week. I have been to a Jewish gathering and seen and experienced the joyful singing and dancing they would do at a Jewish wedding, it is very uplifting. They would do that every day for up to a week, all this was after the main components of the marriage were fulfilled. A very happy celebration of the marriage of the bride and groom, not elaborate and expensive, none of what has become a commercial acceptance and expectation, everything comes form the heart.

The Jewish wedding at the time of Jesus
1 - The groom approaches his hopeful bride.
2 - He offers her wine as way of saying, will you marry me, if she accepts they say their vows in public
3 - the signing of the covenant.

Today...
1 - The groom approaches his hopeful bride.
2 - He offers her a ring and asks will you marry me, if she accepts they are betrothed, which means they are as we know engaged, they are promised to each other but not yet married.
3 - It is not until the wedding ceremony that the covenant is signed, at that point, making the wedding official and legally binding.

That is all that is needed except witnesses.

The components in both situations are similar; both are legally binding. There has to be, an offer and an acceptance plus a legally binding signed agreement/covenant.

Sex before marriage is Sin
To look at another and have sexual thoughts is Sin
Sex after marriage with another, in thought or in the act is adultery which is Sin.

Sorry if you misunderstood what I put previously, hopefully the above will clarify the details

In His Love

 

[PearlB]

When we were married it wasn't in a 'church', I didn't have an engagement ring I didn't even have new dress or a bouquet, or wedding cars. Just him and me, my dad, his mum and brother and a couple of cousins. I made the buffet in our front room and then we went to the pub. I'd post pics if I knew how. His family said it would never last but here we are fifty years on and counting. Oh and he was skint so I paid for my ring - £9.99.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I am married, but not legally. My husband and I can't afford to have a wedding or get rings right now, but we have prayed to god to accept our marriage and have told him that we are married. Do you have to get married by a priest to actually be married in god's eyes?

Marriage is a covenant between two people....A priest, judge, justice or ships captain would only make it official...Honor your marriage, and as far as the Word is concerned you are married.

 

[PearlB]

Marriage is a covenant between two people....A priest, judge, justice or ships captain would only make it official...Honor your marriage, and as far as the Word is concerned you are married.

I so agree.