Mid trib fleeing of Israel

[NoHype]

Thanks Eric, and NoHype. Why do some people say the church won't be here during the tribulation ? And they have so many scriptures.

It's because they are following a tradition that men started, specifically the 1830's pre-trib rapture doctrine that John Darby got from the Irvingite and Brethren movements in Great Britain, which those like Cyrus Scofield then passed on with his Scofield Bible, and then by later followers of that movement. For over 1,800 years up to the 1830's the Christian Church held to a post-tribulation coming of Christ and gathering of the saints.

But that pre-trib doctrine is not the worst doctrine to come from men's tradition. Some believe in Full Preterism which treats Christ's second coming as spiritual, and that it already happened back in the Apostle's days, essentially supposing that Christ's Kingdom has already come on earth today.

 

[DHC]

Hello all.


When reading Matthew's eschatology in chapter twenty four, remember to separate
physical Israel from the Gentile nations. Otherwise your eschatology is useless.
Matthew's Gospel fuses two distinct prophetic revelations together. Luke's Gospel
separates them and rightly so, these are two different events for two different peoples.

Luke 21
20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
(The reign of the theocracy of physical Israel has been terminated. 'her desolation is near', AD 70.)

21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the
city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
(Jerusalem was sacked by Titus in AD 70, physical Israel was no longer a player in the end times.)

22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.
(At this time physical Israel has come to an end. All warnings regarding physical Israel have been fulfilled.)

23 Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there
will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;
(Please note: 'distress upon the land and wrath to this people'. Jesus is talking about the obliteration
of the Old Covenant nation that is Israel. 'to this people' means the Jews. God's wrath on the Jews.)

24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and
Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
( Jerusalem is controlled by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Modern Israel is a secular nation and not the Old Covenant nation during the era of Christ.)

Matthew's Gospel mixes the prophecy pertaining to physical Israel in with the end time events.
In Luke's Gospel these are separate prophecies, one for the end of Israel and another describing
the end of the Gentile age.

If your eschatology does not separate physical Israel from the Gentile age. Then throw the
commentary in the bin where it belongs. No wonder we have so many end time scenarios.

 

[norapture]

NoHype I would agree with u because I've only study the bible and what I know God has showed me not man. Something I having heard most people say on this site. I also agree about the mother harolet for the Lord showed me this also. And far as the Roman Catholic church she is only a daughter like most churches and they all walking in there mothers footsteps

 

[NoHype]

Actually brethren, if you are NOT reading our Lord's Olivet Discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13 as being for all of His Church for the very end of days, both Israelite and Gentile believers, then you will NOT understand the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials our Lord Jesus gave us in His Revelation through Apostle John which... He sent to the 7 Churches in Asia (Asia Minor), which became symbolic of ALL Churches on earth from then to the end of this world with His second coming.

Trying to separate Israel (i.e., believing Israel) from Christ's Church is a doctrine of man. It goes directly against what Apostle Paul taught about believing Jew and Gentile as One Body in Christ Jesus.

 

[NoHype]

NoHype I would agree with u because I've only study the bible and what I know God has showed me not man. Something I having heard most people say on this site. I also agree about the mother harolet for the Lord showed me this also. And far as the Roman Catholic church she is only a daughter like most churches and they all walking in there mothers footsteps

If you study your Bible and listen to our Heavenly Father through His Son and The Holy Spirit, then you will be blessed with understanding as He promised, and like a householder bringing forth out of his treasure things new and old (Matt.13:52).

 

[norapture]

NoHype I have question, about the 144, thousand (firstfruits) Why do people believe this is something that's going to happen. If there is no difference in Jew and gentile and I know there isn't. Rev. 7:9 why after the 144 thousand, all nations? Rev 14:9 these Were redeemed, they are the first fruits.1cor.15:23 . Matt 27:51-53 the graves was open with the earthquake, but didn't come out till after his resurrection. Ever man in his on order

 

[NoHype]

NoHype I have question, about the 144, thousand (firstfruits) Why do people believe this is something that's going to happen. If there is no difference in Jew and gentile and I know there isn't. Rev. 7:9 why after the 144 thousand, all nations? Rev 14:9 these Were redeemed, they are the first fruits.1cor.15:23 . Matt 27:51-53 the graves was open with the earthquake, but didn't come out till after his resurrection. Ever man in his on order

The 144,000 of Rev.7 is about those of the seed of Israel that are 'sealed' with God's seal for the end of days. The majority of them are of the ten lost tribes, since only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi made up the southern kingdom of Judah who were known as Jews from the name Judah. So the 12,000 each of the tribes of Reuben, Gad, Aser (Asher), Nephthalim, Manasses, Simeon, Issachar, Zabulon, Joseph (put for Ephraim), all belong to the ten lost tribes of Israel that were lost even to the Jews per their own history. But per several prophecies in God's Word about them, they will return per Ezekiel 37, Isaiah, Amos, Hosea, etc. In other words, God has not lost them, and even said He will gather them like corn through a sieve and not the least grain will fall to the ground (Amos 9:9).

Then starting at Rev.7:9 it is about believing Gentiles that are sealed. Even though that Rev.7 Scripture does not say that "great multitude" is sealed like those tribes of Israel are, it is surmised by understanding their having come out of tribulation by washing their robes in the Blood of The Lamb (Jesus), which means they overcame the tribulation events. Both of these groups are shown with Christ in final per Rev.14 and Rev.15.

Both groups represent Christ's Church of both believing Israelite and believing Gentile. Some treat that 144,000 of Israel as being all Jews and mainly as unbelieving Jews. Doing that is to miss what that sealing there of Rev.7 is for, as it's related to the subject of the locusts in Rev.9 and the great tribulation timing there. Those that don't have that sealing by God will be subject to the stinging of Rev.9. That's how to know those 144,000 make up part of Christ's Church also.