Mid-tribulation

[David777]

First, the Rapture will be pretribulational. What would the point of the Church going through judgements that are meant to punish and convince the unbelievers to turn from their wicked ways? Additionally, why would they tell believers to be prepared for Jesus coming 'as a thief in the night' if we can measure when He will be coming. The Church WILL be Raptured before the Tribulation begins, however, there will be those who come to Christ during the Tribulation (see Revelations).

Hello Joel Green.

Please be aware Joel that Christians are not ignorant
of the approximate time of Christ's return. As the following
verse states.

1 Thessalonians 5:4
But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you
like a thief.

The day of Christ's return holds no mystery as we are
strictly told of the events that will precede His return.

It does appear from the scriptures that Jesus returns
only once on that "last day". Please note the following
that Jesus returns both to judge and reward on that last
day.

2 Thessalonians 1

...and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us,
when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty
angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not
know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our
Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction,
away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be
marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to
you was believed.

 

[Joel Green]

I am a Christian, and I agree, I am not ignorant of what he Scripture says about the Rapture.

"Because you have kept my command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth."
Revelation 3:10

This verse clearly states that the Church will be exempt from the Tribulation.
And you became followers of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit, so that you became examples to all in Macedonia and Achaia who believe. For from you the word of the Lord has sounded forth, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place. Your faith toward God has gone out, so that we do not need to say anything. For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
I Thessalonians 1:6-10

This one clearly states that we will escape the wrath to come as well (aka The Tribulation)

"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage each other with these words."
I Thessalonians 4:16-18

This verse says we will meet Him in the air, however, when He comes to judge the nations at the end of the Great Tribulation and before the Millennial Kingdom it says that He sets comes WITH the saints (the Church) and SETS FOOT on the Mount of Olives.

3Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Zachariah 14: 3 & 4


So how can we be with Him and not be with Him?

"For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him."
I Thessalonians 5:4,9-10

Once again we escape the wrath to come.

And no, this does not mean that we go through the Tribulation but not the Great Tribulation. That makes no sense. We WILL escape God's Wrath because we are co-heirs of the Kingdom of God in the name of Jesus Christ. We will not have to go through any part of the Tribulation, which will begin soon after the Rapture. We WILL feel the birth pangs (increase of earthquakes, hurricanes, famine, pestilence, wars and rumors of wars, apostasy, false christs, and a hardening of the hearts.)

Our society will resemble the days of Noah and Lot.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

David777,

The day of the Lord is referring to the tribulation period, not the rapture. But the rapture will come before the day of the Lord. So If you know the day of the Lord is near, you know the rapture is even nearer.

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1 Thessalonians 5:1–11 KJV
5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Christians are children of light and we should know the day of the Lord is near!
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.


6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

[Joel Green]

Yes but the tribulation is a seven year period.

 

[David777]

Hello Joel Green.

Thanks for the reply.

The pretribulation interpretation of Revelation 3:10 is faulty me thinks.
Let's quote the context that the verse appears within and attempt to
understand just what our Lord is stating.

To the Church in Philadelphia

Revelations 3

7 “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:
‘The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David,
who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens.

8 “‘I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door,
which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power,
and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that
they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and
bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you.

10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep
you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those
who dwell on the earth.

It may be a faulty interpretation of this verse (Rev 3:10) since only
the church at Philadelphia is promised this. To interpret this passage
as applying to the church 2000 years later would be quite a stretch.

Should you not yield on this point then you are faced with another
verse from:

Revelation 2

10 Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is
about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested,
and for ten days you will have tribulation.

So some Christians will go through a ten day tribulation?
Some Christians are raptured and avoid the tribulation?

It becomes messy to apply your method of interpretation
to other verses in Revelations.

The context of Revelations 10 would exclude a wider meaning.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

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This may be new to you.


Zechariah saw a vision of Jewish people in Jerusalem being rescued. In the middle of the tribulation, the Antichrist will come against Israel because they will not worship him or his image. As the armies of the world close in on the remnant of Israel, everything looks lost and hopeless.
However, at that time, the Lord Jesus will help Israel by making a way of escape. Jesus will split the Mount of Olives from east to west so that it forms a great valley when the two halves of the Mount of Olives move north and south. Israel will flee down that valley to the east while the armies of the world are stranded on the top of the Mount of Olives and all around Jerusalem.

Zechariah 14:1–5a KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided
in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal.

Jesus, the Lamb of God, is going to sit on the throne of Israel. Jesus comes to Israel to split the Mount of Olives so that Israel can flee from the dragon and the Antichrist’s army. Israel will go east, down the Lord’s valley, cross the Jordan River, turn right, and travel about one-third of the way down the other side of the Dead Sea to the river ford or the river crossing on the Arnon River in the country of Jordan and stay with the survivors of Moab.
Keep in mind that Daniel 11:41 tells us that Edom, Moab, and Ammon (Jordan) will escape out of the control of the Antichrist.
God spares Jordan from occupation by the Antichrist because the people of Israel who were not taken to America will be going there to live for three-and-a-half years with the survivors of Moab at the river ford on the Arnon river. Notice that Isaiah 16:3 says that the Lamb will make the noonday as night with a shadow! Remember this verse, because it is a clue to the location of the kingdom of the Antichrist. Later we will

126 AMERICA’S LAST WARNING

see that the shadow is from a permanent solar eclipse over Israel. While
that sounds impossible, nothing is impossible with God.

Isaiah 16:1–5 KJV
1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.
2 For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.
3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.
5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Satan will send a great army of soldiers to pursue the fleeing Jews. Do you remember what happened to the king of Egypt’s armies when they chased Israel through the divided Red Sea in the book of Exodus? (See Exodus 14:21–31.) Something similar is going to happen again. When the army of the Antichrist follows Israel down the valley, the Mount of Olives will swallow them, infuriating Satan.

Revelation 12:15–17 KJV
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Joel Green]

David, me thinks you put more stock in the writtings of the apostles than the prophets. When you look at all the prophecies together, you will see that my viewpoint is correct. Furthermore, the first few chapters of Revelations is referring to different types of Christians, not specific Churches. And, Eric, that verse from Zachariah refers to when Jesus sets foot on the earth at His Second Coming. I've studied these verses for awhile and know what they mean.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

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When Israel flees from Jerusalem after the Lord splits the mount of Olives they must live for 42 months or half the tribulation.


Revelation 11:1–2 KJV
11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The last half of verse two states that the Gentiles (anyone not Jewish) will have control of Jerusalem for forty-two months, or half of the tribulation period. That means the Jews will lose control of the temple and Jerusalem for the last half of the tribulation period.

When the judgment by nuclear fire comes and the unrighteous people are burned to powder as lime, who will survive the burning? Only the righteous and he that walks upright! God said that Israel will go and dwell in the rocks, and He will give them bread and make their water sure or dependable.
When the Lord bodily returns to earth and splits the Mount of Olives so Israel’s army can flee to the east, Israel will go to dwell with the remnant of Moab at the river ford on the Arnon river in Jordan. It is quite likely that God will send manna to Israel as He did in the Old Testament times when they wandered in the wilderness for forty years after leaving Egypt.

Isaiah 33:9–17 KJV
9 The earth mourneth and languisheth: Lebanon is ashamed and hewn down: Sharon is like a wilderness; and Bashan and Carmel shake off their fruits.
10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.
11 Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.
12 And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.
13 Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might.
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
17 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.