Mid-tribulation

Eric E Stahl · Jul 13, 2012

El Hombre Viejo,

At the end of time when the Jews come home from the Russian north " NOW" God also told Zion to also come home from the "Daughter of Babylon"see Zechariah 2:6-7.

Where is the "Daughter of Babylon"? The Daughter of Babylon is where the Jews are now other then Israel.

6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the Lord: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the Lord.
7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon. —Zechariah 2:6–7 KJV

Zechariah 2:6 tells the Jews to come home from the north. About 1,250,000 Russian Jews have gone home to Israel since 1948. Israel now has a population of between 5,500,000 and 6,000,000 Jewish people. Close to 23% of Israel’s population has come from the Russian north since 1948. My mother paid for several Russian Jews’ passage home to Israel. This Bible passage is written for our time!
How did Zechariah know there would be a large population of Jewish people in the north? God told the prophets the future. Read and think about verse seven.
Notice that a group of Jews are still “living with the daughter of Babylon,” when the Russian Jews are going home. Babylon is the name of the Antichrist’s kingdom in Revelation. This Babylon is the political Babylon referred to in Revelation 16:19, which will be destroyed near the end of the tribulation.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
—Revelation 16:19 KJV

The great city is Jerusalem. Babylon is the little horn that will come out of the ten horns of the Roman Empire from Daniel 7:7–8. Political Babylon is also called a young lion, or a colony of Tarshish, from Ezekiel 38:13. The Antichrist will lead the last-days’ Babylon and defeat the Russian alliance.
Please read Zechariah 2:6–7 again and consider this question: Now that the Russian Jews are going home, where are the Jews who are living with the daughter of Babylon? There is only one large group of Jews remaining outside of Israel. There are about 6,000,000 Jews in America.
That’s right! There are about as many Jews in America as there are in Israel! America is the daughter of Babylon who has inherited the super-power status of the Gentile world.
AMERICA, THE LAST BABYLON 37
Now please don’t throw this book away! Continue reading so that you can see the other prophecies in the Bible and get more of your questions answered. How can America, the most Christian nation on earth, be the last-days’ Babylon and future home of the Antichrist? The answer is in the following Bible passages (2 Thessalonians 2:1–12).

Acebopata · Jul 14, 2012

To be perfectly honest, I don't think America is going to even make it to the start of the tribulation period unless the tribulation period begin within two years. Even then, I don't even know.

Eric E Stahl · Jul 15, 2012

Hi Acebopata,

I teach Sunday school in a Baptist Church. I am doing a series on Malachi which shows that the sins of America are following Israel's example. I believe we are about to see famine in the world. We know that famine will come before Jesus. see Matthew 24:7-8.

Eric

DiscipleDave · Sep 6, 2012

Mid-tribulation is what will occur.

there will be a great falling away from the Faith, this occurs because when the Tribulation starts, and Jesus did not come back as most people who believe pre-trib that He would, will fall away from the Faith because He didn't come back when they thought He should have. And this because they have believed the lie that Jesus will come back to get His Church before the Tribulations begins (which is NOWHERE in Scriptures). These people will not believe those who teach anything other than pre-trib, no matter how many Scriptures you show to them to try to help them see the Truth.

^i^

I John 3:6

rodd · Sep 6, 2012

DiscipleDave said:
Mid-tribulation is what will occur.

there will be a great falling away from the Faith, this occurs because when the Tribulation starts, and Jesus did not come back as most people who believe pre-trib that He would, will fall away from the Faith because He didn't come back when they thought He should have. And this because they have believed the lie that Jesus will come back to get His Church before the Tribulations begins (which is NOWHERE in Scriptures). These people will not believe those who teach anything other than pre-trib, no matter how many Scriptures you show to them to try to help them see the Truth.

^i^

I John 3:6

This is true, if you read Revelation you can clearly see that the Antichrist has 42 month of free time to persecute the saints, the rapture occurs at the mid point of the Trib, after that, Gods direct wrath is unleashed on the world, it's not that hard to understand.
That's why he comes like a thief and then he comes so every eye sees, no problem!

Eric E Stahl · Sep 8, 2012

mid tribulation

<style>  </style> The saints will be taken away to heaven before the antichrist is given control of the formerly Christian nations by God.

2 Thessalonians 2:6–12 KJV 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in
his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Paul explains that someone is restraining the Antichrist. When that someone is removed from the scene, the Antichrist will come to power. The Christians who have the Holy Spirit in them are the salt of the earth and the light of the world (Matthew 5:13–16). This means that we, with the influence of the Holy Spirit in us, are presently preventing worldwide corruption the same way that the proper amount of salt preserves country ham. When God calls the Christians up in the air to go to heaven (during the rapture), He will also remove the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit. At that time, the Antichrist will be revealed and come to power after the Christians have gone to heaven. Paul also explains that God will cause everyone who has heard and rejected the truth of the gospel to believe the lie of the Antichrist.

Do you understand what that means?

It means there will be no second chance to be saved (become aspiritually born-again Christian) during the tribulation period for those who rejected Christ before the tribulation period started.

God gives control of the earth to the antichrist at the middle of the tribulation. The antichrist will then persecute the woman Israel and the people saved during the first half of the tribulation. In Revelation 7:9-17 we see many saints that were saved and died in the tribulation. The saints, which did not die in the first half of the tribulation will be hurt by the antichrist.

Revelation 17:12–18 KJV
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the ***** sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the *****, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

amanhumblinhart · Oct 6, 2012

Eric E Stahl said:
Hi Dave,

The prince that shall come is from the same people as the Romans that destroyed Jerusalem not from Rome.

The last days form of the revived roman empire will be a confederation of 10 nations as pictured in Daniels vision. An 11th horn or nation will arise out of those people in which the antichrist will take power. Daniel 11:39-40 says he will do his will in the most strongholds or strongest nation at the end of time.

I believe that the antichrist will come from America.

to continue the attempt to bring fulfilled prophecy into this time will result in confusion.

Daniel and all the prophets are fulfilled and complete and if many would only hear Jesus they would know this, "the law and prophets WERE until John..."

Everything written in them has been fulfilled already and there is no more for them to do; they have done their work, they have REVEALED the savior, the Christ of god: that was their purpose and why Jesus said, "ye should have known the time of your visitation."

And again Jesus says, "the law and the prophets are those which testify of me, but you will not come to me..."

I could go on and on about Daniel and all the prophets how they are fulfilled but none pause to hear it. I have correctly taught Daniel 9:27 yet all still hang onto that which has been taught in error for far too long. It was Christ who confirmed the covenant with many for one week BUT WAS CUT OFF IN THE MIDST OF IT. Who can deny that Christ taught for 3.5 years and was put to death in the middle of his week??? Who??? Who can deny that it was the fulfillment of the passover lamb when he was cut off? Who can deny that Christs testimony was for one week? And who can deny that he will accomplish the remainder of that week in the two witnesses who shall reveal the seven thunders?

This is truth and no lie.

who is the sun, moon, and stars?

The sun has become black. the moon as blood, and the stars have fallen from heaven.

And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told [it] to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What [is] this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

Seems Jacob understood the sun, moon, and stars of heaven to be themselves, the nation of Israel.

And the end spoken of in Daniel was the end of his people, the nation Israel, otherwise this scripture would be a lie.

I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, Smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake: and cut them in the head, all of them; and I will slay the last of them with the sword: he that fleeth of them shall not flee away, and he that escapeth of them shall not be delivered.

And as a final thrust that you may believe; if Christ is the end of the law and is the testator who died, then ALL of that covenant must be fulfilled! How can you bring in a new covenant made with his people if the old STILL HAS ANY EFFECT?

the abomination which maketh desolate has been placed a LONG time ago because Daniel is a fulfilled book as are all the prophets!

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

Above you have the destruction of Jerusalem and the judgment of those under that covenant so the testament could be brought to an end and the new brought in.

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Above is the fulfillment and proof of the judgment of those under that covenant.

Whitestone · Oct 7, 2012

(Mat 6:34)
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Eric E Stahl · Oct 7, 2012

Whitestone said:
(Mat 6:34)
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the dayisthe evil thereof.

As we near the day of the Lord, we should know and see the signs and be motivated to live diligently for Jesus!

2 Peter 3:10–14 KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

1 Thessalonians 5:1–6 KJV
5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Whitestone · Oct 7, 2012

Eric E Stahl said:
As we near the day of the Lord, we should know and see the signs and be motivated to live diligently for Jesus!

2 Peter 3:10–14 KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

1 Thessalonians 5:1–6 KJV
5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Amen. And you can be assurred, this has been known and experienced and welcomed by all the brethren in Christ from the Time Christ came into His own at Pentecost, down through the years, clear up until now.

These words of the Lord you quoted are applicable to all men throughout all time. Not just at one point on a calendar.

Peace

El Hombre viejo · Oct 8, 2012

Eric E Stahl said:
El Hombre Viejo,

At the end of time when the Jews come home from the Russian north " NOW" God also told Zion to also come home from the "Daughter of Babylon"see Zechariah 2:6-7.

Where is the "Daughter of Babylon"? The Daughter of Babylon is where the Jews are now other then Israel.

6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the Lord: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the Lord.
7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon. —Zechariah 2:6–7 KJV

Zechariah 2:6 tells the Jews to come home from the north. About 1,250,000 Russian Jews have gone home to Israel since 1948. Israel now has a population of between 5,500,000 and 6,000,000 Jewish people. Close to 23% of Israel’s population has come from the Russian north since 1948. My mother paid for several Russian Jews’ passage home to Israel. This Bible passage is written for our time!
How did Zechariah know there would be a large population of Jewish people in the north? God told the prophets the future. Read and think about verse seven.
Notice that a group of Jews are still “living with the daughter of Babylon,” when the Russian Jews are going home. Babylon is the name of the Antichrist’s kingdom in Revelation. This Babylon is the political Babylon referred to in Revelation 16:19, which will be destroyed near the end of the tribulation.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
—Revelation 16:19 KJV

The great city is Jerusalem. Babylon is the little horn that will come out of the ten horns of the Roman Empire from Daniel 7:7–8. Political Babylon is also called a young lion, or a colony of Tarshish, from Ezekiel 38:13. The Antichrist will lead the last-days’ Babylon and defeat the Russian alliance.
Please read Zechariah 2:6–7 again and consider this question: Now that the Russian Jews are going home, where are the Jews who are living with the daughter of Babylon? There is only one large group of Jews remaining outside of Israel. There are about 6,000,000 Jews in America.
That’s right! There are about as many Jews in America as there are in Israel! America is the daughter of Babylon who has inherited the super-power status of the Gentile world.
AMERICA, THE LAST BABYLON ﰀ 37
Now please don’t throw this book away! Continue reading so that you can see the other prophecies in the Bible and get more of your questions answered. How can America, the most Christian nation on earth, be the last-days’ Babylon and future home of the Antichrist? The answer is in the following Bible passages (2 Thessalonians 2:1–12).

I find myself wondering why you name Russia as a daughter of Babylon when in fact Babylon is Iraq. Russia is not a daughter of Iraq. I would hazard to say that the 'daughter of Babylon' is Islam.

You said "Now please don’t throw this book away! Continue reading so that you can see the other prophecies in the Bible and get more of your questions answered. How can America, the most Christian nation on earth, be the last-days’ Babylon and future home of the Antichrist? The answer is in the following Bible passages (2 Thessalonians 2:1–12)."

Now here we agree!! The Antichrist will come from Babylon. He is not American, we know that, but he is definitely a Muslim.

Whitestone · Oct 8, 2012

The only antichrist in scriptures are any person who doesn't confess that Jesus Christ is come in their flesh. And there are many and have been since the jews murdered Christ, of which the jews are the first antichrist and continue to be antichrist along with everyone else who rejects receiving Him into their flesh.
Future speculation is pointless and distracting and a spirit not of God.
There are only 4 places the word occurs and they are in the epistles of John and have no relation to what is being purported in this thread.

(1Jn 4:3)
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Have you received Jesus Christ's Holy Spirit into your flesh?

If not, you are antichrist. Period. They is no other "antichrist".

Quit worrying about the future as though that has any significance for anything. It is only a sign of a false prophet.

(Mat 6:34)
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Peace

El Hombre viejo · Oct 8, 2012

Whitestone said:
The only antichrist in scriptures are any person who doesn't confess that Jesus Christ is come in their flesh. And there are many and have been since the jews murdered Christ, of which the jews are the first antichrist and continue to be antichrist along with everyone else who rejects receiving Him into their flesh.
Future speculation is pointless and distracting and a spirit not of God.
There are only 4 places the word occurs and they are in the epistles of John and have no relation to what is being purported in this thread.

(1Jn 4:3)
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Have you received Jesus Christ's Holy Spirit into your flesh?

If not, you are antichrist. Period. They is no other "antichrist".

Quit worrying about the future as though that has any significance for anything. It is only a sign of a false prophet.

(Mat 6:34)
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the dayisthe evil thereof.

Peace

Well Here's one example; 1 John 2:17-19 Antichrist is used twice here, in two different uses. Check it. Now also look up "Man of sin, and Son of Perdition"

Your search on the subject was interesting but woefully incomplete. Keep going.

El Hombre viejo · Oct 8, 2012

Isn't if funny that being human in this world, when we had sinful natures, being told we may not do something, we just HAD to do it? If there were no traffic laws we could drive through that school zone doing a hundred miles per hour and we would have no fines, nor would the gendarmes pull us over.
If there were no criminal laws murder and robbery etc would not be a crime. We could make our living by violence, and not be wrong.

Where there are no laws, there is no crime...no sin.

With the Old Covenant Law we were suddenly concious of sin. Why? Because there was a law against some things. (Note that all of the things that were against this law were bad for us?) Being of preverse nature we automatically wanted to do these things. But still...wanting to be nice people we wanted to do what was good for ourselves and those around us. We could not however because of the pull to rebel against those laws that hemmed us in. We were slaves to those laws. "Oh poor me!! Who will save me from this horrible quandry?" JESUS will! And HE did too. How?
HE became that sin, was nailed to the cross, (the wages of sin is death) and in doing so HE gave us HIS rigteousness. Now, we were still slaves to the law...until....We accepted the salvation JESUS gave HIS life to purchase for us. Then we died........We were reborn a new creation. But hey! Back up a bit.....When we died our bondage to that law of sin was ended. We became free to become sons of GOD! To serve HIM instead of sin.

Read all about it in Romans 6-8 All three chapters. You NEED all three chapters to see the entire picture of what Paul is saying.

Whitestone · Oct 8, 2012

El Hombre viejo said:
Well Here's one example; 1 John 2:17-19 Antichrist is used twice here, in two different uses. Check it. Now also look up "Man of sin, and Son of Perdition"

Your search on the subject was interesting but woefully incomplete. Keep going.

Wow, what arrogance. What manner of spirit are you?

Is Christ in your flesh? He wouldn't have spoken to me like you did...

El Hombre viejo · Oct 8, 2012

Whitestone said:
Wow, what arrogance. What manner of spirit are you?

Is Christ in your flesh? He wouldn't have spoken to me like you did...

Excuse me? To suggest you keep going on your line of inquiry is arrogance? How so? JESUS spoke quite directly to many people in the Bible. Why would HE have not spoken directly to you? Are you more special than other people? Why do you take offence so easily?

David777 · Oct 8, 2012

Hello Christians.

Babylon?

The woman (bride) ... is that great city.

There is no justification for seeking some other hidden meaning.

"Mystery Babylon" is not the United States.

The United States is a country, not a city.

Furthermore, she is a city built on seven hills.

That specification eliminates ancient Babylon.

Only one city has for more than 2000 years been known as the city on seven hills.

That city is Rome.

El Hombre viejo · Oct 8, 2012

David777 said:
Hello Christians.

Babylon?

The woman (bride) ... is that great city.

There is no justification for seeking some other hidden meaning.

"Mystery Babylon" is not the United States.

The United States is a country, not a city.

Furthermore, she is a city built on seven hills.

That specification eliminates ancient Babylon.

Only one city has for more than 2000 years been known as the city on seven hills.

That city is Rome.

Interesting, because Babylon today sits right where it always sat. 45 miles south of Bagdad Iraq. Who moves it to Rome? And when?

El Hombre viejo · Oct 8, 2012

City of Seven Hills

While I have no praise for the Romanist Religion I wonder why Christians name Rome as being 'Babylon' when there are many cities in the world built on seven hills. Here are sixty of these cities. Why do Christians blame Rome? I can see no reasonable explanation. Can you?

Albany, New York
Amman, Jordan
Armagh, Armagh
Asunción, Paraguay
Athens, Greece
Bamberg, Bavaria, Germany
Barcelona, Catalonia
Bath, England
Bergen, Norway
Brussels, Belgium
Budapest, Hungary
Cagliari, Sardinia
Ceuta, Spain
Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
Cranston, Rhode Island, United States
Dunedin, New Zealand
Fall River, Massachusetts
Edinburgh, Scotland
Gorzów, Poland
Guaranda, Ecuador
Iaşi, Romania
Istanbul, Turkey
Jerusalem, Israel
Kampala, Uganda
Kiev, Ukraine
Lisbon, Portugal
Los Angeles, California, United States
Lynchburg, Virginia, United States
Lviv, Ukraine
Macau
Mecca, Saudi Arabia
Melbourne, Australia
Moscow, Russia
Nevada City, California, United States
Nijmegen, Netherlands
Nixa, Missouri, United States
Plovdiv, Bulgaria
Prague, Czech Republic,
Providence, Rhode Island,
Pula, Croatia
Richmond, Virginia, United States
Rome, Georgia, United States
Rome, Italy
Saint-Étienne, France
Saint Paul, Minnesota, United States
San Diego, California, United States
San Francisco, California, United States
Seattle, Washington, United States
Sheffield, England
Somerville, Massachusetts, United States
Staten Island, New York, United States
Tallahassee, Florida, United States
Tehran, Iran
Telšiai, Lithuania
Thiruvananthapuram, India
Tirumala, India
Torquay, England
Turku, Finland
Worcester, Massachusetts, United States
Yonkers, New York, United States
Zevenbergen, Netherlands

David777 · Oct 8, 2012

Hello El Hombre viejo.

The cities you listed need to fulfill additional
requirements. Here read the following;

Revelations 17

18 The woman whom you saw is the great city,
which reigns over the kings of the earth.

Which city reigned over the kings of the earth?

This should reduce the number of cities in your list.

Revelations 18

4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying,
“Come out of her, my people, so that you will
not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;

5 for her sins have piled up as high as heaven,
and God has remembered her iniquities.

The harlot has God's people as participants in
her sins. Christians are involved with the harlot and are
instructed to depart from the harlot.

Verse five describes the sins of the harlot as many.
You will also notice the past tense "God has remembered
her iniquities." The judgement is for past sins. Throughout
Christian history there has only been one city that has
God's people in attendance and reigned over the kings
of the earth.

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