On The Trinity

[Byfaith]

There is no such a thing as "7" personalities of the Holy Spirit!!

I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions. (Spirit of Knowledge and Wisdom)
(Pro 8:12)

And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; (7)
(Isa 11:2)

Rev_1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Rev_3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev_4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Rev_5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Well, then........... These spirits of Wisdom, Knowledge so forth have nothing to do with the Holy Spirit if that is the case. Got it, thanx.

 

[Curtis]

I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions. (Spirit of Knowledge and Wisdom)
(Pro 8:12)

And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; (7)
(Isa 11:2)

Rev_1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Rev_3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev_4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Rev_5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Well, then........... These spirits of Wisdom, Knowledge so forth have nothing to do with the Holy Spirit if that is the case. Got it, thanx.

These are not "personalities" they attributes of the Spirit of God. Big difference!!!

The "seven" "spirits" which are before the throne could no possible be any thing that has to do with the Holy Spirit as he is God, and sits on God's throne not stand before it!!!!
The seven spirits are seven angels that stand before God's throne!!!!

Rev 8:2 Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.

 

[Shutterbug]

Could you please provide the name of that website?


While it is my opinion that the interpretation of Matthew 28:19 as expressed by the Catholic doctrine of the Trinity is in error regarding the message of the Gospel, which is the basis upon which the doctrine is based. However, it is not an expression of faith but a law which the imposes upon those follow the Catholic teaching are required to follow. In addition, it decrees that those who do not accept their doctrine are accursed of God and heretics of Faith. Since I hold to the faith of individual liberty as expressed in the First Amendment of the United States Constitution in all matters expressed therein, including religion, thus I would submit that the question of who is accursed of God and heretics of Faith isn't subject to the judgment of the man but his Creator.

Since the basis of the Catholic doctrine is based upon Matthew 28:18 wherein it is written in the King James version;

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, [link to the Vatican website] it states the following:

232 Christians are baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" *
Before receiving the sacrament, they respond to a three-part question when asked to
confess the Father, the Son and the Spirit: "I do." "The faith of all Christians rests on the Trinity." **
* 53 Mt 28:19.
** 54 St. Caesarius of Arles, Sermo 9, Exp. symb.:CCL 103,47.​

I have asked in the name of the LORD if anyone can state the names of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, however my faith rests in my Creator
and in such the silence to my question is sufficient. 1 Peter 3:15. Thus in Matthew 28:19, it continues as written;

"Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen"

254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary." *
"Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being,
for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son
he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son." **
They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates,
the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."***
* Fides Damasi: DS 71.
** Council of Toledo XI (675): DS 530:25.
*** Lateran Council IV (1215): DS 804.
​

So who is the father of man who is called Jesus Christ. According to the scriptures in Mt. 1:18, Mt 1:20, it was the Holy Ghost, but it seems that I have conclude for now, but I did provide a link above in case you have not actually read the doctrine itself.

Good evening WaterRock;

Let me begin my saying thank you for the referenced materiél. I'm not that familiar with Roman Catholic teachings. I appreciate that the RCC has dug itself into a pretty deep hole regarding several topics, but I do not believe this is indicative of its membership (I can't think of the actual word) as a whole.

Regarding the requested links, I will provide them. For the record (I'm not bragging or slaying him) this individual has twice cursed me in the name of Jesus Christ IAW his interpretation of Gal 1:8/1/9. I will state for the record that contacting this person is not wise. While he complains about people banning him, he has no problem whatsoever with banning people who disagree with him. He calls it "protecting his flock". Please, for yourself and anyone else, do not contact this man if your intent is to win him over.

Home website: Jesus Name Apostolic Holiness Church - Oneness Pentecostal . This site has undergone several changes through the years, but its message remains consistent.
Forum #1: www.TheTruthOfTheBible.com - Index
Forum #2: Apostolic Pentecostal Acts 2:38 Jesus Name Christians

I'm not posting the above links for purposes of vengeance or retribution. Read into them whatever you wish.

Cheers, John

 

[Shutterbug]

Wow, just thank you for posting. "Justification for Polytheism?" Not even sure what the means but it's like saying I am Homosexual, but it's Not my fault I was born that way.
Was watching a thing where people say they don't believe in god, but get upset if you label them atheist. Being labeled a atheist makes people look down on you.

So I guess being labeled a Polytheist might be just as heart breaking also.

52 Scripture A Father and Son are mentioned together, but if someone counts two, then they best say those two mysteriously by some magical force get mashed into 1, or else they are Polytheist, not someone that can just count to 2.

It's OK, not to be able to count to 2, Who needs to count to 2 to be a Pastor of a church, who cares if your Pastor can count, right? He might have 30 people there, 2,000 there, he does not need to figure that out. Not important. God forbid if He is a Polytheist and thinks there is a Actual Father and Son both God. That is Hersey.

Thank you Shutterbug. Makes me think, that is for sure. Be blessed.

I love that you're thinking, but I'd rather you be able to claim what Polycarp did at his hearing: I have served God for 80+ (I forget the exact number) and He has never failed me. Unfortunately, it didn't end well for him. However, the crowd was made to think about the outcome. Cheers, John

 

[Shutterbug]

Could you please provide the name of that website?


While it is my opinion that the interpretation of Matthew 28:19 as expressed by the Catholic doctrine of the Trinity is in error regarding the message of the Gospel, which is the basis upon which the doctrine is based. However, it is not an expression of faith but a law which the imposes upon those follow the Catholic teaching are required to follow. In addition, it decrees that those who do not accept their doctrine are accursed of God and heretics of Faith. Since I hold to the faith of individual liberty as expressed in the First Amendment of the United States Constitution in all matters expressed therein, including religion, thus I would submit that the question of who is accursed of God and heretics of Faith isn't subject to the judgment of the man but his Creator.

I take the First Amendment with a grain of salt as I do the Charter of Rights and Freedoms regarding religious beliefs here in Canada. Government does not like competition. Similarly, Christians in the USA feel they have rights within the First Amendment while others do not. It becomes an hypocrisy, not a democracy. Cheers, John

 

[Byfaith]

These are not "personalities" they attributes of the Spirit of God. Big difference!!!

The "seven" "spirits" which are before the throne could no possible be any thing that has to do with the Holy Spirit as he is God, and sits on God's throne not stand before it!!!!
The seven spirits are seven angels that stand before God's throne!!!!

Rev 8:2 Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.

Rev_1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Rev_4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

We can't use a Modern Roman Catholic Doctrine by which they said is not found in scripture to prove anything Curtis. The folks that made the doctrine don't even buy into it. It's a mystery of Christian faith. (New Catholic encyclopedia 1967) (Roman Catholic encyclopedia 1912) I know you can set your standards a lot higher than that.

However, I am able to look past that to see what you have said.

The KJV capitalizes Spirits, denoting the Holy Spirit. That don't make it so, just their understanding.

The seven spirits are seven angels that stand before God's throne!!!!

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
(Joh 15:26)

The Holy Spirit comes from the Father, so it's very possible for Him to be standing by the Throne. Now are these 7 burning lamps the Holy Spirit or Part of the Holy Spirit? It does not exactly say they came from the throne with the thundering and lightning. Jesus talked about 7 more wicked spirits coming back, the Virgins had 7 lamps with oil which some say is the anointing or Holy Spirit. That don't make it so either.

Do you have any translation that says 7 spirits are 7 angels?

 

[Curtis]

Rev_1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Rev_4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

The Word of God describes "angels" as "spirits", and this word is interchanged a lot in scripture. They are not parts of the Spirit of God as God only sits on his throne, not stand stand before it.
The seven spirits are seven angels.

Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Rev 8:2 Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.

 

[Byfaith]

Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Rev 8:2 Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.

this is what I was looking for. Thank you.

Flame and fire would certainly describe the burning lamps, or could explain.

I'll have to give this one to you. Never really looked at this close, just took other peoples end time commentary about the role of the Holy Spirit as fact and did not examine it.

Another thing missing is the Seven Spirits being the Holy Spirit. It does not say that either so we just don't add that because we want to think that.

Awesome Job here, that is what I like, scripture, not some confused Catholic doctrine. I'll say attributes as you do now, I can't prove either way without making vague connections, and that is not good enough when understanding scriptures.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,
@Byfaith

Got it, thanx.

Got it, thanx.

It appears that your manners have not got it, so I ask that you consider changing your attitude towards others in your posts throughout TalkJesus.

Get it?

While you might or might not either know or think you know more or less than your peers and all others here at TalkJesus, all members, including you are asked to keep your attitude of pompous conceit to yourself when logging on and posting.

You discredit anything that you say and discredit the whole forum by being reckless with words.
I am writing to you here, publicly, as you seem to see fit to rubbish the public here.

I suggest you take a day or two off and think about how you speak to others.

Get it?

Bless you ....><>

 

[Byfaith]

While you might or might not either know or think you know more or less than your peers and all others here at TalkJesus, all members, including you are asked to keep your attitude of pompous conceit to yourself when logging on and posting.

I agree with that, it's always good to look back and examine Character, how we treated others, what promises we might have broken. How do we handle others? Are we kind, Longsuffering? could we have been stronger in Love and faith for someone instead of just writing them off.

yes, instead of thinking some are lesser in knowledge, perhaps I need to adjust an understanding and not write in a way that makes me superior. I am not use to people questioning, but then again I wanted to get other views. I'll make the adjustments.

 

[Waggles]

When I was born again or born anew by water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism with the Bible evidence of speaking forth in a new tongue [as Jesus said one would]
I was able to experience the Trinity of God - my Father, my Redeemer and the Holy Spirit - through revelation and understanding given by the indwelling
Holy Spirit who teaches me so very much about the nature and work of Jesus [and gives me access to my Father in heaven by the Spirit].
Dispense with academic theology and word games and do yourself a favour - get born again by water and the Spirit exactly as Jesus commands all of us to do.
Then and only then will you actually experience the Trinity of God through the Holy Spirit indwelling yet also having Jesus and your Father as well.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
abode = residence...

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory

amazing truth in those few words from Colossians.

@WaterRock
forgive me for not getting back sooner. We were discussing ionised light and the like.
Quietness is something we can overlook in all the motion and related activity yet it has in itself an essence of life so often forfeited.
Yahoshua Messiah said there are two, the second being like unto the first.
Loving only those we deem lovable because they please us misses the mark and if a man say he loves God yet hates his brother
love your enemies for while we were yet sinners even hateful and enemies towards God Christ died and not only died but died for us, such is the first He spoke of.
Now, yes even now if we harden not our hearts, if we have love one for another we might draw close to that light with confidence.

If we say we love God. We can not love God if we do not love each other with the love demonstrated by and through Him and we can not obtain without first entering in, through the Door

It is the agape that has no form that we can see and yet it is alive, much as scientists now observe a life in light a stillness in the wind or breath of life and it is given as an endless realm of what we call holiness and glory and that agape is alive and living now the which we attempt to explain through words of trinity and our grasping at the wind as if to hold it and keep unto ourselves, so childishly like babes trying to hold running water from a tap or stream in fingers of fascination and so often we miss the moment and wonder why.

Is there a difference between the Holy Ghost and the Spirit of God?

Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

continuing from last post,
love God means also love one another, the two are one
Have we seen love?
Can we see love on its own?
We can see love manifested. Interesting word to look at.
It appears to have man in it. GOD LOVE has been invested in man.

One love given, manifested in man, the Son of man, Who did not leave us comfortless.
Why love enemies? For God so loved the world.
Can we see doing unto others as He has and in seeing why would we want to place it in a cage like a bird that can no longer benefit or express itself with and in at by the power of the wind?

Bless you ....><>

 

[WaterRock]

if a man say he loves God yet hates his brother.

Some might say that man is a liar, yet they would be those who are not perfect before the LORD. For if they know not how to be perfect with the LORD, then neither would they know perfect hate either.
Hopefully I didn't miss the point of the comment did I ? So how would you reconcile Luke 14:26

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Some might say that man is a liar, yet they would be those who are not perfect before the LORD. For if they know not how to be perfect with the LORD, then neither would they know perfect hate either.
Hopefully I didn't miss the point of the comment did I ? So how would you reconcile Luke 14:26

The idea of the man being alone was not good.
The help was only meant to be temporary until the man wakes up.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,
understanding love will illustrate what is meant in Luke 14:26.
To love your neighbor as you love yourself means more than trying to be nice. Again, how or what does it mean to love yourself?
Most men do love themselves and by this it does not mean they think they are so good and amazing! It means that they tend to their every need and usually have things sorted so meticulously as to be just the way they like it, be it their routine, the food they eat, the clothes they wear, all things that they are comfortable with and acceptable to their tastes and needs
AND then, going deeper still, we must confess that when we're hungry we do what we can to eat, when tired we make sure to get some rest, when cold we do what we can to alleviate the cold, and most readily clothe themselves when naked. When sore or wounded some sort of remedial action is taken and who doesn't mind pampering themselves with a nice warm shower or bath and a comfortable bed to sleep in? All acts of love, caring love.
Most men also care for at least some of their kin and some even care for others.
The message in that text is that a man who is not willing to 'not-love', a man who says he cannot follow Jesus because he has too many personal cares, a man who basically loves those family members only because he is doing what's right for himself, by satisfying his sense of duty and care that he can sleep at night, such a one will hesitate and judge accordingly before most things and by doing so will always put the LORD second to himself.
~~~~~~~~~
I can not tell how much you understood my previous post but you might have missed what was said.

If I may add to it,
there is a bond of peace. What does it look like and can it be seen at all or be measured scientifically?
When one is raised from the dead, apart from the breath and pulse and bodily functions can the action of resurrection life be taken hold of by any means?

And what of hope?

Bless you ....><>

 

[king1]

Not really, they would be four. The three form the one which has to be the fourth. Because if you see the three, you don't see the fourth. And by seeing the fourth you know the three are not one.

May the Peace of the Lord be with you forever and ever. Amen.

One is one. In this world and the world to come. One water molecule contains two hydrogen particles and one oxygen particle. The hydrogen particle is not a water molecule nor is the oxygen particle, . These three particles do not occupy the same space at the same time,