On The Trinity

[Byfaith]

I was raised a Roman Catholic when I was growing up, even learned to speak some "Latin" as a alter boy, but later got saved in a "Assemblies" of God Church. I only went to the Assemblies of God Church one time, and I have stayed away from the Catholic Church ever sense then.

Wife and I went to a AOG church for several years. So your view of Trinity is the AOG version based on the Anthasian creed from Rome which the AOG set fourth in their own statement of faith in 1916 to battle the infused Oneness view by which 160 ministers were kicked out of the AOG and later a major split in 1928. Is that Correct then?

I like the AOG Church, I don't like their moving away from Absolutes in God's will to heal which they set fourth when formed. A lot has changed with them through the years.

Blessings.

 

[RJ]

The Trinity doctrine also states that you must believe this creed of the Roman Catholic church or you are unsaved. That is also part of the 3 in 1 doctrine.

I have been believing in the possibility of the Trinity for some time now, and this is the first time I have heard the belief in the Trinity is a prerequisite for salvation. I certainly don't believe in that and it seems ridiculous to me.

 

[WaterRock]

Yes but can we see the force and energy binding and loosing?
What is the attraction?

No more than we can see the wind which travels
upon the lines of that stretch too and fro the heaven.

No so much an attraction but rather a calling.

 

[Byfaith]

I have been believing in the possibility of the Trinity for some time now, and this is the first time I have heard the belief in the Trinity is a prerequisite for salvation. I certainly don't believe in that and it seems ridiculous to me.

Well, If you don't believe that believing in Trinity is not part of what it gets takes to be born again "Saved" then you believe in something else that is not the Trinity Doctrine. Your just calling it trinity when it's not Trinity.

This is the Actual wording of the Modern Trinity Doctrine accepted by Western Civilization.

Athanasian Creed: 16th Century.
" But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation;"

So, if you claim to believe in the Trinity, then you have to believe it's a prerequisite to be saved because it's in the Doctrine itself.

If you want to believe the Original NIcene Creed of 325ad, then there are no 3 in 1, but Jesus is of the same substance as the Father, both Just As God as each other, but 2 God's of the same essence.

Original Trinity Doctrine 325ad Nicene Creed.
:But those who say that: "There was a time when He was not;" and "He was not before He was made;" and "He was made out of nothing," or "He is of another substance" or "essence," or "The Son of God is created," or "changeable," or "alterable" - they are condemned by the Holy Orthodox and Universal Apostolic Church."

The Original says you must believe Jesus is not created, not made, is of the Same God "Essence" As the Father, God of God, like the Father then you believe in Line with Scriptures and you can still be saved if you don't believe that, but you will still be condemned by the Holy Orthodox Universal Apostolic Church....... (Which is Rome again)

If you don't believe either of these, then it's not even trinity but something new altogether or a mix of something that is not Trinity. In that case we need a new thread to discuss the new belief. It's in bad taste to take someones work, twist it around and claim it's the same when it's not. many churches have done just this with Rome's original work and it's not integrity, it's just wrong. I don't like when someone twist something I said, and certainly don't want to sow that type of seed with someone else work.

Blessings.

 

[RJ]

Well, If you don't believe that believing in Trinity is not part of what it gets takes to be born again "Saved" then you believe in something else that is not the Trinity Doctrine. Your just calling it trinity when it's not Trinity.

Not sure what you are thinking, but "Born Again" is as Jesus told Nicodemus, to be born your second birth, your spiritual birth. because of your belief that Jesus died for your sins and was raised on the third day, God deposits the Holy Spirit inside you. That happens whether you believe that all three individuals make of the Godhead or not.

 

[Byfaith]

Not sure what you are thinking, but "Born Again" is as Jesus told Nicodemus, to be born your second birth, your spiritual birth. because of your belief that Jesus died for your sins and was raised on the third day, God deposits the Holy Spirit inside you. That happens whether you believe that all three individuals make of the Godhead or not.

what? I was not thinking anything. I posted the Trinity Doctrine for you that says you must believe in the Trinity to be saved. Unless you want the Original. I could care less what the Trinity Doctrine says, but if you believe in Trinity, then you have to believe that to be saved, you must believe in the 3 in 1 or else it's not Trinity, but someone else's copy cat doctrine.

As for me, I am not a fan of the Trinity, oneness, Modalist doctrines. I believe Jesus is fully God, and the Father is fully God, and I count 2 of them, not 1. As the Original Trinity Doctrines says, which I am not really a fan of that as it also came from Rome.

 

[RJ]

I posted the Trinity Doctrine for you that says you must believe in the Trinity to be saved.

Please don't falsely put words in my mouth, I never said such a thing, in fact, I just said the opposite. I am done with you and false accusations...God Bless

 

[Byfaith]

Please don't falsely put words in my mouth, I never said such a thing, in fact, I just said the opposite. I am done with you and false accusations...God Bless

I did what? I just posted the Trinity Doctrine You claimed to believe to have some truth to it. I never put any words in your mouth. Get a gripe. It will be OK. I don't think your but half understanding what I am posting here, but I agree, time to take a break from this Trinity discussion.

 

[RJ]

I did what? I just posted the Trinity Doctrine You claimed to believe to have some truth to it. I never put any words in your mouth. Get a gripe. It will be OK. I don't think your but half understanding what I am posting here, but I agree, time to take a break from this Trinity discussion.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

To everyone trying to argue with these people to prove the trinity, RJ has already provided sufficient proof of the trinity.

With all due respect again:

• In the beginning was the word.....Jesus
• And the word was with God......Two, Jesus and God
• And the word was God........Jesus was God; God was Jesus
• Genesis 1:2.....Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters......In the beginning the Holy Spirit existed and was with God and Jesus,
• Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image,...our means multiple...God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit
• Genesis 2:7...Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being....In the beginning was the breath of life which is the Holy Spirit who was with God and Jesus.
• In the beginning was three: God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit!

At this point, we should all just pray for 'WaterRock' and those who are arguing against the trinity. It is obvious that they need much, much prayer, especially 'WaterRock', with his/her strange ideas.

 

[Byfaith]

To everyone trying to argue with these people to prove the trinity, RJ has already provided sufficient proof of the trinity.

At this point, we should all just pray for 'WaterRock' and those who are arguing against the trinity. It is obvious that they need much, much prayer, especially 'WaterRock', with his/her strange ideas.

ya, but that passage in John chapter 1 is not a proof of trinity, trinity never used that passage ever. That is Oneness Pentecostal scripture for proof of 1 is 3. Oneness believes Jesus is some word part of a god system, Modalist will say Jesus is the Word of God mixing Trinity with Oneness. Trinity never made that claim in the original or Athanasian Creed.

Just saying.

I think we all would do better to just study for ourselves where the Trinity Doctrine came from (Rome) what Rome said about it and what other doctrines branched off from Trinity that are not Trinity. Pray for WaterRock also, I don't understand some of his post either.

 

[Curtis]

Wife and I went to a AOG church for several years. So your view of Trinity is the AOG version based on the Anthasian creed from Rome which the AOG set fourth in their own statement of faith in 1916 to battle the infused Oneness view by which 160 ministers were kicked out of the AOG and later a major split in 1928. Is that Correct then?

I like the AOG Church, I don't like their moving away from Absolutes in God's will to heal which they set fourth when formed. A lot has changed with them through the years.

Blessings.

Remember, I only went to the "Assemblies" of God Church "one" time = one day. I only got saved their, and I did not hang around to be indoctrinated by their belief system.

 

[WaterRock]

Pray for WaterRock also, I don't understand some of his post either.

Actually you can say your prayer for yourself. Do you mean the question about the male and female being named Adam? Maybe the one about wisdom and understanding, while the one asked can't seem to grasp the concept, I would suggest Matt 15:18 lest hurl some more insults, but what the hell its Saturday Night.

So then would you care to explain your interpretation regarding these three Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost being one?

I found it extremely ironic that the passage found in 1 John 5:7 isn't the basis of the Trinity doctrine but rather it isn't referenced in any of the Trinity doctrines

 

[Byfaith]

Remember, I only went to the "Assemblies" of God Church "one" time = one day. I only got saved their, and I did not hang around to be indoctrinated by their belief system.

Ah, one time, I see. All the years I been there, I never heard the Trinity taught. Not like the Apostolic church I went to help the Pastor at. They teach and take that Oneness doctrine very serious.

Now at the AOG, I mostly heard a mix of trinity and Oneness terminology from members. The Church I attend now for the past 8 years, I will at times hear something like Jesus, the 2nd person in the Godhead. Just the other day we played a song by Chris Tomlin who has 3 in 1 Father, Holy Spirit and son who mixed the order around to get it to rhyme. My Pastor never has mentioned Trinity, but at times mentions that Jesus can't be the Same as the Father, so I suspect the Oneness Doctrine bothers him, but He has never expounded on those statements.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[WaterRock]

So then would you care to explain your interpretation regarding these three Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost being one?

Where are my manners, I do apologize since I obviously should state mine first before I would even consider asking yours.

As the man and his wife shall be become one ,I hear tale that the male and female that are not married are called 'man'. And the male and female that are married are called 'Woman.'

Thus in 1 John 5:7, it is not two men, but , Phasma and Logos are called the 'Man'.

And the Holy Ghost is LORD.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Ok, lets take a second look at what scripture says...

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God."

^ so here we have two distinct persons within the one God (the word who was with God, and who is God; and also God, who was with the word, and who is God)

And who is this word?

"And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’”

^ so here we see that the word who was with God, and who is God, is the only begotten son of God, who John testified of. clearly, the word who is God and who was with God, the same one is Jesus, the only begotten son of God that John testified about.

So now we know that in the one God, there are two, both the word (who is Jesus), and God.

now, why should we consider that there may be another person of the God head? well, Jesus Himself elevated The Holy Spirit to that of God, when He commanded us to baptize in the name of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. but other than that, what proof do we have from the bible that the Spirit of God is indeed God, in the same way that the son of God is God? well, we see in Acts chapter 5, verses 3 and 4 that Peter says that lying to The Holy Spirit is lying to God.

"But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”


So we have The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. When God made man, He said "Let us make mankind in our image". The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

and just in case we needed further evidence that Jesus is God, here is some more

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." -Jesus Christ (Revelation 22:13)

 

[Byfaith]

and just in case we needed further evidence that Jesus is God, here is some more

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." -Jesus Christ (Revelation 22:13)

The Father called Jesus God in Heb, John Called Jesus the One true God, Thomas called Jesus God, and Jesus did not correct that, No did Jesus correct the Pharisee's when they accused him to make himself out as God, but said to them, Ye are gods also.

So the question of the Trinity is not about Jesus being God, the question is about the part Rome said was not in scripture but a mystery. That is the part in question.

Thank you for sharing here Taylor, Blessings to you.

 

[WaterRock]

Good , just as long as ya'll understand

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings WaterRock,
haven't found it yet but , "phasma" I'm not sure where that fits in? Happy to hear if you care to share, thanks.

When we refer to mankind I am fairly sure that most include the females as part of man. I'm fairly certain that most consider 'Adam' to mean 'man' though I think it means ruddy referring to blood.

Did anyone work out what or who etc Adam would understand or think or know was his flesh?

Bless you ....><>