Pentecostal Christians worldwide under the baptize of the Holy Spirit

[Bill]

In order for osas to be true, man can in no way lose his faith, right?

It is faith in the finished work of Christ that saves us, and keeps us saved.

This came from Calvinism, Calvin said God chooses who will be saved and man has nothing to say about it.

So, if man has no free will to choose Christ, he has no free will to turn from Christ.

The result is osas.

If man has no choice to believe, as Calvin said, then he has no responsibility to guard the faith given him.

This is the bottom line of osas.

Ok ya, i see what you are saying.

Osas, along with Predestination and that new teaching that one of my favorite preachers has fallen to, Zacheria ( i think ) the guy from India that had some great surmons. He is now lost in that new teaching " Done ". If you have not read the origional book by the author, he contradicted himself 3 x in the first 1/2 of the book.

 

[Bill]

Everything is an argument with us, Curtis. Let's call if a day, ok.

The Lord showed me a vision once, of all the churches. Oldest to youngest. Everyone was arguing the God was thier God and no one elses. Then God said to me, "there are many many people in all the churches who love me, and I love all of them"

 

[Bill]

There is such a thing called "fake faith" and there is "genuine faith" Fake faith can not decern Christ being in that person. Genuine has no problems knowing that Jesus Christ is in them and knowing that Jesus is their life!

But can you discern who has what, and even if you could, are you to judge them? Or just try to point out differences

 

[Bill]

Anybody can have "works" without having faith. Happens every day.

Do you know what the bible is speaking of when it is refering to "Works"?

 

[Curtis]

Everything is an argument with us, Curtis. Let's call if a day, ok.

I don't call it an argument. I would call it a discussion.

 

[Curtis]

I just thought you might like to see the passage for yourself, how the spripture states the names of all the apostles. And what is really interesting, Judas full name is used. He was the only one whose full name was used

We don't know exactly what Judas would have done in works-related things because scripture does not tell us, but we do know he never believed in Jesus and Jesus himself called him a devil. That is all one needs to know,

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
John 6:71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

 

[Curtis]

Do you know what the bible is speaking of when it is refering to "Works"?

If you had works that come from faith, that means you are experiencing in your life the promises from which faith comes a reality in your life.
If you are NOT experiencing the fulfillment of the promises of God from which faith comes then you do not have genuine faith.

Real faith only produces real results.

Faith without works is dead.

 

[Bill]

If you had works that come from faith, that means you are experiencing in your life the promises from which faith comes a reality in your life.
If you are NOT experiencing the fulfillment of the promises of God from which faith comes then you do not have genuine faith.

Real faith only produces real results.

Faith without works is dead.

What "Works" is, is Jesus working through you. When you do something out of love for others that is greater than your love of self.

Jesus tells us to be like Him. Jesus was selfless. Someone who jumps on a hand grenade is selfless, thinking of the others around him to save them. This is an extreme example, but it's still giving your life. And Jesus talks about those who give their lives for the sake of others, how they are so blessed.

 

[First and the Last]

James argues that genuine faith in God naturally produces good works. He is not suggesting that works are a means to earn salvation but rather that true faith will inevitably manifest itself in actions. The concept is that faith, if it is real and alive, will result in a transformed life characterized by deeds of love, compassion, and obedience to God's commands. Without such evidence, faith is considered "dead" or ineffective, implying that it is not true faith at all.

To illustrate this point, James provides practical examples in the surrounding verses, such as helping a brother or sister in need (James 2:15-16). He stresses that claiming to have faith without demonstrating it through actions is like having a body without the spirit—it is lifeless. This teaching complements other parts of the New Testament, such as Paul's assertion in Ephesians 2:8-10, where salvation is described as a gift from God received through faith, which then leads to good works prepared by God for believers to do. James 2:17 reinforces the idea that authentic faith and works are two sides of the same coin, each confirming the other.

 

[Bill]

James argues that genuine faith in God naturally produces good works. He is not suggesting that works are a means to earn salvation but rather that true faith will inevitably manifest itself in actions. The concept is that faith, if it is real and alive, will result in a transformed life characterized by deeds of love, compassion, and obedience to God's commands. Without such evidence, faith is considered "dead" or ineffective, implying that it is not true faith at all.

To illustrate this point, James provides practical examples in the surrounding verses, such as helping a brother or sister in need (James 2:15-16). He stresses that claiming to have faith without demonstrating it through actions is like having a body without the spirit—it is lifeless. This teaching complements other parts of the New Testament, such as Paul's assertion in Ephesians 2:8-10, where salvation is described as a gift from God received through faith, which then leads to good works prepared by God for believers to do. James 2:17 reinforces the idea that authentic faith and works are two sides of the same coin, each confirming the other.

Exactly