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Pre-trib Rapture: A popular but false doctrine

Should I assume u don't believe

And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

And.

Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him.


Is this moot to u too??

Twistie :broken_heart:
What makes you think those two incidents can be replicated to the church? Jesus compared the great tribulation to the days of Lot and Noah, and again, neither Lot nor Noah was "taken" into heaven.
 
What makes you think those two incidents can be replicated to the church? Jesus compared the great tribulation to the days of Lot and Noah, and again, neither Lot nor Noah was "taken" into heaven.
What makes u think it ain't gonna happen lol He tells His children it is well my Father does...

His ways are not mans ways but part of the Word is moot to u.. perhaps u need to ponder with YH urself n let Him tell you.. He does speak to His children ya know?..

Twistie :broken_heart:
 
What makes u think it ain't gonna happen lol He tells His children it is well my Father does...

His ways are not mans ways but part of the Word is moot to u.. perhaps u need to ponder with YH urself n let Him tell you.. He does speak to His children ya know?..

Twistie :broken_heart:
I did ponder with YH, and he exposed this lie to me and what his Word really said - in the Scripture.

Ok gotcha ur god has limits mine is limitless

Those who r taken will not b the first to b taken without tasting death as the world knows it


Twistie :broken_heart:
OK tell me, is your salvation through the blood of Jesus - or this "rapture" based on a misinterpretation of a single verse?
 
The issue I have with a pre-trib theory is it is not stated in the bible anywhere, and the bible says Jesus only comes back one more time, not two more times.

Now when I was taught the pre-trib theory they would say Jesus coming in the clouds does not count as his second coming he has to touch the ground for that to count. I personally have an issue with it and would not believe it. Since when does being in the earth's atmosphere not count as being on earth??

The Bible clearly says Jesus' return is after the tribulation, anyone stating anything different is speculating at best, with no scripture to back it up. There is NO scripture that says Jesus returns prior to the tribulation to remove the church NON at all. Yes, people take verses out of context and read into them and base their opinion on that. For example, many claims that the blessed hope is the rapture of the church, yet my blessed hope is Jesus whenever he comes.
Actually, I do believe that God's chosen people will either all be six feet under or supernaturally protected during the three and a half year tribulation - like the Israelites in the land of Goshen during the ten plagues in Egypt, that would be perfectly in line with the description in 1 Thess. 4:16-17 that most will rise FROM THE DEAD while others will still be alive when the Lord returns. However, most preachings of this pre-trib rapture never specify this aspect, if you ask them what "rapture" means, they just give you the runaround with a dictionary definition of "upcatching", which leaves a false impression of alien abduction or anti-gravity ascendence; also, they completely ignore the resurrection part of it, I've never heard any preacher said that we'll rise up to meet the Lord, it's all about this sudden disappearance, and they wonder why we're still here.
 
Ok gotcha ur god has limits mine is limitless

Those who r taken will not b the first to b taken without tasting death as the world knows it


Twistie :broken_heart:
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. 1 Thes 4

oops posted to wrong person
 
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. 1 Thes 4
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Show me any evidence that guarantees we'll be among "those who are alive" and not "the dead in Christ".
 
John Darby simply found the passages that were in scripture. And the two passages you mentioned are both describing the rapture witch is the up-gathering of the Church / the mass resurrection of first the dead saints and then all born-again believers. And that happens in a split second of time.

And then you're referring to later when Jesus Christ does come back to this earth to rule for the next 1,000 yrs.

And I'm not a 'brother' in Christ but a 'sister' in Christ. And that depends on whether you're a born-again believer.

The church or the wife of Christ began with Abel the first apostles, martyr sent with the gospel. The idea of a early church led by apostles is a false oral tradition of faithless mankind in a false hope of that we walk by sight after the temporal things seen as if God was a man as us.

John Darby with help of a lady friend Margret Macdonald who claimed to see visions excused himself from looking into the the "signified" understanding found in parables which without Christ spoke not . . .

"Parables" His personal poetic tongue . Like the book of song of songs God singing prophecy through parables.

Revelation1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Not just sent as a literal understanding .

Rather that rightly dividing prophecy. Mr Darby added a literal understandings to support those who seek after signs before they believe.

No sign was given other than the "last day" a unknown. We walk by faith and do not seek after signs (pagainism)

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An
evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

The first century reformation began the last days the beginning of the great tribulation when the moon turned blood red the veil was rent the graves of the old testament saints opened and they entered in the new heavenly Jerusalem, not seen with human eye. The first part of the rising (rapture) to new incorruptible bodies that will not age leading to a end

God had turned over the faithless atheist Jews to do whatsoever their own mouth said as oral traditions until the time of reformation Satan could no longer deceive all the nations of the world that God was a Jewish King of kings, as Lord of lord .

It clearly does mean the accuser of the brethren stooped accusing Christians He will be deceiving mankind in that (God is a Jewish man) way until the last day under the sun .The end of temporal time.

The parable reads. . .

Revelation20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years (unknown) should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The preparation of a new temple build with human hands will occur for a short time at the end of the corrupted age .
 
Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. (NLT)

What is the method of "escape" Jesus was referring to that will come upon all who dwell on the earth unawares?
 
Is salvation in the blood or in the rapture? If it's in the rapture, then may YH rebuke me; but if it's in the blood, then may YH rebuke you.
If I may interject a thought. Salvation is through the blood of Jesus Christ. The rapture is Jesus christ coming to meet all born-again believers and rescuing us from this mess of the world. It is Not anyone's praying to God to rescue us from this mess. It's not escapism.
 
why do you think the tribulation is All Gods wrath?? when is Gods wrath mentioned in the book of revelation??
Rev 6:16 And they cried to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the one who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb.
Rev 6:17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to survive?”
 
Not anyone's praying to God to rescue us from this mess.
luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass,
 
The church or the wife of Christ began with Abel the first apostles, martyr sent with the gospel. The idea of a early church led by apostles is a false oral tradition of faithless mankind in a false hope of that we walk by sight after the temporal things seen as if God was a man as us.

John Darby with help of a lady friend Margret Macdonald who claimed to see visions excused himself from looking into the the "signified" understanding found in parables which without Christ spoke not . . .

"Parables" His personal poetic tongue . Like the book of song of songs God singing prophecy through parables.

Revelation1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Not just sent as a literal understanding .

Rather that rightly dividing prophecy. Mr Darby added a literal understandings to support those who seek after signs before they believe.

No sign was given other than the "last day" a unknown. We walk by faith and do not seek after signs (pagainism)

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

The first century reformation began the last days the beginning of the great tribulation when the moon turned blood red the veil was rent the graves of the old testament saints opened and they entered in the new heavenly Jerusalem, not seen with human eye. The first part of the rising (rapture) to new incorruptible bodies that will not age leading to a end

God had turned over the faithless atheist Jews to do whatsoever their own mouth said as oral traditions until the time of reformation Satan could no longer deceive all the nations of the world that God was a Jewish King of kings, as Lord of lord .

It clearly does mean the accuser of the brethren stooped accusing Christians He will be deceiving mankind in that (God is a Jewish man) way until the last day under the sun .The end of temporal time.

The parable reads. . .

Revelation20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years (unknown) should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The preparation of a new temple build with human hands will occur for a short time at the end of the corrupted age .
Then according to you the 7 yr tribulation has already come and gone. And John Darby simply shared scripture that was already there. And Where do you get your information from. And Abel being an apostle?! And the Church is the Bride of Christ not His wife.
 
Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. (NLT)

What is the method of "escape" Jesus was referring to that will come upon all who dwell on the earth unawares?
Isn't the passage referring to being counted worthy to be martyred for standing for Jesus Christ.
 
Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

If Jesus is coming and all eyes are going to see him that can not be the "rapture" for he will come "unawares" at the catching away of his saints, and only those who are leaving will see him.
 
In otherwards it's not talking about escapism.
Jesus is the one who used the word "escape" not me. Escapism has to do with being distracted and not paying attention to what is happening spiritually.

Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

How can someone escape when they are unaware of what is happening, which is why Jesus said to watch and pray? Watching has to do with observing something over a period of time so you will be ready to escape.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. (KJV)
 
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