Admon Mikha'el
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Ok Now that we have that cleared up....I expect God did tell him what to offer. Cain too but Cain decided that he had a better idea.
Pre-trib Rapture: A popular but false doctrine
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PloughBoy
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Abel preach The Gospel according to who and who too? and a blood atonement sacrifice for who? Just asking? Who? there was no "LAW" where there is no Law there is no transgression.
NASB 1977 Romans 4:15
for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, neither is there violation.
New King James Version
because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there isno transgression.
New American Standard Bible Romans 5:13
for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not counted against anyone when there is no law.
New International Version
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
Curtis said:
Abel was one of the first persons to preach the Gospel. Even though he is "dead yet he still speaks today"
Abel by faith (which only comes from God) knew that it could only take a "blood atonement sacrifice" to redeem man back to God which is why God witness that he was righteous
PloughBoy. asking a couple of Questions
Curtis
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Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Even though there was no law to break at that time, nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses. Death reigned because of what? Sin.
Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin.
Who revealed the very first sign that a blood sacrifice was going to be needed?
Gen 3:21 And the LORD God made clothing from animal skins for Adam and his wife.
The Lord God shed blood to make a covering for Adam, and Eve.
God told Abel what to offer as a sacrifice which he did by faith because faith only comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Cain also knew what to offer but refused to be obedient.
Gen 4:5 but he did not accept Cain and his gift. This made Cain very angry, and he looked dejected.
Gen 4:6 “Why are you so angry?” the LORD asked Cain. “Why do you look so dejected?
Gen 4:7 You will be accepted if you do what is right. But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master.” (NLT)
PloughBoy
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New American Standard Bible Hebrews 10 :4,5
For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You prepared for Me.…
Hebrews 10:11
Day after day every priest stands to minister and to offer again and again the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
Hebrews 10:8
Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Psalm 50:8
…7“Hear, O My people, and I will speak, O Israel, and I will testify against you: I am God, your God. 8I do not rebuke you for your sacrifices,and your burnt offerings are ever before Me. 9I have no need for a bull from your stall or goats from your pens,…
and I can go all day like this:
Psalm 40:6
…5Many, O LORD my God, are the wonders You have done, and the plans You have for us—none can compare to You—if I proclaim and declare them, they are more than I can count. 6Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but my ears You have opened. Burnt offerings and sin offeringsYou did not require.
Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said: "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You prepared for Me.
PS Death still reign even today, just look around . The grave yards are full and the news is too and The morgues are too.
For this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Matthew 26:28
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1John 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace.
Ephesians 1:7
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Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ as obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance but as He which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by Him do believe in God, that raised Him up from the dead, and gave Him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Peter 1:13-21
Matthew 26:28
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1John 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace.
Ephesians 1:7
========================
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ as obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance but as He which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by Him do believe in God, that raised Him up from the dead, and gave Him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Peter 1:13-21
Cain had no faith by which he could believe God. None not little
I think it is all about the spiritual seed Christ and not seeds of the flesh . Flesh gives birth to flesh. But the Holy Spirit of God gives new spirit life that will never die or grow old
The law was there Christ signified is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world . The six days the Father did all the work .
The garden of Eden parable Genesis 3:!5 the bruising of the heel . It spoke of the sufferings of Christ beforehand and the final three days and nights demonstration which began in the garden of Gethsemane. and then two other witnesses the cross and the tomb.
Today we look back to the glorious demonstrations by the same Holy Spirit of faith of Christ that moved the old testament saints to look ahead .
Peter 1: 8 -11Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
Receiving the end of your (born again ) faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time (time of reformation) the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Therefore Abel the apostles was used first to testify beforehand of the sufferings of Christ.
Abel the first in the genealogy of the Son of man the spiritual seed that neither Cain had any interest in the unseen things of God .Just like Esau who sold his first born rites for a cup of goat hairy soup or Onan who refused to pass on the honor and splied the sed
Genesis 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
It is up to us yoked with him that we can search out a parable .( the signified understanding of God ) .Without him we can do nothing that would please Him.
The key is to compare the signified spiritual understand of a parable to the same unseen spiritual understanding. Called in Romans 1 faith to faith, or face to face in the revealed knowledge Christ
John 8 provides the same kind understanding of Genesis 4 .
Satan the father of lies working in Cain giving lies when questioned by the Holy Spirit .
Satan (666) a murderer from that demonstration. The father of all murderers or copy cats " hate and kill" out of sight out of mind . No invisible God.
Remember without a parable Christ the Holy Spirit of God spoke not . Parables as prophecy "teach us" how to walk by faith . (Christ in us) Not looking at the temporal corrupted things seen .
John 8: 43;44 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning,(Cain) and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: (Cain) for he is a liar, and the father of it.
It's up to us to learn how to mix faith as a labor of His Love. . He has left us the 20/20 prescription needed to rightly divide the parables .(2 Corinthians 4:18 ) I would offer do not study without it . Parables, God's poetic tongue hide the mysteries like that of Genesis 4 .
The mark of the beast , what God says does come to pass .
PloughBoy
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Could it be when men are exalting men, and there lies the difference, instead of both person are exalting "GOD" to the highest that He can be, and Giving ALL to The Glory of GOD and leave nothing else to man.
just pay attention to man's words and see how much credited men gives to men. 50% 20% 10% 5% even 1% credit to men pertaining to the things of GOD. "does he worship the creation [more] rather than The creator"Admon Mikha'el
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I don't know PB I didn't say that...ask the one who said it?
Admon Mikha'el
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The Word says that? I think not. It was more like Cain rebelled against God in the sacrifice
Hearing the kind of sacrifice was hearing the gospel.
Cain reused to hear the voice of God the gospel of Christ. .Cain gave it over to the father of lies a murderer from that beginning .
Abel the first listed apostle martyr who sufferer yoked with Christ as his new born again faith .
Cain the 666 mark of the beast spoken of in Revelation . The mark of God's Holy word . . What he declares comes to pass.
Study the use of the second born doctrine "spiritual seed" beginning with Abel ending with Jesus the Son of man .
Hi thanks for the reply. .
The faith of Christ's labor of love works in us ears to hear His understanding to both hear the living word and empower us to do it . if we do not harden our new born - again hearts .
Cain heard but did not do it to the good pleasure of the one who has the power. The key is both . Abel the apostle heard and was empowered to do it to the Father good pleasure .
Cain the false prophet murmured through lying. . . his way out .God sent him a strong delusion so he could kepon beliving the father of lies the god of this world
Abel did the will of the Father. . to the glory of God .
Philipians 2: 13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
B-A-C
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Abel is never called an Apostle anywhere in the Bible. In fact the word apostle isn't in the Old Testament anywhere.
People really need to quit making things up, and acting like they are in the Bible, and then building a doctrine out of something that isn't even in the Bible.
Rev 22:18; I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;
Curtis
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Luk 11:50 so that the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
Luk 11:51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the temple. Truly I say to you, It shall be required of this generation.
Jesus said that "Abel" was a "prophet"
Abel's acts of faith in his sacrifices foretold of the coming blood sacrifices that would be required from the Law way before the Law ever required them.
Luk 11:51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the temple. Truly I say to you, It shall be required of this generation.
Jesus said that "Abel" was a "prophet"
Abel's acts of faith in his sacrifices foretold of the coming blood sacrifices that would be required from the Law way before the Law ever required them.
Jonathan_Gale
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Although it's not explicited stated, it was very likely that God sacrificed an animal in order to make tunics for Adam and Eve, that's the first animal sacrifice, and that also set an example, and eventually it was codified into a set of Levitical law. Cain and Abel were the first natural born generation, Abel faithfully followed that example, Cain didn't, he on the other hand brought second rate offering, he was cutting corners, that is the "way of Cain".
lentz
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Sin brought death into the world and something had to die.
When God told Eve about the child that would crush the serpents head, he was alluding to this. Something had to shed blood to cover their nakedness(spiritual nakedness).
Yes the rapture will take place. Those who disagree have not studied the old testament.
Jonathan_Gale
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The question is not whether there is a rapture or not. It's how you define it. If you go for the dictionary definition "upcatching", then the image in your mind would be an alien abduction, you're just "poof", gone. I believe that's not taught anywhere in the OT, but in Hollywood's Left Behind series. This fantasy is sold to the parishioners as an easy way out. What the OT really taught was mass resurrection, and that's what Paul was alluding to. We'll be raised from the dead by the same power that raised Christ himself from the dead - when he returns.
lentz
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The old testament writers was speaking of exclusively of Israel. They knew nothung of the church age to even write about it. They didnt even mention another country. ISRAEL waited for the Messiah and then the Day of The Lord.Tribulation. Jacobs Trouble.
If Christ didnt put into plan an age,church,for gentiles to come in,time would have already ended by now.
