Protestants and Catholics

[Bill]

I have spent years defending Protestants from Catholics and Catholics from Protestants. Maybe i can help shed some light into an area few dare to tread.

 

[Brad Huber]

The main thing I dont like about the hierarchy of the RCC, is their inability to admit error about things they have done, as if they are without error, innerancy I think its called. I dont apply this to all followers of RCC, and some priests in some parishes follow the leading of the Lord regardless of what the papacy says. I see the RCC sort of like (just sort of) the cities of the Israel versus the cities of Judah. The northern tribe worshiped their own way and was larger more powerful nation most of the time than Judah, which Israel saw as vindication of being the true nation of faith. But just like the cities of Israel, the cities of Judah were also corrupted in soooo many ways, but considered themselves more holy because they werent as bad as Israel.

 

[B-A-C]

The word "Protestant" comes from the word "protest". What were we protesting? The Roman Catholic church.
Why? A lot of this comes from Luther's 95 Thesis. The typical list is something like this...

Who is the head of the church? Under the RCC it is the Pope. Under Porotestantism it is Jesus.
Who is our mediator? Under the RCC it is Mary. Under Protestantism it is Jesus. The RCC church calls Mary the mediatrix)
Who forgives sin? Under the RCC, it is the church. Under Protestantism it is Jesus.
Who do confess our sins to? Under the RCC, a priest. Under Protestantism, the person you sinned against if possible, and Jesus.

In the RCC church, the "Immaculate conception" is not Jesus being conceived by the Holy Spirit. It is Mary's birth. Somehow her birth is more important than Jesus's.
"Most" Protestant churches are named after God/Jesus/the Bible.
i.e Church of God, Church of Christ, Assembly of God, Church of Our Savior, Church of the Living Word, etc...
"Most" Catholic churches are named after Mary. Typically they have a statue of Mary.
i.e. Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception, Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Guadalupe, Our Pearl (or Rose) of Lima.

The Church of England (called the Anglican/Episcopal church in the US) also has priests and Vicars. The word "Vicar" means proxy or substitute.
This is your "substitute Jesus". For some reason it seems you are not allowed to talk to Jesus directly, or at least it isn't encouraged.
The CoE considers themselves to be a Protestant church, most other mainstream Protestant denominations do not consider them to be.
No priests in Protestantism. All believers are considered to be Priests now, Jesus is our High Priest.

Indulgences. - If you pay a determined amount of money to the Roman Catholic church, they can and will forgive your sins.
No indulgences in Protestantism. God/Jesus forgives your sins.

Infant Baptism/Confirmation - the Evangelical Lutheran Church and Anglican churches do this as well, But in Roman Catholicism, you can be baptized as an infant.
Then later (usually in your mid-teens) you have a "confirmation" ceremony, that confirms you are a Christian. This usually doesn't require any affirmation from yourself
as to acceptance of Jesus, the church simply decides you are saved. You never make the decision yourself.

Under the RCC, you have something called "Mass". This is always done by a priest. The RCC believes that the bread actually becomes the body of Jesus, and the juice/wine
actually becomes the blood of Jesus. The two purposes of a priest in the old Testament were sacrifice and confession. The RCC priests are still crucifying Jesus everytime they perform Mass.

In Protestantism, we have communion. This is done "In Remembrance" of what Jesus did. The bread and wine are simply symbols of Jesus's body and blood.

In the RCC Mary was sinless and remained a virgin for her days. She is also called the "Queen of Heaven". ( Read Jeremiah 44 about the Queen of Heaven )
In the Bible Jesus had a number of brothers and sisters. In the RCC Mary's parents are Joaquim and Anna. (Some RCC churches are named after Anna)
Neither of these names are mentioned in the Bible. The Bible says two of the disciples were Jesus's half-brothers. (James and Jude)

There is more... but these are the big differences.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I have spent years defending Protestants from Catholics and Catholics from Protestants. Maybe i can help shed some light into an area few dare to tread.

Go ahead Bill, there are plenty of worms in the pots.

 

[Bill]

Go ahead Bill, there are plenty of worms in the pots.

Im working today, truck driver, have to forgive my being slow

 

[Bill]

The main thing I dont like about the hierarchy of the RCC, is their inability to admit error about things they have done, as if they are without error, innerancy I think its called. I dont apply this to all followers of RCC, and some priests in some parishes follow the leading of the Lord regardless of what the papacy says. I see the RCC sort of like (just sort of) the cities of the Israel versus the cities of Judah. The northern tribe worshiped their own way and was larger more powerful nation most of the time than Judah, which Israel saw as vindication of being the true nation of faith. But just like the cities of Israel, the cities of Judah were also corrupted in soooo many ways, but considered themselves more holy because they werent as bad as Israel.

Yes there is plenty of errors. It is what caused the Reformation in the first place.

Some years ago, the Pope John Paul II really did quite an amazing job trying hard to bring everyone back together in one way or another. At least he did apologize to many as well recieve apologies.

( i know we discussed how important Forgiveness is both in recieving and giving for all forms of healing, and for God to be involved. )
This is also true for churches, to be reconciled with eachother.

The Catholics, Protestants, and Jews all need to find forgiveness and be forgiven. No one group is innocent .

 

[Bill]

The main thing I dont like about the hierarchy of the RCC, is their inability to admit error about things they have done, as if they are without error, innerancy I think its called. I dont apply this to all followers of RCC, and some priests in some parishes follow the leading of the Lord regardless of what the papacy says. I see the RCC sort of like (just sort of) the cities of the Israel versus the cities of Judah. The northern tribe worshiped their own way and was larger more powerful nation most of the time than Judah, which Israel saw as vindication of being the true nation of faith. But just like the cities of Israel, the cities of Judah were also corrupted in soooo many ways, but considered themselves more holy because they werent as bad as Israel.

The part that is considered, infallible, goes back to Jesus telling Peter , what you allow on earth will be allowed in heaven ( paraphasing )

In the Catholic church , they trace thier lineage back to Peter, being the First Pope.

( an interesting fact . When builders were working on the church at St Peters, in the Vatican. They were digging under the building to shore up the foundation. While doing this they discovered a tomb. Doctors were called in to look at the body. Based on what was found. They determined it was the body of Peter. The doctors stated, the person had been crucified upside down. There was other evidence that gave proof to the same conclusion. --- to me , the thing i find most interesting. Where the body was found, directly under the alter at St Peters church. [ Jesus called Peter Rock " and upon this rock i will build my church ])

Just something to think about.

 

[Bill]

The word "Protestant" comes from the word "protest". What were we protesting? The Roman Catholic church.
Why? A lot of this comes from Luther's 95 Thesis. The typical list is something like this...

Who is the head of the church? Under the RCC it is the Pope. Under Porotestantism it is Jesus.
Who is our mediator? Under the RCC it is Mary. Under Protestantism it is Jesus. The RCC church calls Mary the mediatrix)
Who forgives sin? Under the RCC, it is the church. Under Protestantism it is Jesus.
Who do confess our sins to? Under the RCC, a priest. Under Protestantism, the person you sinned against if possible, and Jesus.

In the RCC church, the "Immaculate conception" is not Jesus being conceived by the Holy Spirit. It is Mary's birth. Somehow her birth is more important than Jesus's.
"Most" Protestant churches are named after God/Jesus/the Bible.
i.e Church of God, Church of Christ, Assembly of God, Church of Our Savior, Church of the Living Word, etc...
"Most" Catholic churches are named after Mary. Typically they have a statue of Mary.
i.e. Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception, Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Guadalupe, Our Pearl (or Rose) of Lima.

The Church of England (called the Anglican/Episcopal church in the US) also has priests and Vicars. The word "Vicar" means proxy or substitute.
This is your "substitute Jesus". For some reason it seems you are not allowed to talk to Jesus directly, or at least it isn't encouraged.
The CoE considers themselves to be a Protestant church, most other mainstream Protestant denominations do not consider them to be.
No priests in Protestantism. All believers are considered to be Priests now, Jesus is our High Priest.

Indulgences. - If you pay a determined amount of money to the Roman Catholic church, they can and will forgive your sins.
No indulgences in Protestantism. God/Jesus forgives your sins.

Infant Baptism/Confirmation - the Evangelical Lutheran Church and Anglican churches do this as well, But in Roman Catholicism, you can be baptized as an infant.
Then later (usually in your mid-teens) you have a "confirmation" ceremony, that confirms you are a Christian. This usually doesn't require any affirmation from yourself
as to acceptance of Jesus, the church simply decides you are saved. You never make the decision yourself.

Under the RCC, you have something called "Mass". This is always done by a priest. The RCC believes that the bread actually becomes the body of Jesus, and the juice/wine
actually becomes the blood of Jesus. The two purposes of a priest in the old Testament were sacrifice and confession. The RCC priests are still crucifying Jesus everytime they perform Mass.

In Protestantism, we have communion. This is done "In Remembrance" of what Jesus did. The bread and wine are simply symbols of Jesus's body and blood.

In the RCC Mary was sinless and remained a virgin for her days. She is also called the "Queen of Heaven". ( Read Jeremiah 44 about the Queen of Heaven )
In the Bible Jesus had a number of brothers and sisters. In the RCC Mary's parents are Joaquim and Anna. (Some RCC churches are named after Anna)
Neither of these names are mentioned in the Bible. The Bible says two of the disciples were Jesus's half-brothers. (James and Jude)

There is more... but these are the big differences.

You forgot Purgatory. Lol

 

[Brother-Paul]

Some years ago, the Pope John Paul II really did quite an amazing job trying hard to bring everyone back together in one way or another. At least he did apologize to many as well recieve apologies.

What I think you are saying here Bill is, all come vack together in agreement with the RCC errors.

That is the point the RCC won't admit to the errors

Shalom

 

[Bill]

The word "Protestant" comes from the word "protest". What were we protesting? The Roman Catholic church.
Why? A lot of this comes from Luther's 95 Thesis. The typical list is something like this...

Who is the head of the church? Under the RCC it is the Pope. Under Porotestantism it is Jesus.
Who is our mediator? Under the RCC it is Mary. Under Protestantism it is Jesus. The RCC church calls Mary the mediatrix)
Who forgives sin? Under the RCC, it is the church. Under Protestantism it is Jesus.
Who do confess our sins to? Under the RCC, a priest. Under Protestantism, the person you sinned against if possible, and Jesus.

In the RCC church, the "Immaculate conception" is not Jesus being conceived by the Holy Spirit. It is Mary's birth. Somehow her birth is more important than Jesus's.
"Most" Protestant churches are named after God/Jesus/the Bible.
i.e Church of God, Church of Christ, Assembly of God, Church of Our Savior, Church of the Living Word, etc...
"Most" Catholic churches are named after Mary. Typically they have a statue of Mary.
i.e. Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception, Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Guadalupe, Our Pearl (or Rose) of Lima.

The Church of England (called the Anglican/Episcopal church in the US) also has priests and Vicars. The word "Vicar" means proxy or substitute.
This is your "substitute Jesus". For some reason it seems you are not allowed to talk to Jesus directly, or at least it isn't encouraged.
The CoE considers themselves to be a Protestant church, most other mainstream Protestant denominations do not consider them to be.
No priests in Protestantism. All believers are considered to be Priests now, Jesus is our High Priest.

Indulgences. - If you pay a determined amount of money to the Roman Catholic church, they can and will forgive your sins.
No indulgences in Protestantism. God/Jesus forgives your sins.

Infant Baptism/Confirmation - the Evangelical Lutheran Church and Anglican churches do this as well, But in Roman Catholicism, you can be baptized as an infant.
Then later (usually in your mid-teens) you have a "confirmation" ceremony, that confirms you are a Christian. This usually doesn't require any affirmation from yourself
as to acceptance of Jesus, the church simply decides you are saved. You never make the decision yourself.

Under the RCC, you have something called "Mass". This is always done by a priest. The RCC believes that the bread actually becomes the body of Jesus, and the juice/wine
actually becomes the blood of Jesus. The two purposes of a priest in the old Testament were sacrifice and confession. The RCC priests are still crucifying Jesus everytime they perform Mass.

In Protestantism, we have communion. This is done "In Remembrance" of what Jesus did. The bread and wine are simply symbols of Jesus's body and blood.

In the RCC Mary was sinless and remained a virgin for her days. She is also called the "Queen of Heaven". ( Read Jeremiah 44 about the Queen of Heaven )
In the Bible Jesus had a number of brothers and sisters. In the RCC Mary's parents are Joaquim and Anna. (Some RCC churches are named after Anna)
Neither of these names are mentioned in the Bible. The Bible says two of the disciples were Jesus's half-brothers. (James and Jude)

There is more... but these are the big differences.

I have never read Luthers 95 thesis.

I know that some of his arguements were valid. And we have to remember at that time , the Catholic Church hierarchy was corupt with power. ( not all, but most )

I know if PloughBoy were here he would remind us how power corrupts, if you do not set Jesus first. Unfortunately, there never seems to be enough of the good guys to remove that darkness .

I mentioned John Paul earlier, he was, in my opinion what the Catholics need all the time. A man who continually set Jesus first.

 

[Bill]

What I think you are saying here Bill is, all come vack together in agreement with the RCC errors.

That is the point the RCC won't admit to the errors

Shalom

The RRC will have to submit at some point in the future.

I know i can not prove my conversations with God. But the Lord has told me as Revelation unfolds, the Catholics and Protestants will reunite as one, to become the reminant church.

As it now stands, in the catholic church, it looks like there will be a split in the near future, as this present Pope is not in the Lord. And many can see it

 

[Bill]

The word "Protestant" comes from the word "protest". What were we protesting? The Roman Catholic church.
Why? A lot of this comes from Luther's 95 Thesis. The typical list is something like this...

Who is the head of the church? Under the RCC it is the Pope. Under Porotestantism it is Jesus.
Who is our mediator? Under the RCC it is Mary. Under Protestantism it is Jesus. The RCC church calls Mary the mediatrix)
Who forgives sin? Under the RCC, it is the church. Under Protestantism it is Jesus.
Who do confess our sins to? Under the RCC, a priest. Under Protestantism, the person you sinned against if possible, and Jesus.

In the RCC church, the "Immaculate conception" is not Jesus being conceived by the Holy Spirit. It is Mary's birth. Somehow her birth is more important than Jesus's.
"Most" Protestant churches are named after God/Jesus/the Bible.
i.e Church of God, Church of Christ, Assembly of God, Church of Our Savior, Church of the Living Word, etc...
"Most" Catholic churches are named after Mary. Typically they have a statue of Mary.
i.e. Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception, Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Guadalupe, Our Pearl (or Rose) of Lima.

The Church of England (called the Anglican/Episcopal church in the US) also has priests and Vicars. The word "Vicar" means proxy or substitute.
This is your "substitute Jesus". For some reason it seems you are not allowed to talk to Jesus directly, or at least it isn't encouraged.
The CoE considers themselves to be a Protestant church, most other mainstream Protestant denominations do not consider them to be.
No priests in Protestantism. All believers are considered to be Priests now, Jesus is our High Priest.

Indulgences. - If you pay a determined amount of money to the Roman Catholic church, they can and will forgive your sins.
No indulgences in Protestantism. God/Jesus forgives your sins.

Infant Baptism/Confirmation - the Evangelical Lutheran Church and Anglican churches do this as well, But in Roman Catholicism, you can be baptized as an infant.
Then later (usually in your mid-teens) you have a "confirmation" ceremony, that confirms you are a Christian. This usually doesn't require any affirmation from yourself
as to acceptance of Jesus, the church simply decides you are saved. You never make the decision yourself.

Under the RCC, you have something called "Mass". This is always done by a priest. The RCC believes that the bread actually becomes the body of Jesus, and the juice/wine
actually becomes the blood of Jesus. The two purposes of a priest in the old Testament were sacrifice and confession. The RCC priests are still crucifying Jesus everytime they perform Mass.

In Protestantism, we have communion. This is done "In Remembrance" of what Jesus did. The bread and wine are simply symbols of Jesus's body and blood.

In the RCC Mary was sinless and remained a virgin for her days. She is also called the "Queen of Heaven". ( Read Jeremiah 44 about the Queen of Heaven )
In the Bible Jesus had a number of brothers and sisters. In the RCC Mary's parents are Joaquim and Anna. (Some RCC churches are named after Anna)
Neither of these names are mentioned in the Bible. The Bible says two of the disciples were Jesus's half-brothers. (James and Jude)

There is more... but these are the big differences.

You have a lot in your words, and i will plow though them . But i have to go drive some more

 

[Brother-Paul]

( i know we discussed how important Forgiveness is both in recieving and giving for all forms of healing, and for God to be involved. )
This is also true for churches, to be reconciled with eachother

What is a church Bill, what are the churche's?

There is only one church, the ekklesia, the body of Christ, it consists of born again from above souls who have been washed and spiritually regenerated. Regardless of, age, sex, colour or tounge.

How did the misunderstanding come about? The RCC decided they would call the building a church! How did they do it? They introduced a new word, kuriakon, for church, meaning building, which is NOT in a scripture anywhere!

The word church was then used for the building and the congregation. The RCC created the error we have today, that even after the reformation it was continued by must denominations. The TRUE church, the Body of Christ, is not the building, it is not the congregation of lost and saved souls, no, the True Church is not even a denomination, (man created) the TRUE Church, according to scripture, is born again from above souls who have been washed and spiritually regenerated. Regardless of, age, sex, colour or tounge.

Shalom

 

[Bill]

I just want to say, if im not answering adequately please let me know. Some answers are complicated

 

[Bill]

What is a church Bill, what are the churche's?

There is only one church, the ekklesia, the body of Christ, it consists of born again from above souls who have been washed and spiritually regenerated. Regardless of, age, sex, colour or tounge.

How did the misunderstanding come about? The RCC decided they would call the building a church! How did they do it? They introduced a new word, kuriakon, for church, meaning building, which is NOT in a scripture anywhere!

The word church was then used for the building and the congregation. The RCC created the error we have today, that even after the reformation it was continued by must denominations. The TRUE church, the Body of Christ, is not the building, it is not the congregation of lost and saved souls, no, the True Church is not even a denomination, (man created) the TRUE Church, according to scripture, is born again from above souls who have been washed and spiritually regenerated. Regardless of, age, sex, colour or tounge.

Shalom

We have to remember , the way the scripture was written . It is both physical and spiritual at the same time.

When i read the scripture i see it in both concepts all the time.

This was why i added that part about Peters body being found under the alter. It verified what Jesus stated where we read in scripture.

Now dont fret over whether this means the Vatacain is " The Church" because " The Church is those who Love God " there are many who Love God, that do not call themselves Christian by name.

All scripture has to agree with itself.

So when we read, a true Jew is one who's heart is Circumcised, the scripture isnt talking about the Jews as the people. The scripture is talking about those who Love God

 

[Brother-Paul]

In the Catholic church , they trace thier lineage back to Peter, being the First Pope.

This I cannot accept and find nothing in scripture to confirm it. It was a decision by the RCC, to create a Pope and say there was lineage back to Peter. If a anyone can prove different, according to scripture, I will always listen, so far I have found nothing to back up the RCC claim.

( an interesting fact . When builders were working on the church at St Peters, in the Vatican. They were digging under the building to shore up the foundation. While doing this they discovered a tomb. Doctors were called in to look at the body. Based on what was found. They determined it was the body of Peter. The doctors stated, the person had been crucified upside down. There was other evidence that gave proof to the same conclusion. --- to me , the thing i find most interesting. Where the body was found, directly under the alter at St Peters church. [ Jesus called Peter Rock " and upon this rock i will build my church ])

I was only reading about this a short while ago, not as you have put it Bill, but the fact Peter was crucified upside down.

From what I read, it stated that Peter requested to be crucified upside down, because he didn't feel worthy to be crucified the same way up as Jesus was.

True or false I did not know, be we do k ow it is the sort of thing Petdr could say.

Shalom

 

[JerryfromMass]

I have spent years defending Protestants from Catholics and Catholics from Protestants. Maybe i can help shed some light into an area few dare to tread.

I was raised very strict Roman Catholic. When I left the RCC and was born again, my first witness audience was my RC family. Many still won't associate with me.

Now having been in fellowship with my brethren in the assembly of "Baptists" for a number of years, there are common threads that run through both camps, that is: many are super-religious, many are hyper-political with some rabid left-wing and some rabid right-wing, not all are lost, not all are saved, and many in both camps believe one's good works merit God's favor.

I pray for all to put their faith trust and rest in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Bill]

This I cannot accept and find nothing in scripture to confirm it. It was a decision by the RCC, to create a Pope and say there was lineage back to Peter. If a anyone can prove different, according to scripture, I will always listen, so far I have found nothing to back up the RCC claim.





I was only reading about this a short while ago, not as you have put it Bill, but the fact Peter was crucified upside down.

From what I read, it stated that Peter requested to be crucified upside down, because he didn't feel worthy to be crucified the same way up as Jesus was.

True or false I did not know, be we do k ow it is the sort of thing Petdr could say.

Shalom

Yes , Peter was crucified upside down.

 

[Bill]

This I cannot accept and find nothing in scripture to confirm it. It was a decision by the RCC, to create a Pope and say there was lineage back to Peter. If a anyone can prove different, according to scripture, I will always listen, so far I have found nothing to back up the RCC claim.





I was only reading about this a short while ago, not as you have put it Bill, but the fact Peter was crucified upside down.

From what I read, it stated that Peter requested to be crucified upside down, because he didn't feel worthy to be crucified the same way up as Jesus was.

True or false I did not know, be we do k ow it is the sort of thing Petdr could say.

Shalom

Im not certain when the word Pope was first started. But the catholic church can trace its roots back to Peter.

Of course that being said, all Christians, should be able to trace thier heritages back to Peter.

Remember, before the refermation, we were all one. Well if you just keep going backwards, everyone split off somewhere

 

[Bill]

I was raised very strict Roman Catholic. When I left the RCC and was born again, my first witness audience was my RC family. Many still won't associate with me.

Now having been in fellowship with my brethren in the assembly of "Baptists" for a number of years, there are common threads that run through both camps, that is: many are super-religious, many are hyper-political with some rabid left-wing and some rabid right-wing, not all are lost, not all are saved, and many in both camps believe one's good works merit God's favor.

I pray for all to put their faith trust and rest in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I anxiously wait for the days when the churches reunite.

It is then that the fulness of the Spirit will become manifest.

With all the animosity out of the way. We will finally see very strong faith.

Yes, yes. I know you think your faith is strong now. Lol. When those days come, you will be able to move mountains . And i am talking real mountains.

How many times have you heard me tell Sue, a block of snow will be on her roof . 10 x 10 x 10 feet .

Ye of little faith, all is possible in God.

I have also stated, that for putting up with me , all here will recieve the same. It will come when you desperately need it. And if you share it, it will remain. No matter how much is taken, even if all of it is taken because you shared it. The next day it will return. But if you do not share it, it will be take from you in a single day.
It will not melt, but after removing some, it will. That is my gift to all here. It wont matter if you can not believe it. I dont expect you to at this time.