Protestants and Catholics

[Bill]

This I cannot accept and find nothing in scripture to confirm it. It was a decision by the RCC, to create a Pope and say there was lineage back to Peter. If a anyone can prove different, according to scripture, I will always listen, so far I have found nothing to back up the RCC claim.





I was only reading about this a short while ago, not as you have put it Bill, but the fact Peter was crucified upside down.

From what I read, it stated that Peter requested to be crucified upside down, because he didn't feel worthy to be crucified the same way up as Jesus was.

True or false I did not know, be we do k ow it is the sort of thing Petdr could say.

Shalom

The RRC never created a pope, btw. It was Jesus who gave the keys to Peter

 

[Brother-Paul]

Im not certain when the word Pope was first started. But the catholic church can trace its roots back to Peter.

Of course that being said, all Christians, should be able to trace thier heritages back to Peter.

Remember, before the refermation, we were all one. Well if you just keep going backwards, everyone split off somewhere

Before the reformation people weren't educated like today, over the years they accepted what the RCC told them. They accepted what father this or father that told them. (Scripture says we should call no one Father except our Father in heaven.)

It needed an educated person, a brother in Christ, to challenge the RCC errors, Luther was the man chosen by God to do just that.

God will only let things go so far, then he had to step in, he would not let the church, the Body of Christ, be damaged by the RCC untruths.

Sadly even to this day the RCC fail to not only accept the errors but continue to do them.

 

[B-A-C]

In the Catholic church , they trace thier lineage back to Peter, being the First Pope.

Except for...
1. Peter was married. ( 1Cor 9:5; Matt 8:14; )
2. There is no mention in the Bible of Peter ever going to Rome.
3. Peter is called the apostle to the Jews, and Paul is called the apostle to the Gentiles (Romans). Gal 2:7;

Most secular records show the RC church being started by Constantine in the 3rd century.

 

[B-A-C]

The RRC never created a pope, btw. It was Jesus who gave the keys to Peter

The church wasn't built on Peter, it was built on the revelation that Jesus is the Son of God.

Matt 16:16; Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Matt 16:17; And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Matt 16:18; "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

The "this in verse 18, is the same "this" in verse 17. The words "Peter" and "keys" aren't in the Bible together anywhere.

 

[Downunder]

Yes , Peter was crucified upside down.

I doubt that very much as the whole point of the crucifixion was to cause excruciating suffering by hanging and compressing the rib cage.
Oh them Romans knew how to inflict pain.

 

[Downunder]

3. Peter is called the apostle to the Gentiles, and Paul is called the apostle to the Gentiles (Romans). Gal 2:7;

Ooops Peter was the apostle for the Jews, the circumcised ...

 

[Downunder]

The second beast in Revelation 13 is a description of the rise from the ashes of the old Roman Empire a new Roman Empire with a new emperor - the Bishop of Rome - which became over history the Papacy.
Boniface III in 606AD declared himself to be the supreme bishop in the Holy Roman Empire and to have authority over all other bishops.
In 1054 AD Constantinople and Rome parted ways in the Great Schism between the Byzantine churches and the Latin church.
A succession of ecclesiastical differences and theological disputes between the Greek East and Latin West preceded the formal split that occurred in 1054.
Prominent among these were the issues: of the procession of the Holy Spirit, whether leavened or unleavened bread should be used in the Eucharist, the Bishop of Rome's claim to universal jurisdiction,
and the place of the See of Constantinople in relation to the pentarchy.
In 1053, the first step in the process which led to a formal schism was taken: the Greek churches in southern Italy were forced to conform to Latin practices and if any of them did not, they were forced to close.

 

[Downunder]

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
ROME is the city of Christian history that sits upon seven hills. The RCC is the largest worldwide church of immense material wealth and political power, beyond any other rivals.

 

[B-A-C]

Ooops Peter was the apostle for the Jews, the circumcised ...

Yes. sorry. Typo.

 

[Gregoryp]

Yes there is plenty of errors. It is what caused the Reformation in the first place.

Some years ago, the Pope John Paul II really did quite an amazing job trying hard to bring everyone back together in one way or another. At least he did apologize to many as well recieve apologies.

( i know we discussed how important Forgiveness is both in recieving and giving for all forms of healing, and for God to be involved. )
This is also true for churches, to be reconciled with eachother.

The Catholics, Protestants, and Jews all need to find forgiveness and be forgiven. No one group is innocent .

And that right there, brings us to the one world religion. Which is prophesied in the bible. It has evil intention and will be the basis of the anti christ.

 

[Bill]

Before the reformation people weren't educated like today, over the years they accepted what the RCC told them. They accepted what father this or father that told them. (Scripture says we should call no one Father except our Father in heaven.)

It needed an educated person, a brother in Christ, to challenge the RCC errors, Luther was the man chosen by God to do just that.

God will only let things go so far, then he had to step in, he would not let the church, the Body of Christ, be damaged by the RCC untruths.

Sadly even to this day the RCC fail to not only accept the errors but continue to do them.

I dont think i would place Luther in such a hero worship light, as he was no angel either, infact he was very promiscuous and involved in all manner of the flesh after removing himself as a priest. ( did you know he was an ordained priest?)

As for errors, there are plenty on both sides.

 

[Bill]

Except for...
1. Peter was married. ( 1Cor 9:5; Matt 8:14; )
2. There is no mention in the Bible of Peter ever going to Rome.
3. Peter is called the apostle to the Gentiles, and Paul is called the apostle to the Gentiles (Romans). Gal 2:7;

Most secular records show the RC church being started by Constantine in the 3rd century.

Yes, the RCC got the name in the 3rd century. But all of the Christians going back to Peter, started from the Apostles.

 

[Bill]

Go ahead Bill, there are plenty of worms in the pots.

You are right, i did open a can of worms.

As you can see , it will take a miracle to get everyone on the same page.

I know that the antiChrist will come during my lifetime. And i am 62 now.

Time is very short

 

[Bill]

And that right there, brings us to the one world religion. Which is prophesied in the bible. It has evil intention and will be the basis of the anti christ.

I hate to tell you this, but the one world church has already begun building itself up.

 

[Gregoryp]

I hate to tell you this, but the one world church has already begun building itself up.

yes, it has been going on for many years now. Their mantra will be, as long as well sit around the table , hold hands and sing Koumbaya all will be well. All roads lead to the heavenly father apparently. A total lie of course, the only way is via Jesus Christ.

 

[Br. Bear]

Ooops Peter was the apostle for the Jews, the circumcised ...

Yes. sorry. Typo.

typo fixed, Brothers

Jesus is Lord


Bless you ....><>

 

[Hekuran]

The Church of England (called the Anglican/Episcopal church in the US) also has priests and Vicars. The word "Vicar" means proxy or substitute.
This is your "substitute Jesus". For some reason it seems you are not allowed to talk to Jesus directly, or at least it isn't encouraged.

@B-A-C I don't know what your source for this information is, but it's wildly inaccurate. I grew up in the Church of England, have attended Church of England churches for most of my life and even worked for the church for a year or so.

I have never heard anybody in the church express this kind of opinion. It is untrue. Nobody thinks of a vicar as a substitute Jesus. An Anglican service will typically open with this prayer

Almighty God, to whom all hearts are open, all desires known, and from whom no secrets are hidden; cleanse the thoughts of our hearts by the inspiration of your Holy Spirit, so that we may truly love you and worthily praise your holy name; through our Saviour, Jesus Christ. Amen.

That reflects Anglican theology quite well: we come to the Father through Jesus, inspired by the Holy Spirit.

 

[B-A-C]

I have never heard anybody in the church express this kind of opinion. It is untrue. Nobody thinks of a vicar as a substitute Jesus. An Anglican service will typically open with this prayer

It is definitely true in some churches here. It's also definitely true Vicar means proxy or substitute.

Definition of VICAR

an ecclesiastical agent: such as; a Church of England incumbent receiving a stipend but not the tithes of a parish; a member of the Episcopal clergy or laity who has charge of a mission or chapel… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Downunder]

From ... Catholic Answers
Vicar of Christ
Vicar of Christ (Lat. Vicarius Christi), a title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honour and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ.
It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: “Feed my lambs… Feed my sheep” (John, xxi, 16, 17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostles guardian of His entire flock in His own place,
thus making him His Vicar and fulfilling the promise made in Matt. xvi, 18, 19.
In the course of ages other vicarial designations have been used for the pope, as Vicar of St. Peter and even Vicar of the Apostolic See (Pope Gelasius, I, Ep. vi), but the title Vicar of Christ is more expressive of
his supreme headship of the Church on earth, which he bears in virtue of the commission of Christ and with vicarial power derived from Him.
Thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. “Inter corporalia”, 2, “De trans. ep.”). He also declares that Christ has given such power only to His Vicar Peter
and his successors (cap. “Quanto”, 3, ibid.), and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is “the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ” (cap. “` Licet”, 4, ibid.).
The title Vicar of God used for the pope by Nicholas III (c. “Fundamenta ejus”, 17, “De elect.”, in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ.

WILLIAM H. W. FANNING

 

[Downunder]

2Thess 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for that day cannot come without the coming of the apostasy first, and the appearing of the man of sin, the son of perdition, who sets himself against,
2:4 and exalts himself above, every so-called 'god' or object of worship, and goes the length of taking his seat in the very temple of God, giving it out that he himself is God.
(Weymouth)
and to whom can this better apply than to the bishops of Rome, to whom the most blasphemous titles have been given, as Dominus Deus noster papa - Our Lord God the pope; Deus alter in terrâ - Another God on earth;
(from Matthew Henry commentary on this verse)