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Protestants and Catholics

When one topic goes against the grain for you Bill, you change tact.

Let me put it to you, you have not accepted very much of what I have said, or what others have said on here, so let me ask you to tell us...

Was Judas Iscariot name written in heaven?


You answer well on the one Bill.

After a whole night in prayer Jesus chose his disciples. Judas was amongst those called by Jesus. Judas was one of the twelve chosen to be disciples.

There are a number of key points I believe.

John 15:3 tells us at that time all the disciples were 'clean'

Over the three years plus of Jesus' ministry, certainly most of that period, Judas was a follower of Jesus, he did get itchy fingers for the purse towards the end, satan was breaking him down, but the key point here is the 'satan entered Judas'. Why did satan enter Judas? Because Judas' guard was down, satan entered Judas to get at Jesus, that was satan's target.

The question 'was Judas Iscariot's name written in Heaven' is easy to answer, but to ask instead 'will Judas Iscariot himself be in heaven is a different question all together. His name will be on the foundation pillars that come down from heaven, the foundation stones of the church, because he was part of the foundation called from the beginning. But was Judas saved, will he be in heaven? I would say No!

Jesus would have wanted Judas to repent, 2 Peter 3:9, but as we know Judas didn't repent.

We also know from John 6:70 that Jesus knew who was to betray him and called Judas 'a devil'.

Shalom
 
There is a series of books called " the sunday sermons of the founding fathers" these were all sermons that were hand written and passed on till the printting press came along, i suggest reading them


But the sermons you talk about Bill are not scripture, like the Apocrypha which are mainly church documents, they are not scripture, they are not canonised documents.
 
I know im not as articulate as some, but you are just not hearing what i am saying . Almost every point i brought up that you quote , your answers are way off .


In your opinion Bill, what I have written I have confirm with scripture or confirmed they are scripture based, items we should know.

What you have quoted in most cases is your view, I have asked you to confirm with scripture and you fail to do so.

That is why you feel the replies are way off.

Lets talk scripture, lets back up what we say with scripture, not what another book says (unless that backs up with scripture), not what the pope or RCC say or believe (unless it is backed up with scripture)

Shalom
 
There is a series of books called " the sunday sermons of the founding fathers" these were all sermons that were hand written and passed on till the printting press came along, i suggest reading them
Just because they were passed on doesn't necessitate that they are valid. People have done extensive research into this,
 
I guess all that matters, is being a Believer!

All else is really meaningless.

God will determine that and all else in the end!
Yes indeed , its the bottom line that really matters ( the way i view everything else , just politics )
 
Just because they were passed on doesn't necessitate that they are valid. People have done extensive research into this,
Extensive research into what, these books? I dont think most people even know they exist. Just like the Book of Enoch, not many even know of it.

It is good to use those Gifts of the Holy Spirit, Discernment can really be a witness where knowing the truth is necessary.
 
But the sermons you talk about Bill are not scripture, like the Apocrypha which are mainly church documents, they are not scripture, they are not canonised documents.
Unlike the Apocrypha you mean, The Apocrypha is part of the Scripture ,as they are called are by some. Just not Protestant Bibles . All come from the Old Testiment . The books of Maccabees and others.
 
Yes indeed , its the bottom line that really matters ( the way i view everything else , just politics )


GreetingsBill,

It is the bottom line, providing we are born again from above, washed and regenerated believers.

John 3:1-21, 1 Peter 3:21.

All scripture is God breathed and provides us with all guidance and instructions to Salvation.

Shalom
 
Unlike the Apocrypha you mean, The Apocrypha is part of the Scripture ,as they are called are by some. Just not Protestant Bibles . All come from the Old Testiment . The books of Maccabees and others.


Greetings Bill,

To save me a lot of typing please read the following, it clearly covers both arguments for and against the Apocrypha being accepted as part of the sacred text.

Truth about the Apocrypha

The books which comprise our Bible, sixty-six in number, from Genesis through Revelation, have been subjected to every internal and external test imaginable.
Their authenticity and canonicity have been reliably established. There are other books, however, which some believe should be considered part of the Bible. These books are called the Apocrypha. The word "apocrypha" is of Greek origin, actually being simply a transliteration of the original Greek word. "Apocrypha" is used in Mark 4: 22 and is commonly translated "secret." The evolution of the word "apocrypha" simply meaning secret or hidden to how it is commonly used today is of interest and provides a look at the climate that fostered the "apocrypha books." It appears that in the beginning, "apocrypha" was a term used to designate religious books that were circulating among the inner circle of a group and were kept hidden from the public because people at large rejected the authority of these books. There was the thinking that these books contained information that was esoteric and only for special ones; hence, the evolved term "apocrypha" evoked the mysterious and clandestine.

The apocryphal books. In the main, when the Apocrypha is mentioned the fourteen or fifteen books of the "Old Testament" are meant. However, there are other writings that are known as the New Testament apocrypha. Apocrypha also can have reference to a book whose origin was doubtful or unknown. The "Old Testament apocrypha" are believed to have been written during the period of 200 B.C. to 100 A.D. Some of perhaps the better known are "The Wisdom of Solomon," The Additions to the Book of Esther," and "The First and Second Maccabees." The "Catholic Bible" often has twelve of these apocryphal books interspersed among and attached to the undisputed thirty-nine books of the Hebrew scriptures, I understand.

Involved in a study of the apocrypha is the matter of canonicity. The term "canon" is from the Greek word kanon. Kanon, based on its derivation means a rod or measuring device and came to mean a norm or rule. Canon came to be used to denote the recognized books of sacred writings and was thus used in the fourth century. The act, fact, and science of canonicity or canonizing is a fascinating study (the terms apocrypha and canonicity are basically antithetical and opposite in meaning, climate, and concept).

The history of the Hebrews does not provide us with real insight as to their process of canonicity or how they determined the authenticity of a book considered as scripture. It is evident, however, that they did have "an act" that so recognized and declared a book as sacred 2 Kings 22: 8 One reason we do not have much insight as to the science of canonicity during the time of the writing and acceptance of the thirty-nine Hebrew books that comprise what man calls the "Old Testament" is because there really was no need. I say this because of the strict practices of the Jews relative to the writings of those men such as Moses, Jeremiah, Isaiah, etc. whose inspiration was established. The writings were carefully protected and greatly valued (cp. Deut 31: 9, Deut 24-26, I Kings 8:9 ). Copies of the original writings were made in the most controlled atmosphere possible and imaginable (cp. Prov 25:1 ). There were no translations, as such, until about 270 B. C.; hence, corruption from translation was non-existent.

Analysis and "canonicity" determination relative to the twenty-seven books of the New Testament involved both internal and external considerations. The authorship, style of writing, general content, and the extant view of the book by contemporaries were all considerations used in pronouncing a New Testament book as part of the sacred canon. A New Testament book could also be used to verify the canonicity of a Hebrew book, once the authenticity of the New Testament was clearly established. For instance, about thirty-one of the Hebrew books are quoted and acknowledged by New Testament writers (the fact that eight out of the 39 are not quoted does not mean they are non-canonical).

Just as was the case with the thirty-nine Hebrew books found in our Bibles, the New Testament books were known by their contemporaries as bearing the vestiges of inspiration (2 Peter1: 21; 2 Tim 3:16-17). In about the year A.D. 90, the Jewish Council of Jamnia ruled though a process of debate, examination, and canonicity that the Hebrew canon should consist of the thirty-nine books commonly found in such translations as the King James (Answers to Tough Questions, by Josh McDowell and Don Stewart, pg. 37). In 327 A.D., Athanasius of Alexandria published a list of twenty-seven New Testament books that were recognized in his day as authentic (How we got the Bible, by Neil Lightfoot, pg. 85). These are the same twenty-seven books as are found in our standard New Testaments today. These sixty-six books commonly comprising our Bibles all had the requisite recognition by those who were in a position to really know as to the acceptance of the claims of these books.

For instance, Paul wrote: "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write you are the commandments of the Lord" (I Cor 14:37 ). (The apocrypha, by contrast, make more of a claim of simply being history books rather than being inspired of God, cp. II Maccabees 2:23, 15:38.)

Arguments in favor of the apocrypha
. First, it might come as a surprise but the Catholic Church that is so instrumental in presenting the apocrypha books as part of the sacred canon did not so recognize these apocrypha books until about fifteen hundred years removed from the First Century. It was in the Council of Trent, 1545-1563 A.D. that the Roman Catholic Church declared the apocrypha as canonical, as far as the Catholic Church was concerned.

There have been many arguments advanced in favor of the apocrypha. The first and foremost of which is based on the first translation made of the Hebrew scriptures, the Septuagint, translated into Greek in about 270 B.C. More of the extant apocrypha books began to be added to the Septuagint as time progressed, that is, to some of the copies of the Septuagint. Since Jesus and New Testament writers often quoted from the Septuagint when quoting Hebrew scriptures (some say that 300 out of the 350 quotations of Hebrew scriptures by Jesus are from the Septuagint), we are told that such a fact proves that the apocrypha books are to be accepted as part of the Bible today. We have noticed that just about all the Hebrew books are referenced by New Testament writers; however, while Jesus and the New Testament writers often quoted from the books of the "Old Testament," even from the Septuagint that had some versions containing apocrypha books, they never once quoted from the apocrypha books.

In attempting to validate the apocrypha, it is stated that the "Church fathers" referenced the apocrypha books. It is true that Iranaeus, Tertullian, and Clement of Alexandria recognized the apocrypha, as did the Syriac Church in the fourth century. Augustine, who presided over the Councils at Hippo and Carthage reportedly also held these books as inspired. Later, though, Augustine is said to have rejected these books as outside the canon and inferior to the Hebrew scriptures. Also, just as many leading men in the time period rejected the apocrypha and claimed that they were spurious, such leaders as Origen and Jerome. The mentioned Syriac Church waited until the fourth century A.D. to officially accept the apocrypha. It is significant that the Peshitta, the Syriac Bible of the second century A.D., did not contain them. The Jewish community, in the main, rejected the apocrypha as seen by the fact that the Council of Jamnia (ca. A.D. 90) recognized the sacred Hebrew canon as we have it today, without the apocrypha. Again, it was not until the Council of Trent that the Catholic Church, the big promoter of the apocrypha today, declared the apocrypha as scripture (1545-1563 A. D.)

One of the main and, I believe, most conclusive arguments against the acceptance of the apocrypha is, again, the fact that not one reference is made to these books by an inspired writer of the New Testament. It is also of interest that the prolific writer and Jewish historian Josephus who also frequently quoted the Hebrews books, did not reference the apocrypha (Josephus lived during the first century).

Beloved, the sixty-six books found in standard translations (such as the King James, American Standard, etc.) have the stamp of antiquity, authenticity, and canonicity. These books have stood the test and scrutiny of time. These books are profitable because they constitute scripture (see 2 Tim 3:16-17). While the apocrypha is of help in providing some historic information during the time called the "the period between the Testaments," (ca. 400 B. C. - 01 A. D), these books are not inspired and should not be considered part of the sacred text, the Bible. (Be sure to study the material in Bible Truths regarding the inception and production of the Bible. Go to the Archives page, click on the below "back" hyperlink, and click on "The Bible" in the Subject Index box.)

Source: www.bibletruths.net
 
Greetings Bill,

To save me a lot of typing please read the following, it clearly covers both arguments for and against the Apocrypha being accepted as part of the sacred text.

Truth about the Apocrypha

The books which comprise our Bible, sixty-six in number, from Genesis through Revelation, have been subjected to every internal and external test imaginable.
Their authenticity and canonicity have been reliably established. There are other books, however, which some believe should be considered part of the Bible. These books are called the Apocrypha. The word "apocrypha" is of Greek origin, actually being simply a transliteration of the original Greek word. "Apocrypha" is used in Mark 4: 22 and is commonly translated "secret." The evolution of the word "apocrypha" simply meaning secret or hidden to how it is commonly used today is of interest and provides a look at the climate that fostered the "apocrypha books." It appears that in the beginning, "apocrypha" was a term used to designate religious books that were circulating among the inner circle of a group and were kept hidden from the public because people at large rejected the authority of these books. There was the thinking that these books contained information that was esoteric and only for special ones; hence, the evolved term "apocrypha" evoked the mysterious and clandestine.

The apocryphal books. In the main, when the Apocrypha is mentioned the fourteen or fifteen books of the "Old Testament" are meant. However, there are other writings that are known as the New Testament apocrypha. Apocrypha also can have reference to a book whose origin was doubtful or unknown. The "Old Testament apocrypha" are believed to have been written during the period of 200 B.C. to 100 A.D. Some of perhaps the better known are "The Wisdom of Solomon," The Additions to the Book of Esther," and "The First and Second Maccabees." The "Catholic Bible" often has twelve of these apocryphal books interspersed among and attached to the undisputed thirty-nine books of the Hebrew scriptures, I understand.

Involved in a study of the apocrypha is the matter of canonicity. The term "canon" is from the Greek word kanon. Kanon, based on its derivation means a rod or measuring device and came to mean a norm or rule. Canon came to be used to denote the recognized books of sacred writings and was thus used in the fourth century. The act, fact, and science of canonicity or canonizing is a fascinating study (the terms apocrypha and canonicity are basically antithetical and opposite in meaning, climate, and concept).

The history of the Hebrews does not provide us with real insight as to their process of canonicity or how they determined the authenticity of a book considered as scripture. It is evident, however, that they did have "an act" that so recognized and declared a book as sacred 2 Kings 22: 8 One reason we do not have much insight as to the science of canonicity during the time of the writing and acceptance of the thirty-nine Hebrew books that comprise what man calls the "Old Testament" is because there really was no need. I say this because of the strict practices of the Jews relative to the writings of those men such as Moses, Jeremiah, Isaiah, etc. whose inspiration was established. The writings were carefully protected and greatly valued (cp. Deut 31: 9, Deut 24-26, I Kings 8:9 ). Copies of the original writings were made in the most controlled atmosphere possible and imaginable (cp. Prov 25:1 ). There were no translations, as such, until about 270 B. C.; hence, corruption from translation was non-existent.

Analysis and "canonicity" determination relative to the twenty-seven books of the New Testament involved both internal and external considerations. The authorship, style of writing, general content, and the extant view of the book by contemporaries were all considerations used in pronouncing a New Testament book as part of the sacred canon. A New Testament book could also be used to verify the canonicity of a Hebrew book, once the authenticity of the New Testament was clearly established. For instance, about thirty-one of the Hebrew books are quoted and acknowledged by New Testament writers (the fact that eight out of the 39 are not quoted does not mean they are non-canonical).

Just as was the case with the thirty-nine Hebrew books found in our Bibles, the New Testament books were known by their contemporaries as bearing the vestiges of inspiration (2 Peter1: 21; 2 Tim 3:16-17). In about the year A.D. 90, the Jewish Council of Jamnia ruled though a process of debate, examination, and canonicity that the Hebrew canon should consist of the thirty-nine books commonly found in such translations as the King James (Answers to Tough Questions, by Josh McDowell and Don Stewart, pg. 37). In 327 A.D., Athanasius of Alexandria published a list of twenty-seven New Testament books that were recognized in his day as authentic (How we got the Bible, by Neil Lightfoot, pg. 85). These are the same twenty-seven books as are found in our standard New Testaments today. These sixty-six books commonly comprising our Bibles all had the requisite recognition by those who were in a position to really know as to the acceptance of the claims of these books.

For instance, Paul wrote: "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write you are the commandments of the Lord" (I Cor 14:37 ). (The apocrypha, by contrast, make more of a claim of simply being history books rather than being inspired of God, cp. II Maccabees 2:23, 15:38.)

Arguments in favor of the apocrypha
. First, it might come as a surprise but the Catholic Church that is so instrumental in presenting the apocrypha books as part of the sacred canon did not so recognize these apocrypha books until about fifteen hundred years removed from the First Century. It was in the Council of Trent, 1545-1563 A.D. that the Roman Catholic Church declared the apocrypha as canonical, as far as the Catholic Church was concerned.

There have been many arguments advanced in favor of the apocrypha. The first and foremost of which is based on the first translation made of the Hebrew scriptures, the Septuagint, translated into Greek in about 270 B.C. More of the extant apocrypha books began to be added to the Septuagint as time progressed, that is, to some of the copies of the Septuagint. Since Jesus and New Testament writers often quoted from the Septuagint when quoting Hebrew scriptures (some say that 300 out of the 350 quotations of Hebrew scriptures by Jesus are from the Septuagint), we are told that such a fact proves that the apocrypha books are to be accepted as part of the Bible today. We have noticed that just about all the Hebrew books are referenced by New Testament writers; however, while Jesus and the New Testament writers often quoted from the books of the "Old Testament," even from the Septuagint that had some versions containing apocrypha books, they never once quoted from the apocrypha books.

In attempting to validate the apocrypha, it is stated that the "Church fathers" referenced the apocrypha books. It is true that Iranaeus, Tertullian, and Clement of Alexandria recognized the apocrypha, as did the Syriac Church in the fourth century. Augustine, who presided over the Councils at Hippo and Carthage reportedly also held these books as inspired. Later, though, Augustine is said to have rejected these books as outside the canon and inferior to the Hebrew scriptures. Also, just as many leading men in the time period rejected the apocrypha and claimed that they were spurious, such leaders as Origen and Jerome. The mentioned Syriac Church waited until the fourth century A.D. to officially accept the apocrypha. It is significant that the Peshitta, the Syriac Bible of the second century A.D., did not contain them. The Jewish community, in the main, rejected the apocrypha as seen by the fact that the Council of Jamnia (ca. A.D. 90) recognized the sacred Hebrew canon as we have it today, without the apocrypha. Again, it was not until the Council of Trent that the Catholic Church, the big promoter of the apocrypha today, declared the apocrypha as scripture (1545-1563 A. D.)

One of the main and, I believe, most conclusive arguments against the acceptance of the apocrypha is, again, the fact that not one reference is made to these books by an inspired writer of the New Testament. It is also of interest that the prolific writer and Jewish historian Josephus who also frequently quoted the Hebrews books, did not reference the apocrypha (Josephus lived during the first century).

Beloved, the sixty-six books found in standard translations (such as the King James, American Standard, etc.) have the stamp of antiquity, authenticity, and canonicity. These books have stood the test and scrutiny of time. These books are profitable because they constitute scripture (see 2 Tim 3:16-17). While the apocrypha is of help in providing some historic information during the time called the "the period between the Testaments," (ca. 400 B. C. - 01 A. D), these books are not inspired and should not be considered part of the sacred text, the Bible. (Be sure to study the material in Bible Truths regarding the inception and production of the Bible. Go to the Archives page, click on the below "back" hyperlink, and click on "The Bible" in the Subject Index box.)

Source: www.bibletruths.net
By whose authority were the books removed ? This is the question.

When was the King James version written, and please explain to all who authorized it's writing and why. These things are important
 
GreetingsBill,

It is the bottom line, providing we are born again from above, washed and regenerated believers.

John 3:1-21, 1 Peter 3:21.

All scripture is God breathed and provides us with all guidance and instructions to Salvation.

Shalom
Your own words . All Scripture is God breathed and provides us with guidence and instruction to Salvation.

Including those books that were removed by the Protestants.

Your own words proves my point , i rest my case
 
The word "Protestant" comes from the word "protest". What were we protesting?

The ongoing Roman Catholic CORRUPTION of the simplicity of the Gospel, and the Roman Catholic denial of Eph 2:8,9 (How a person is born again).

All the rest of their Roman Catholic LIES are background noise in comparison.
 
The ongoing Roman Catholic CORRUPTION of the simplicity of the Gospel, and the Roman Catholic denial of Eph 2:8,9 (How a person is born again).

All the rest of their Roman Catholic LIES are background noise in comparison.
When you were children , you act like a child and think like a child.

Are the Protestants still children?

When will those who dwell in the past grow up ?
 
By whose authority were the books removed ? This is the question.

When was the King James version written, and please explain to all who authorized it's writing and why.

The original KJV INCLUDED The "Deuterocanonicals" which were judged late in the 19th Century to be worthless spiritually (except that they do provide one of the "Proof Texts" for Rome's "Purgatorial sanctification" LIE).
 
When you were children , you act like a child and think like a child.

Are the Protestants still children?

When will those who dwell in the past grow up ?

And, of course this has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING, so totally worthless rhetoric.
 
By whose authority were the books removed ? This is the question.

When was the King James version written, and please explain to all who authorized it's writing and why. These things are important


The removal of the books was done, first by the RCC, who later chose to add them, why the RCC removed them in the first place I am not aware, you may like to enlighten me Bill.

As for the removal by the none RCC church, I gave the details of this in a previous post in this thread.
 
When you were children , you act like a child and think like a child.

Are the Protestants still children?

When will those who dwell in the past grow up ?


The same can be said for the RCC/CC Bill, so this is silly talk.

The Truth is in the Word Bill, we agree, that is good.

The Truth in the Word was before the RCC.
 
Your own words . All Scripture is God breathed and provides us with guidence and instruction to Salvation.

Including those books that were removed by the Protestants.

Your own words proves my point , i rest my case


There is a difference Bill, a difference between authentic scripture and that which has been classed as church notes which part of the apocrypha is said to be.

Canon of scripture may be generally described as the "collection of books which form the original and authoritative written rule of the faith and practice of the Christian Church," i.e. the Old and New Testaments.

The word canon , in classical Greek, is properly a straight rod , "a rule" in the widest sense, and especially in the phrases "the rule of the Church," "the rule of faith," "the rule of truth," The first direct application of the term canon to the Scriptures seems to be in the verses of Amphilochius (cir. 380 A.D.), where the word indicates the rule by which the contents of the Bible must be determined, and thus secondarily an index of the constituent books.

The uncanonical books were described simply as "those without" or "those uncanonized."

The canonical books were also called "books of the testament," and Jerome styled the whole collection by the striking name of "the holy library," which happily expresses the unity and variety of the Bible. After the Maccabean persecution the history of the formation of the Canon is merged in the history of its contents. The Old Testament appears from that time as a whole. The complete Canon of the New Testament, as commonly received at present, was ratified at the third Council of Carthage (A.D. 397), and from that time was accepted throughout the Latin Church.

Respecting the books of which the Canon is composed, BIBLE. (The books of Scripture were not made canonical by act of any council, but the council gave its sanction to the results of long and careful investigations as to what books were really of divine authority and expressed the universally-accepted decisions of the church. The Old Testament Canon is ratified by the fact that the present Old Testament books were those accepted in the time of Christ and endorsed by him, and that of 275 quotations of the Old Testament in the New, no book out of the Canon is quoted from except perhaps the word of Enoch in Jude. --ED.)


On the basis of what I read here Bill, bearing in mind that the Catholic Church was founded with/by Constantine, who was Emperor of the Roman Empire from AD 306-337, canonisation was finalised at the time of the early RCC. Yet we find the RCC accepted the Apocrypha and then rejected for hundreds of years. You ask on whose authority was the apocrypha removed the answer remains, the RCC first, although they were part of it in the first place, the the Protestants afterwards. So to the Protestants, using the method of canonisation created in the early RCC era, the apocrypha was not canonisable, seems pretty clear to me Bill.

I do not think the discussion is worth continuing, evidence after evidence has been given to you by many, yet you reject is, you reject it all.

Shalom
 
There is a difference Bill, a difference between authentic scripture and that which has been classed as church notes which part of the apocrypha is said to be.

Canon of scripture may be generally described as the "collection of books which form the original and authoritative written rule of the faith and practice of the Christian Church," i.e. the Old and New Testaments.

The word canon , in classical Greek, is properly a straight rod , "a rule" in the widest sense, and especially in the phrases "the rule of the Church," "the rule of faith," "the rule of truth," The first direct application of the term canon to the Scriptures seems to be in the verses of Amphilochius (cir. 380 A.D.), where the word indicates the rule by which the contents of the Bible must be determined, and thus secondarily an index of the constituent books.

The uncanonical books were described simply as "those without" or "those uncanonized."

The canonical books were also called "books of the testament," and Jerome styled the whole collection by the striking name of "the holy library," which happily expresses the unity and variety of the Bible. After the Maccabean persecution the history of the formation of the Canon is merged in the history of its contents. The Old Testament appears from that time as a whole. The complete Canon of the New Testament, as commonly received at present, was ratified at the third Council of Carthage (A.D. 397), and from that time was accepted throughout the Latin Church.

Respecting the books of which the Canon is composed, BIBLE. (The books of Scripture were not made canonical by act of any council, but the council gave its sanction to the results of long and careful investigations as to what books were really of divine authority and expressed the universally-accepted decisions of the church. The Old Testament Canon is ratified by the fact that the present Old Testament books were those accepted in the time of Christ and endorsed by him, and that of 275 quotations of the Old Testament in the New, no book out of the Canon is quoted from except perhaps the word of Enoch in Jude. --ED.)


On the basis of what I read here Bill, bearing in mind that the Catholic Church was founded with/by Constantine, who was Emperor of the Roman Empire from AD 306-337, canonisation was finalised at the time of the early RCC. Yet we find the RCC accepted the Apocrypha and then rejected for hundreds of years. You ask on whose authority was the apocrypha removed the answer remains, the RCC first, although they were part of it in the first place, the the Protestants afterwards. So to the Protestants, using the method of canonisation created in the early RCC era, the apocrypha was not canonisable, seems pretty clear to me Bill.

I do not think the discussion is worth continuing, evidence after evidence has been given to you by many, yet you reject is, you reject it all.

Shalom
There is a difference , you are right . What is authentic to God , and what is authentic to man.

Hebrew scripture ( the Old Testiment )has been around much longer . And it is the Word given to the Hebrews.

The Christian Bible is a little different , yet much of the Hebrew texts were included in the origional manuscripts .

But now , i guess , we are much wiser . And can discern all God has in mind for us.

I think it funny , with the clarity on todays " wisdom, people dont know how to reach out to bring more into the church.

Does it occur to anyone, try telling the young about the beauty of the Spirit. And let that Fire of the Holy Spirit out instead of being locked in
 
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